Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

[ABED]

You don't need to be an actor to judge a performance just like you don't need to be a chef to judge food.

I never claimed you can’t judge a performance. I said that it’s stupid to judge a person’s talent just because you personally don’t like a performance.

How else would you judge it? Is it fine to judge the person's talent based on a large number of performances?

[WittyUsername]

You don't need to be an actor to judge a performance just like you don't need to be a chef to judge food.

I never claimed you can’t judge a performance. I said that it’s stupid to judge a person’s talent just because you personally don’t like a performance.

Again, what are we supposed to judge their ability by, if not their work?

The thread title is literally asking for someone's judgment on the quality of the dubs. If you have issues with that, take it up with the OP.

The thread is me asking about people’s personal opinions on which dub is better. It was never meant to be a debate about whether or not these actors are talented, especially when both dubs are made with the same people.

The quality of the dub is inherently linked to the ability of the actors in the dub. This is a television show. Actors are an important part of that. The quality of those actors is directly connected to the quality of the show.

How about don’t try to judge their ability at all, and simply say whether you like or dislike their performance? We aren’t judges at a talent show.

Seriously, this argument is so tedious. Is it really that difficult to understand that you can dislike a performance without trying to determine whether or not a person is talented, or that there’s no reason to come up with theories about why other people like what you don’t like?

[Kunzait_83]

The thread title is literally asking for someone's judgment on the quality of the dubs. If you have issues with that, take it up with the OP.

WittyUserName IS the OP.

You seem to be under the impression that because you think a certain way, that some dubbing company should specifically pander to your wishes.

Where did I say that FUNimation MUST listen to ME, random nobody on the internet? This thread, ALL of this forum, is purely about OUR OPINIONS and viewpoints. I'm simply giving mine: I'm not giving FUNimation a "command" or "order" as if I'm the emperor of all anime dubbing.

I think these guys are bad actors: I base that opinion on 20 years worth of their performing in these roles. They're certainly bad at acting IN DRAGON BALL at any rate. If it were up to me (which it isn't and I NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS) I'd get the fuck rid of them all and recast from the ground up from scratch. That's just MY take. I cannot POSSIBLY make this ANY clearer that I'm not forcing my thoughts onto other people or proclaiming that what I say somehow goes.

This is starting to get incredibly awkward and befuddling that you'd even MAKE this kind of logical leap (that me voicing my personal opinion = my demanding that FUNi does things a certain way). I'm simply at a loss here at what your issue even IS, other than you just don't like the general tone that myself and Kamiccolo are taking and are interpreting us saying what we think as "imposing it as fact": which again, is something I'm getting LONG sick and tired of having to defend or argue against in general around here.

ALL of us are WELL aware that we're ONLY expressing our own personal viewpoints in like 95% of these discussions: no one here is under ANY delusions that what they say will have ANY impact whatsoever on FUNimation's decisions. That's not what any of this is about: this is about people chipping in and comparing what they think and how they perceive these things amongst one another. That's it.

[WittyUsername]

You don't need to be an actor to judge a performance just like you don't need to be a chef to judge food.

I never claimed you can’t judge a performance. I said that it’s stupid to judge a person’s talent just because you personally don’t like a performance.

How else would you judge it? Is it fine to judge the person's talent based on a large number of performances?

Judge the performance itself. Don’t try to make statements about whether or not the actor behind the performance is talented. It’s that simple.

[ABED]

How about don’t try to judge their ability at all, and simply say whether you like or dislike their performance? We aren’t judges at a talent show.

A distinction without a difference.

Judge the performance itself. Don’t try to make statements about whether or not the actor behind the performance is talented. It’s that simple.

What's wrong with judging whether someone has talent as an actor?

[WittyUsername]

The thread title is literally asking for someone's judgment on the quality of the dubs. If you have issues with that, take it up with the OP.

WittyUserName IS the OP.

You seem to be under the impression that because you think a certain way, that some dubbing company should specifically pander to your wishes.

Where did I say that FUNimation MUST listen to ME, random nobody on the internet? This thread, ALL of this forum, is purely about OUR OPINIONS and viewpoints. I'm simply giving mine: I'm not giving FUNimation a "command" or "order" as if I'm the emperor of all anime dubbing.

I think these guys are bad actors: I base that opinion on 20 years worth of their performing in these roles. They're certainly bad at acting IN DRAGON BALL at any rate. If it were up to me (which it isn't and I NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS) I'd get the fuck rid of them all and recast from the ground up from scratch. That's just MY take. I cannot POSSIBLY make this ANY clearer that I'm not forcing my thoughts onto other people or proclaiming that what I say somehow goes.

This is starting to get incredibly awkward and befuddling that you'd even MAKE this kind of logical leap (that me voicing my personal opinion = my demanding that FUNi does things a certain way). I'm simply at a loss here at what your issue even IS, other than you just don't like the general tone that myself and Kamiccolo are taking and are interpreting us saying what we think as "imposing it as fact": which again, is something I'm getting LONG sick and tired of having to defend or argue against in general around here.

ALL of us are WELL aware that we're ONLY expressing our own personal viewpoints in like 95% of these discussions: no one here is under ANY delusions that what they say will have ANY impact whatsoever on FUNimation's decisions. That's not what any of this is about: this is about people chipping in and comparing what they think and how they perceive these things amongst one another. That's it.

Read your own posts. You’re the one who came up with the conspiracy theories about why these guys are still working, which suggests that you believe your opinion that they’re bad in these roles is fact.

[Kamiccolo9]

How about don’t try to judge their ability at all, and simply say whether you like or dislike their performance? We aren’t judges at a talent show.

Seriously, this argument is so tedious. Is it really that difficult to understand that you can dislike a performance without trying to determine whether or not a person is talented, or that there’s no reason to come up with theories about why other people like what you don’t like?

I trust you'll apply this same argument to people who think they are good actors, then.

Also, going by this logic, no one has any right to determine if food is good. If a contractor busts a hole in your roof, who are you to say he's not doing his job well?

This is ridiculous. The thread is literally asking for people's opinion of the two dubs' quality. You are literally asking people to offer which dub they judge to be better.

You're saying this is tedious? I suppose running in circles for a few hours does get old after awhile.

[WittyUsername]

How about don’t try to judge their ability at all, and simply say whether you like or dislike their performance? We aren’t judges at a talent show.

A distinction without a difference.

Judge the performance itself. Don’t try to make statements about whether or not the actor behind the performance is talented. It’s that simple.

What's wrong with judging whether someone has talent as an actor?

Maybe because our opinion is not fact, so a person could be talented to one person, and not be talented in the eyes of another person? I think it’s stupid to try and judge whether or not an actor as a whole is talented based on our personal feelings towards a performance. besides, regardless of what you think of their performances, the truth is that being able to put on several different voices, and matching lip flaps is probably some kind of talent, therefore, these guys technically do have talent in that regard.

[WittyUsername]

How about don’t try to judge their ability at all, and simply say whether you like or dislike their performance? We aren’t judges at a talent show.

Seriously, this argument is so tedious. Is it really that difficult to understand that you can dislike a performance without trying to determine whether or not a person is talented, or that there’s no reason to come up with theories about why other people like what you don’t like?

I trust you'll apply this same argument to people who think they are good actors, then.

Also, going by this logic, no one has any right to determine if food is good. If a contractor busts a hole in your roof, who are you to say he's not doing his job well?

This is ridiculous. The thread is literally asking for people's opinion of the two dubs' quality. You are literally asking people to offer which dub they judge to be better.

You're saying this is tedious? I suppose running in circles for a few hours does get old after awhile.

Here’s a newsflash for you; if a person is able to put on several different voices, and is capable of matching lip flaps, chances are that they probably would be considered talented to some extent to certain people. You personally liking or disliking a person’s performance doesn’t prove or negate anything they’re capable of doing.

You got that?

[Gligarman]

Here's the thing a lot of "fans" don't seem to understand. When you say that something isn't as bad as it use to be that doesn't automatically make it good. I'll be the first to admit that the dub isn't nearly as bad as it use to be but I still think it's far below the standards we should expect for one of the most popular anime in the world. I'm of the opinion that overall Dragon Ball has NEVER had a good English dub. Hell, I recently finished re-watching the original Dragon Ball series and every now and then I would flip to English out of morbid curiosity to see how they ruined my favorite moments.

I could literally go on for days about everything wrong with even the shortest of clips in that dub. Between the removal of dirty jokes, meta jokes, any reference to homosexuality, having Chris Sabat play the only prominent Black character in the whole damn show (from the people that brought you "Hold your fire! This man isn't Black!"), etc. At this point when I look at what I've seen from the Kai and Super dub do I see improvement? A bit, yes. But does that make either of them good? Absolutely not. They still can't seem to get into the mindset that maybe this Akira Toriyama guy knew what the hell he was doing.

I hate that Dragon Ball's localization has been subjected to such low standards.

[Kamiccolo9]

Here’s a newsflash for you; if a person is able to put on several different voices, and is capable of matching lip flaps, chances are that they probably would be considered talented to some extent to certain people. You personally liking or disliking a person’s performance doesn’t prove or negate anything they’re capable of doing.

You got that?

Sure they can do all that. Doesn't mean they are good at it.

I played Call of Duty with my brother yesterday. Got, like, 2 kills in a match. I guess you could say I have a talent for it.

[ABED]

I'm giving my opinion on their performance.

How about don’t try to judge their ability at all, and simply say whether you like or dislike their performance? We aren’t judges at a talent show.

A distinction without a difference.

Judge the performance itself. Don’t try to make statements about whether or not the actor behind the performance is talented. It’s that simple.

What's wrong with judging whether someone has talent as an actor?

Maybe because our opinion is not fact, so a person could be talented to one person, and not be talented in the eyes of another person? I think it’s stupid to try and judge whether or not an actor as a whole is talented based on our personal feelings towards a performance. besides, regardless of what you think of their performances, the truth is that being able to put on several different voices, and matching lip flaps is probably some kind of talent, therefore, these guys technically do have talent in that regard.

I'm not basing their overall talent by one performance, but their body of work.

Yes, I would say they are technically proficient, but that isn't the same as being a good voice actor. Being able to hit your mark and hold a prop in the same hand take after take doesn't make one a good film actor.

[WittyUsername]

Here’s a newsflash for you; if a person is able to put on several different voices, and is capable of matching lip flaps, chances are that they probably would be considered talented to some extent to certain people. You personally liking or disliking a person’s performance doesn’t prove or negate anything they’re capable of doing.

You got that?

Sure they can do all that. Doesn't mean they are good at it.

I played Call of Duty with my brother yesterday. Got, like, 2 kills in a match. I guess you could say I have a talent for it.

They’re not good at matching lip flaps?

[Zephyr]

Here’s a newsflash for you; if a person is able to put on several different voices, and is capable of matching lip flaps, chances are that they probably would be considered talented to some extent to certain people. You personally liking or disliking a person’s performance doesn’t prove or negate anything they’re capable of doing.

You got that?

Putting on voices and matching lip flaps say nothing about acting and performance. It is in the realm of acting and performance that they lack talent, as per the opinions of Kamiccolo, VegettoEX, Kunzait, and others (including myself).

And, seriously, I can put on a wide range of silly voices. That's not a high bar.

[ABED]

Being good at matching lip flaps is a low bar.

[WittyUsername]

I'm giving my opinion on their performance.

A distinction without a difference.

What's wrong with judging whether someone has talent as an actor?

Maybe because our opinion is not fact, so a person could be talented to one person, and not be talented in the eyes of another person? I think it’s stupid to try and judge whether or not an actor as a whole is talented based on our personal feelings towards a performance. besides, regardless of what you think of their performances, the truth is that being able to put on several different voices, and matching lip flaps is probably some kind of talent, therefore, these guys technically do have talent in that regard.

I'm not basing their overall talent by one performance, but their body of work.

Yes, I would say they are technically proficient, but that isn't the same as being a good voice actor. Being able to hit your mark and hold a prop in the same hand take after take doesn't make one a good film actor.

You don’t have to personally consider them to be good voice actors, but to say that they’re talentless “basement-level hacks” without backing up your statements is absurd. I don’t think Russell Crowe is a very good actor, but I’m not going to claim that he’s some “basement-level hack”.

[Kamiccolo9]

Here’s a newsflash for you; if a person is able to put on several different voices, and is capable of matching lip flaps, chances are that they probably would be considered talented to some extent to certain people. You personally liking or disliking a person’s performance doesn’t prove or negate anything they’re capable of doing.

You got that?

Sure they can do all that. Doesn't mean they are good at it.

I played Call of Duty with my brother yesterday. Got, like, 2 kills in a match. I guess you could say I have a talent for it.

They’re not good at matching lip flaps?

According to your own logic, that's impossible to say. Who are you to judge that they are good at it?

[WittyUsername]

Here’s a newsflash for you; if a person is able to put on several different voices, and is capable of matching lip flaps, chances are that they probably would be considered talented to some extent to certain people. You personally liking or disliking a person’s performance doesn’t prove or negate anything they’re capable of doing.

You got that?

Putting on voices and matching lip flaps say nothing about acting and performance. It is in the realm of acting and performance that they lack talent, as per the opinions of Kamiccolo, VegettoEX, Kunzait, and others (including myself).

And, seriously, I can put on a wide range of silly voices. That's not a high bar.

It would still suggest that they’re probably good at something, so therefore, saying that they’re “talentless-basement level hacks” probably isn’t a very reasonable assessment, especially when you’re not going to give any examples of why that’s the case.

[WittyUsername]

Sure they can do all that. Doesn't mean they are good at it.

I played Call of Duty with my brother yesterday. Got, like, 2 kills in a match. I guess you could say I have a talent for it.

They’re not good at matching lip flaps?

According to your own logic, that's impossible to say. Who are you to judge that they are good at it?

If the voices match the lip movements, many would argue that they’re technically good at that.

Seriously, why exactly are you so offended that I took issue with your immature statement about “basement-level hacks”?

[WittyUsername]

Being good at matching lip flaps is a low bar.

You could argue that voice acting in general is a low bar, given that you’re reading directly off a script, while sitting in one place.