Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

[sintzu]

U6 : I think Goku's fights with Botamo and Frost were better in the manga while Piccolo's fight with Frost was better in the anime. Vegeta's fight with Frost was better in the manga but his fight with Maggeta was better in the anime. I think Vegeta's fights with Cabba and Hit were overall equal in both. Goku's fight with Hit was also good in both but I prefer the manga's version because the Kaioken messed up the power levels (they're not perfect in the manga either).

Zamasu : Black's character in the anime is 100% better than the manga, I think most will agree on this, not just because of the way he's written but the voice acting Nozawa does brings it to life in a way the page never could. If you've been waiting for a Vegeta led story then the manga is where you'll find it, unlike the anime where he's sidelined, he's front and center in the manga but the price for that is little to no action from Goku and Trunks.

What I'd like to know is why is there such a difference between the 2 Zamasu arcs.

Did Toei decide to put Goku front and Center because they didn't think Vegeta could hold his own arc ?
Did Toyotaru decide to put Vegeta front and center because he didn't want to copy Toei ? Or was it because that's what he got from Toriyama ?
Or was it Toriyama's outline ? was it so vague that they could do whatever they wanted ?

Was Toriyama's outline something like : Trunks escapes after lsoing to Black then he's tested by Goku. Beerus kills a Zamasu after figuring out he's behind it all. Heroes fight and lose to Black and Zamasu. Heroes go back and train then fight again and win before Zeno destroys everything ?

I don't think Toriyama's outline was that vague so the more likely case is that Toei didn't trust Vegeta enough so they got Toriyama's OK to use Goku and Trunks instead cause one is the franchise's main character and the other is the games' main character. If that's the case then I'm more happy about the manga being a thing cause we'd never know what Toriyama was writing. maybe that's why we have the manga in the 1st place, maybe they told him ahead of time that they'd be changing his stories up so he agreed on the condition of there being another way for fans to know what his original vision is.

[Totamo]

Passion work or not, Toriyama is the only one who truly understands Dragon Ball. I enjoy the later works but it's undeniable there's much more fan service than there was back in the time. That doesn't mean Toriyama didn't give fanservice, but nowadays it's much easier to know what fans want, which is probably something Toriyama doesn't know/care as he's from a different generation.

By the way GT, which I don't like much, didn't have much fan-service (unless I'm completely wrong, I never felt like it capitalized on fans or else we would have seen Gotenks, SSJ3 Vegeta/Gohan and SSJ4 Gohan, and Broly return instead of #17)
No wonder GT is the show with more fan-mangas and more fan-created forms.

Actually it did, remember when it released all the villains form hell? Or SSj4 Gogeta, Gogeta period,

Gogeta actually makes sense though... It really does.. and the Super 17 arc was all about old villains returning literally they contained it to a single arc that was only a few episodes long. You would be hard pressed to find anyone that thinks the Super 17 arc is representative of the entire series.

Who said fanservice can't make sense?

Fanservice are things that have no relevance to the plot and are only their for fans.

[TheMikado]

Actually it did, remember when it released all the villains form hell? Or SSj4 Gogeta, Gogeta period,

Gogeta actually makes sense though... It really does.. and the Super 17 arc was all about old villains returning literally they contained it to a single arc that was only a few episodes long. You would be hard pressed to find anyone that thinks the Super 17 arc is representative of the entire series.

Who said fanservice can't make sense?

Fanservice are things that have no relevance to the plot and are only their for fans.

What better option did they have besides merging into Gogeta? Gogeta was plot relevant, it was they're trump card and not sure it can be called fan service if it's never been done in the series before.

[Freeza9000]

I'm just gonna quote myself from another thread
[spoiler]Seriously, both Zamasu and Black arguing against each other has got to be one of the most generic things I've ever seen. While in the anime, it successfully showed how Black's teamwork with himself is dangerously effective whenever in sync with Future Zamasu. What made the Zamasu and Black tagteam so great was that they never argued and it's almost like they could tell what they are about to do. How they coordinate their opponents also makes them formidable in their own rights. It also conveys how Zamasu trusts, reveres, and loves only himself. [/spoiler]

[Basako]

First, it's true the anime is the main product and the Manga a side product. The anime has the advantage to be released first with all the element of surprise for it. When people say Black's identity wasn't a surprise in the Manga, well, in on hand it's true, we all knew who he was but for an out source, not for itself. If it was just for it, I think it was revealed in chapter 18, that would have been 5 months of mystery if we hadn't know. People also say we were fed up the way we were told, well, the anime just told the mystery too, Black just told them that he was Zamasu. I even prefer how they put all the pieces together in the Manga to make the deduction.

Now, let's talk about the supposed originality of the anime. It understands originality in a bad way. Original is not just to introduce new random hyping elements, some of those have been terribly bad. Examples, the draconian aura they gave Goku and Beerus just because yes. Or the fight with Black, the hole in the sky, why was that? Was it because Black was very strong? Then what about merged Zamasu? That wasn't even the worst, clones of Black started popping out of it!! Like what?? That's bad and untalented writing. Same goes for Trunks's unexplained transformation, it's new but nonsensical and worse for being a major plot element.

Now the manga. First, it's not Toyotaro's job to introduce new plot elements to the story, he could just have given Gohan a purple transformation for that, but that would have been bad. For now, we have Toriyama for the main withing and introduce the new elements, at least he respects that. That doesn't mean he is not original, he is in the space he's got for that, how he handles fights and character interactions. Well, that's his job and he does it more than fine. He is even involved in design creation now, and quite good.

The anime has also had a unique chance to bring legit new stuff that any fan would dream, but they have mostly wasted it. I mean the filler content. The water goo and parasite for the examples, which they have nothing original about them as concept, but that's not the problem. The development of the stories was not good, like Watagash and Barry turning into all kind of different monsters. Why? Because yes, that's the answers we can expect from the anime.

Not to forget the total abuse the anime is making of using the dragon balls over and over for stupid reasons, not even considering that they have a time limitation that has made impossible for Bra to be born in her birth date. In the manga is fine.

For these reasons and more I go with the Manga and if I have to choose a canon, I have no doubt, the one better written, that makes far more sense and awesome fights.

[Araki]

U6 : I think Goku's fights with Botamo and Frost were better in the manga while Piccolo's fight with Frost was better in the anime. Vegeta's fight with Frost was better in the manga but his fight with Maggeta was better in the anime. I think Vegeta's fights with Cabba and Hit were overall equal in both. Goku's fight with Hit was also good in both but I prefer the manga's version because the Kaioken messed up the power levels (they're not perfect in the manga either).

Zamasu : Black's character in the anime is 100% better than the manga, I think most will agree on this, not just because of the way he's written but the voice acting Nozawa does brings it to life in a way the page never could. If you've been waiting for a Vegeta led story then the manga is where you'll find it, unlike the anime where he's sidelined, he's front and center in the manga but the price for that is little to no action from Goku and Trunks.

What I'd like to know is why is there such a difference between the 2 Zamasu arcs.

Did Toei decide to put Goku front and Center because they didn't think Vegeta could hold his own arc ?
Did Toyotaru decide to put Vegeta front and center because he didn't want to copy Toei ? Or was it because that's what he got from Toriyama ?
Or was it Toriyama's outline ? was it so vague that they could do whatever they wanted ?

Was Toriyama's outline something like : Trunks escapes after lsoing to Black then he's tested by Goku. Beerus kills a Zamasu after figuring out he's behind it all. Heroes fight and lose to Black and Zamasu. Heroes go back and train then fight again and win before Zeno destroys everything ?

I don't think Toriyama's outline was that vague so the more likely case is that Toei didn't trust Vegeta enough so they got Toriyama's OK to use Goku and Trunks instead cause one is the franchise's main character and the other is the games' main character. If that's the case then I'm more happy about the manga being a thing cause we'd never know what Toriyama was writing. maybe that's why we have the manga in the 1st place, maybe they told him ahead of time that they'd be changing his stories up so he agreed on the condition of there being another way for fans to know what his original vision is.

You have a very wild imagination if you actually believe any of that, lol. That kind of thing reeks of "i love Vegeta so i hope Toriyama wrote this".
It's well known at this point that Toyotaro has been coming up with his own ideas since the previous arc and he was even told to do more of that. That can't be conveniently ignored. I just can't believe some people still cling to the notion that the manga has Toriyama's original vision or other BS like that. He was never this bad.

[sintzu]

It's well known at this point that Toyotaro has been coming up with his own ideas since the previous arc and he was even told to do more of that.

That can't be conveniently ignored.

I just can't believe some people still cling to the notion that the manga has Toriyama's original vision or other BS like that. He was never this bad.

Coming up with his own ideas is one thing, changing the main character is another. Toyotaru said Goku is his favorite character so why would he sideline him this much if he had a main role in Toriyama's outline ?

Another thing that can't be ignored is him saying he follows Toriyama's outline pretty close. If Toriyama's outline is what we got in the anime then what he's doing is anything but close.

That kind of thing reeks of "I hate Vegeta so I hope Toriyama didn't write this".

[dbzfan7]

The anime's idea of having Trunks do stuff is better than the manga but the way they fantastically fail on every conceivable level to prevent the audience from wanting to bash their faces against a chainsaw in regards to how these powers ups work and how Trunks gets theme is where I have to pick the lesser of two evils here.

I'd rather take Trunks doing nothing like he does in the Cell arc then doing stuff that makes me smack someone in the face.

That's my big issue. On the one hand I feel Trunks in his own arc in the manga, doesn't really feel as important as he should. So it kinda feels like a let down how he's more sidelined. On the other hand he's so much grander in the anime, but feels like such a Gary Stu with all the bullshit. This makes it really hard for me to choose which I'd prefer. The more logical but less satisfying context wise, or the more satisfying, but ultimately far more frustrating version.

Though for me Black is definitely more entertaining in the anime, but I really like what the manga added with SSJ and his growth.

[SansrivaaL]

Both the anime and manga has their ups and downs.
Like how the manga showed Black going SSJ1/2 but the anime handling Black's personality better, manga Black is a loudass crybaby that complains and flips over everything, anime Black had the personality of a OP villain that will never lose (well he basically never lost, being close to losing means gaining a huge powerup and he instantly turns the tables around) the moment FTrunks punched him in the gut and he laughed it off made it certain that "oh.... shit bout to go down"
Anime handled some events better, like having Black fight our 3 main characters for the arc, manga skipped Goku having a fight with Black which was weird, why was he ok with Vegeta handling Black 2x? but I guess its because Goku is the only one that has a chance against Zamasu via mafuuba so he let Vegeta handle Black, but still, a fight between Goku and Black would have been awesome.
At least by far no Super Saiyan Rage, and I hope Toyo keeps it that way, then again I dont know what I'm more fine with, Vegeta getting shoved up our asses or Future Trunks, really cant enjoy the manga that much cause of too much Vegeta, tho I find it funny that Zamasu is sort of the leader of the two so ofc the leader handles Goku, but still.
Lastly that SSJG Vegeta.... its so horrible, the guy was already slim compared to Goku, going SSJG only made him a man stick.

[TheMathemagician]

Both the anime and manga has their ups and downs.
Like how the manga showed Black going SSJ1/2 but the anime handling Black's personality better, manga Black is a loudass crybaby that complains and flips over everything, anime Black had the personality of a OP villain that will never lose (well he basically never lost, being close to losing means gaining a huge powerup and he instantly turns the tables around) the moment FTrunks punched him in the gut and he laughed it off made it certain that "oh.... shit bout to go down"
Anime handled some events better, like having Black fight our 3 main characters for the arc, manga skipped Goku having a fight with Black which was weird, why was he ok with Vegeta handling Black 2x? but I guess its because Goku is the only one that has a chance against Zamasu via mafuuba so he let Vegeta handle Black, but still, a fight between Goku and Black would have been awesome.
At least by far no Super Saiyan Rage, and I hope Toyo keeps it that way, then again I dont know what I'm more fine with, Vegeta getting shoved up our asses or Future Trunks, really cant enjoy the manga that much cause of too much Vegeta, tho I find it funny that Zamasu is sort of the leader of the two so ofc the leader handles Goku, but still.
Lastly that SSJG Vegeta.... its so horrible, the guy was already slim compared to Goku, going SSJG only made him a man stick.

Isn't this new chapter pretty much Vegeta vs. Black III though? It's gonna suck for me if Goku and Black never scrap even once in the manga. Hell, the two barely acknowledge each other. Yeah, I too hope Toyo doesn't try any of that stuff with Trunks, otherwise it'll be pretty bad. More Vegeta isn't necessarily bad, but at the cost of not having Goku fight Black once is something I'm not a fan of.

[SansrivaaL]

Isn't this new chapter pretty much Vegeta vs. Black III though? It's gonna suck for me if Goku and Black never scrap even once in the manga. Hell, the two barely acknowledge each other. Yeah, I too hope Toyo doesn't try any of that stuff with Trunks, otherwise it'll be pretty bad. More Vegeta isn't necessarily bad, but at the cost of not having Goku fight Black once is something I'm not a fan of.

They never will, Black and Zamasu already fused, unless the manga takes a different approach and somehow diffuses Black and Zamasu, we wont be seeing a Goku V Black at all.

[TheMathemagician]

Isn't this new chapter pretty much Vegeta vs. Black III though? It's gonna suck for me if Goku and Black never scrap even once in the manga. Hell, the two barely acknowledge each other. Yeah, I too hope Toyo doesn't try any of that stuff with Trunks, otherwise it'll be pretty bad. More Vegeta isn't necessarily bad, but at the cost of not having Goku fight Black once is something I'm not a fan of.

They never will, Black and Zamasu already fused, unless the manga takes a different approach and somehow diffuses Black and Zamasu, we wont be seeing a Goku V Black at all.

Yeah, that's probably one of the safer assumptions of this new chapter. It's really unfortunate, and really is a major downside to this saga for me. Black's characterization already made this saga worse than the anime for me, but Goku very likely not fighting Black even once would make things even worse. It's like I've said before, I don't mind Vegeta bigger role, but Vegeta vs. Black III while we haven't gotten a single fight between Goku and Black really brings it down for me.

[Gog]

Remember how God Goku was a 6 to Beerus' 10? Good luck and God fucking speed trying to make THAT work with anything from Super.

It's simple really, the '6' is Goku's full potential. He just has to train to get the full power of SSG, something which will take him years and years to accomplish.

Also for the thread;

I enjoy the anime, and I like Black's character in the anime...So my answer should be obvious.

[Boo Machine]

Honestly, if not for the small event changes that happen in the manga (Like SSG still being around) I wouldn't even bother with the manga. The manga just feels like a summary of events while I view the anime as a more complete experience. How you feel about the experience it another matter though. They obviously range from enjoyment to frustration. Understandably so.

If Super was just this Manga as it is right now, with no anime, I would not being enjoying Super nearly as much. I hope I don't come off like I'm just bashing the Manga though. I do like it and it's got a few small story details that the anime probably should have had. I just don't feel like it stands up on it's own.

[Basako]

So the Manga changes? Well, at least we know Toriyama approved this "changes", if they really are, which you don't even know, SSG included. There is a high chance that this things were in Toriyama's plot too and the anime writers being the ones making the changes. Like we know they did not showing Black's SS or, probably, making Trunks perform the Mafuba.

And there's nothing wrong with the caracterization of Black in the Manga. He was shown as a ruthless killer against Trunks, we've seen Zamasu's evolution in the present until Beerus killed him and now again we are seeing him as a ruthless killer with Gowasu. His face looks totally like an evil Goku, exactly as he is supposed to. Toyotaro is doing great.

I do give a big minus to the Manga for not making a Goku - Black fight. That's a big miss, considering Toyotaro is the one making cool fights nowadays.

I'd like if Trunks had had a legit power up. But that what we had in the anime, no way, better none. If the Manga goes with that, I wont like it at all. Trunks will probably have the final move with the sword anyway.

[Yomi]

I'd like if Trunks had had a legit power up. But that what we had in the anime, no way, better none. If the Manga goes with that, I wont like it at all. Trunks will probably have the final move with the sword anyway.

Nah, Trunks is just a plot device for Vegeta fanservice, Gonna wait and See Vegeta destroy Zamasu, then do "Big Bang Erase" on Zamasu's eclipse.

[Basako]

I'd like if Trunks had had a legit power up. But that what we had in the anime, no way, better none. If the Manga goes with that, I wont like it at all. Trunks will probably have the final move with the sword anyway.

Nah, Trunks is just a plot device for Vegeta fanservice, Gonna wait and See Vegeta destroy Zamasu, then do "Big Bang Erase" on Zamasu's eclipse.

Vegeta will even kick Zeno's rugby head far to other universe.

[Doctor.]

So the Manga changes? Well, at least we know Toriyama approved this "changes", if they really are, which you don't even know, SSG included. There is a high chance that this things were in Toriyama's plot too and the anime writers being the ones making the changes. Like we know they did not showing Black's SS or, probably, making Trunks perform the Mafuba.

Being Toriyama approved don't make them good ideas.

[Basako]

So the Manga changes? Well, at least we know Toriyama approved this "changes", if they really are, which you don't even know, SSG included. There is a high chance that this things were in Toriyama's plot too and the anime writers being the ones making the changes. Like we know they did not showing Black's SS or, probably, making Trunks perform the Mafuba.

Being Toriyama approved don't make them good ideas.

I didn't say that, it's just something I wanted to point out. What I also see is that the anime is the one full of awful ideas, not the Manga.

[Doctor.]

So the Manga changes? Well, at least we know Toriyama approved this "changes", if they really are, which you don't even know, SSG included. There is a high chance that this things were in Toriyama's plot too and the anime writers being the ones making the changes. Like we know they did not showing Black's SS or, probably, making Trunks perform the Mafuba.

Being Toriyama approved don't make them good ideas.

I didn't say that, it's just something I wanted to point out. What I see is that the anime is the one full of awful ideas, not the Manga.

They both have awful ideas because the problem is Toriyama's ideas, not the manga exclusive or anime exclusive ones.