Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 17 - Official Discussion Thread

[SupremeKai25]

I hate villains who acquire power through an item or wish or external means. I don't see Gomah as a real threat but just a temporary annoyance. For people to compare him to Jiren, is an insult to Jiren's hard work and determination.

Even if Daima ends with Gomah's defeat, I hope in the future we'll have someone later that's more intelligent and stronger like Mechikabura or Demigra or even the unknown demon that killed Jiren's parents.

A villain is supposed to be hated. If you only see the villain as a minor annoyance instead of a real threat, I would call that apathy and I would argue the villain failed.

Jiren was not a villain, but an antagonist. He is a hero of his own universe. Most villains in Dragon Ball steal others' power or use wishes to gain more power. All the villains in Super do so. Zamasu and Gas used the Dragon Balls to acquire more power, and Moro stole the life-force of other beings to become more powerful.

Maybe they can bring the Demon Realm back into Super later on, with a darker tone and a villain who exudes menace right from the beginning.

Even better, they can easily connect Moro to the Demon realm. He could be a special breed of demon, and given the nature of the Kais/Glinds, his conflict with the gods would have been even more ancient than we thought.

[IntangibleFancy]

Gomah is weird to be. He absolutely does NOT feel like a villain in any way. He feels like the “fake” villain or the right hand man, who gets killed by the real deal later on, like Paragus or Sorbet or Raspberry. I honestly expected Degusu to get the third eye, get high off of his new power up and just kill Gomah. I’m glad to have my expectations subverted and Gomah is actually entertaining too.

But It feels awkward to have him as the villain now. Especially when Degusu had motives on his own and the plot just abruptly yoinked him out of the way in like 8 minutes, and we still have Arinsu to deal with. He doesn’t even really seem that threatening with the third eye.

[YamiGoku]

I just hear this from a some one else: What if Goku makes a Genkidama with the energy of the demon realm, throws it at Goma, he bounces it back at Goku with the Third Eye and... you know, something happens...

[FortuneSSJ]

This Gomah third eye form is the kind of villain Toriyama's editors would call him out, because of how goofy he looks to be the final boss.

[fadeddreams5]

Personally, I prefer Gomah over Jiren or Zamasu. The fact that he’s an obvious nod to Pilaf is actually one of the things I love about his character. I don’t think a villain necessarily needs a dark or grim tone to feel like a real threat. It’s a trope that’s been done so many times that, to me, it feels generic and even a bit boring.

What I like about Toriyama’s approach is that he often takes inspiration from real-life people to shape his characters. That makes them feel more unique and, in some cases, even more relatable. Gomah having this over-the-top, comedic side while also being a powerhouse just feels very Toriyama-esque to me, and I think that’s what makes him stand out.

That said, I wouldn’t be against the Demon Realm getting explored in Super later on, but I’d prefer it to have its own distinct flavor rather than just relying on a darker tone for the sake of it.

Instead of a Pilaf-nod, why couldn't they just use Pilaf? lol. Pilaf is clearly a demon and used to be a king. That would have been hilarious if he was invited to the demon realm and made Supreme Demon King. Pilaf becoming a threat would have been a sight to behold.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I've always wished Dragon Ball had more group fights, so I appreciated seeing that here. Gomah making a ring to avoid damaging the castle only for Vegeta to break one of the curving pillars to his shock, great. Gomah's entire "Huzzah! Wait, no, focus!" bit has been funny throughout, in tandem with it being what started the conflict. The show as a whole still feels like lore in search of a story.

[ZombieVito]

Gomah is weird to be. He absolutely does NOT feel like a villain in any way. He feels like the “fake” villain or the right hand man, who gets killed by the real deal later on, like Paragus or Sorbet or Raspberry. I honestly expected Degusu to get the third eye, get high off of his new power up and just kill Gomah. I’m glad to have my expectations subverted and Gomah is actually entertaining too.

But It feels awkward to have him as the villain now. Especially when Degusu had motives on his own and the plot just abruptly yoinked him out of the way in like 8 minutes, and we still have Arinsu to deal with. He doesn’t even really seem that threatening with the third eye.

I'm hoping Neva becomes the main villain in a twist.

Gomah just sucks and he's easily one of the worst villains in the series.

[TechExpert2021]

Gomah just sucks and he's easily one of the worst villains in the series.

Does Gomah feel like a Saturday morning cartoon villiain?

[AliTheZombie13]

Gomah just sucks and he's easily one of the worst villains in the series.

Does Gomah feel like a Saturday morning cartoon villiain?

A Saturday Morning Cartoon villain would actually have a more menacing form if they were to be considered a serious threat.
Hell, even My Little Pony has more menacing scary evolutions of their villain designs as the show progresses.
So either Gomah is not the real final villain, or the Daima designers are just massively incompetent.

[MCDaveG]

I guess that I will be in the minority in liking the choreography and art in this episode?
I think it illustrated the level of Gomah's power well and ranked up the stakes from previous friendly bouts.

Altho I have noticed that when Goku goes SSJ for the first time and the sequence afterwards looked like from back in the days, when the cheaper animation studio rushed through production with off models and bad composition, which threw me off as the production of Daima is top notch and I will still feel a bit sad, when the shows ends

Anyway, no surprises. After some friendly bouts, everyone teamed up against Gomah. Some nice art direction in the scene with Goku being restrained and then going SSJ3. So my final prediction will be, that they defeat Gomah, reach some kind of truce and Demon Realm won't become the hellish hole that Arinsu wishes it to be. Will get restored into adult forms.

Only suprise they might pull will be to keep them as kids with how they are doing weird rushed endings with all the shows except for maybe DB and GT, and leave it at To be continued... with them expanding on the story like with Sand Land.
Or the might pull some Final Fantasy BS with "I have been pulling the strings all along", Cthullhu type of villain.

But I feel that it will be pretty straightforward with the story being linear and non-surprising till the end and what we've got as a parting gift from Mr. Toriyama was his expansion on the interview about Demon Realm, which intrigued fans for years and inspired the likes of Mira and Towa etc. Basically a nod to DB fans with adding missing piece to the original story with some lore expanding the Buu arc

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Gomah is weird to be. He absolutely does NOT feel like a villain in any way. He feels like the “fake” villain or the right hand man, who gets killed by the real deal later on, like Paragus or Sorbet or Raspberry. I honestly expected Degusu to get the third eye, get high off of his new power up and just kill Gomah. I’m glad to have my expectations subverted and Gomah is actually entertaining too.

But It feels awkward to have him as the villain now. Especially when Degusu had motives on his own and the plot just abruptly yoinked him out of the way in like 8 minutes, and we still have Arinsu to deal with. He doesn’t even really seem that threatening with the third eye.

Fortunately with 3 episodes left I don't think he is the final boss. If he is the final boss then this would be the worst cop out since ToP arc teased Angels being bad...

[Noah]

In a more positive note Jaka Jaan full version has been posted on Zedd channel on youtube yesterday.

I still like the opening, the full version is not as good as I imagined, but still very enjoyable.

What about the ending?

I just hear this from a some one else: What if Goku makes a Genkidama with the energy of the demon realm, throws it at Goma, he bounces it back at Goku with the Third Eye and... you know, something happens...

Huh, like a retread of how Goku unlocked the Ultra Instinct? No thanks.

[Mr Baggins]

I don’t think a villain necessarily needs a dark or grim tone to feel like a real threat. It’s a trope that’s been done so many times that, to me, it feels generic and even a bit boring.

What I like about Toriyama’s approach is that he often takes inspiration from real-life people to shape his characters. That makes them feel more unique and, in some cases, even more relatable. Gomah having this over-the-top, comedic side while also being a powerhouse just feels very Toriyama-esque to me, and I think that’s what makes him stand out.

Also agreed. Gomah is the most refreshing take on authoritarian tyrants we've had in this franchise since Frieza, and he's extremely Toriyama to boot. Although I don't predict he'll be the final conflict, I wouldn't mind at all if he was. Incredibly fun villain all around.

I guess that I will be in the minority in liking the choreography and art in this episode?

Don't worry about whether you're a minority, friend. One's personal level of enjoyment always trumps whatever the popular take is.

We don't even know how well some of these criticisms will age from a consensus standpoint, though I'm willing to bet actual money a fair amount of them won't. Besides, the praise for this one is pretty universal. I myself worry about whether specific arcs and storylines will have a satisfactory conclusion, but that only tangentially reflects on the episode itself.

[YamiGoku]

In a more positive note Jaka Jaan full version has been posted on Zedd channel on youtube yesterday.

I still like the opening, the full version is not as good as I imagined, but still very enjoyable.

What about the ending?

I'm not sure , but I think is not out yet.

I just hear this from a some one else: What if Goku makes a Genkidama with the energy of the demon realm, throws it at Goma, he bounces it back at Goku with the Third Eye and... you know, something happens...

Huh, like a retread of how Goku unlocked the Ultra Instinct? No thanks.

I know is not gonna happen, I just find it funny because Gomma now has Jiren boddy and reflected the attack of the Tamagami with the Third Eye, just like Jiren deflected the Genkidama with his eyes on the TOP.

[TechExpert2021]

In a more positive note Jaka Jaan full version has been posted on Zedd channel on youtube yesterday.

I still like the opening, the full version is not as good as I imagined, but still very enjoyable.

What about the ending?

I'm not sure , but I think is not out yet.

Did you listen to the ending theme ("NAKAMA") at the end of every episode of Daima (except episode 1)? AFAIK, it lasts for a minute which is shorter than the usual 1-minute-and-30-second anime ending themes.

And the full version of the ending theme of Daima will be released on February 19, two days before the episode 19 of Daima premieres.

[Mister_Popo]

I don’t think a villain necessarily needs a dark or grim tone to feel like a real threat. It’s a trope that’s been done so many times that, to me, it feels generic and even a bit boring.

What I like about Toriyama’s approach is that he often takes inspiration from real-life people to shape his characters. That makes them feel more unique and, in some cases, even more relatable. Gomah having this over-the-top, comedic side while also being a powerhouse just feels very Toriyama-esque to me, and I think that’s what makes him stand out.

Also agreed. Gomah is the most refreshing take on authoritarian tyrants we've had in this franchise since Frieza, and he's extremely Toriyama to boot. Although I don't predict he'll be the final conflict, I wouldn't mind at all if he was. Incredibly fun villain all around.

Dragon Ball Daima has rarely, if ever, featured surprising plot twists along the way. So what can we still expect to happen? Abura has stored his essence within the Third Eye and is slowly taking over Gomah’s body, eventually using it as a vessel. Then, a fusion of Kuu and Duu launch a sneak attack on AbuGomah, absorbing him and resulting in the creation of an entirely new and even more powerful demon. And if SSJ4-Magic Goku finally defeats AKuuDuuGomah, it suddenly turns out that Dr. Arinsu secretly slipped away with the Dragon Balls (helped by Glorio) to wish her/himself into a Makaioshin—because it's always better to have a plan B in store. This would mean that a bug fusion is eventually still necessary to defeat Makaioshin Arinsu in the real final battle in the final episode, leaving five minutes to wish everyone back to normal and for Glorio to confess that he had been a very naughty boy all along.

I mean, this IS the final battle with the final villain—only two episodes left before we reach the wrap-up episode. Any introduction of new final villains at this stage would be a stretch too far and wouldn’t exactly help Daima stick the landing, wouldn't you think?

[Mr Baggins]

I mean, this IS the final battle with the final villain—only two episodes left before we reach the wrap-up episode. Any introduction of new final villains at this stage would be a stretch too far and wouldn’t exactly help Daima stick the landing, wouldn't you think?

I'm open to anything that makes sense and feels impactful.

Twists are not at all foreign to Dragon Ball's (and Toriyama's) repertoire, and with how briskly fights have been paced throughout the show, I could see this transitioning from Gomah to Arinsu or a different antagonist by the 19th episode. Or maybe it really will amount to one long fight. The landing depends on the execution and whether any of it feels aligned with the rest of the story.

Generally, I take my own predictions with a very tentative grain of salt; I think leaning too heavily into specific expectations can color one's ability to parse whatever the series is actually trying to do, and if it succeeds on those merits. So we'll see.

[Yuji]

I also struggle to believe with how snappy Daima's fights have been so far that Gomah's will extend past next episode. We'll wait and see, but fight pacing (outside of mooks) has been one of Daima's more impressive attributes so far, I'd hate to see this dragged out. If SS3 Goku won't cut it, skip directly to the fusion or whatever other plot device is going to resolve the plot, we don't need an extra episode of Goku and Vegeta fighting together.

[AliTheZombie13]

we don't need an extra episode of Goku and Vegeta fighting together.

Meanwhile, Piccolo is STILL there like. "Am I joke to you?"

[Dbzfan94]

I have to say I didn’t expect Gomah actually being the final villain. I was convinced Arinsu would pull out a 3rd Majin or the two Majins would merge or something, or even Degasu being the one to get the eye. Was disappointing to see Degasu get one-shot but I really did like the animation and a lot of moments in this episode.

I’m curious how they’ll supposedly fit a possible new form and fusion and reasonable conclusion in only 3 episodes but looking forward to it