Does Funimation really treat Dragonball that bad?

[TripleRach]

And speaking of Dragon Ball, that's another thing; their DVD releases of the original Dragon Ball series were absolutely flawless (a few missing intros/outros notwithstanding)... and what do they do? Discontinue them while I'm smack in the middle of fucking collecting them! And leave the first volume as a PAL only release to boot (that one's not entirely their fault, but still...)!

Sure it's more than likely that DB was discontinued due to low sales; but that's also partly because, again, their very own marketing caters so stringently and incomprehensibly towards the illiterate, hyperactive, "Sooper Sayen" obsessed peckerwoods like those on the Atari forums bitching about Arale Norimaki being in the newest Sparking game.

Actually, I think it has more to do with them eventually planning to release "season" sets for DB the way they are with DBZ, since it started around the same time all of their DBZ and even DBGT volumes started being phased out. I think someone even asked FUNimation about DB, and they were told it would be re-released relatively soon.

The reason it's a bigger issue with DB is because DBZ has the season sets, and DBGT had all of its single volumes packed into boxes last year (except for the "lost episodes" box, which will be out in a month or two), so it's by far the least available of the three.

[Onikage725]

In sum, Saban is a genius.

I will argue to the death that dub-wise (excluding the excessive editing) seasons 1 and 2 were much better than anything that came after it in terms of DBZ.

Well yeah, Ocean vs "The Chris Sabat Show."

[Kunzait_83]

b

[Chuquita]

In sum, Saban is a genius.

I will argue to the death that dub-wise (excluding the excessive editing) seasons 1 and 2 were much better than anything that came after it in terms of DBZ.

Well yeah, Ocean vs "The Chris Sabat Show."

Everytime that's mentioned I get the image of Mr. Sabat doing a late night talk show; you know, only with instead of one of those orchestra bands, they'd have Mr. Falconer standing off to the side with a big synth machine.


If Funi had just kept with the UUE's I wouldn't even be tempted to go buy Ocean's. TT_TT

[Vekurotto]

I will argue to the death that dub-wise (excluding the excessive editing) seasons 1 and 2 were much better than anything that came after it in terms of DBZ.

I read that wrong at first, I thought it said, including the excessive editing..., but yeah I can kind of agree with that. If it was uncut like the first 3 movies then I would have been fine.

Hey, I'm not condoning the music shift, but an OST for the movie 5 dub would be pretty kickass (like, "if you liked the Queen of the Damned soundtrack, you'll like ours!").

I'd actually be impartial to that. I'm probably one of the only DBZ sub-only fans that liked the music in that movie.

PS- I just heard about this Operation overdrive special crossover "Once a Ranger." Has anybody seen that? Is it any good?

If that was the episodes where they brought back Johnny Yong Bosch(Adam from MMPR) then that episode was pretty good. But they only brought in rangers from the last four non-Saban Power rangers series. Although I haven't seen too many episodes of Operation Overdrive but I made sure I saw that one, just for oldtimes sake.

To anybody that does watch PR: OO Have you noticed that the Sentai footage from Boukenger gets cropped like a fullscreen version of a widescreen movie. I'm watching and then they start talking to people that are kinda sorta onscreen. It's like the season sets in reverse.

If Funi had just kept with the UUE's I wouldn't even be tempted to go buy Ocean's. TT_TT

I wouldn't think of buying Ocean's seasons 1 & 2 because I don't like like edited anime. I had bad memories watching those.

[Onikage725]

So when given the option of the average person either A) staring at me blankly should I happen to mention DBZ, or B) roll their eyes, groan, and make some stupid snarky remark due to the stigma attached to an adaptation loaded to the gills with shitty Casio synth, shittier voice acting from a bunch of homoerotically grunting amateurs (who surprise, surprise… are perfectly talented and capable actors in everything else they’ve dubbed), and that sports a script about as accurately translated as a bad fan parody... I was personally much less annoyed and irritated with option A.

Hey now... the shitty synth is worse than the acting. Let's be fair here. That isn't to defend the acting, just... ok Faulconer has some good scores... but the Perfect Cell, Super Buu, Super Saiyan 3, and second Vegeta theme don't make up for EVERYTHING ELSE they crammed into the series. Honestly, the Freeza/Garlic jr. Sagas especially. That side-characters BGM and the carnival music are like nails on a chalkboard to any fan of the original show. At least the Saban score was so non-existent that you could tune it out effortlessly.

The main thing that irks me, more than segregation of DB fans, is segregation of anime fans. Bring up DBZ to an Otaku, and unless their a fan already, you probably get derision. And this scorn is mainly due to oversaturation of the crappy dub combined with the negative impact some dubbies drew upon the show (thats not pointing a finger at dubbies as a whole, just that some people back in the day were really loud and really ignorant, and often borderline racist). So now this show that had been widely respected even in the states among those who knew of it, let alone the whole rest of the world, is suddenly looked at like some shitty action fad that should just be swept under the rug.

Hey, I'm not condoning the music shift, but an OST for the movie 5 dub would be pretty kickass (like, "if you liked the Queen of the Damned soundtrack, you'll like ours!").

I'd actually be impartial to that. I'm probably one of the only DBZ sub-only fans that liked the music in that movie.

Ditto here. But all cool points go out the window at the "bean daddy" scene.

PS- I just heard about this Operation overdrive special crossover "Once a Ranger." Has anybody seen that? Is it any good?

If that was the episodes where they brought back Johnny Yong Bosch(Adam from MMPR) then that episode was pretty good. But they only brought in rangers from the last four non-Saban Power rangers series. Although I haven't seen too many episodes of Operation Overdrive but I made sure I saw that one, just for oldtimes sake.[/quote]

EVERY single time I catch OO it's the one where Will (Black Ranger) pretends to turn evil. Good ep, but I'm tired of seeing it :p

And does anyone know what Walter Jones has been up too? I just wonder why Johnny/Adam keep showing up in MMPR guise as the old-school Black Ranger. This is just musing more than anything else, but Zack popping up one of these days would be like Jason being in Forever Red (as opposed to Rocky). Tommy showed up as Zeo V, so Adam could theoretically show up in the future as Zeo IV. I mean, they just sort of...upgraded to Turbo, so the Zeo powers should technically still work anyway, right? They never handed those off to anyone.

[Super Sonic]

In sum, Saban is a genius.

I will argue to the death that dub-wise (excluding the excessive editing) seasons 1 and 2 were much better than anything that came after it in terms of DBZ.

Well yeah, Ocean vs "The Chris Sabat Show."

Can't agree. Likely due to Mr. Sabat being able to get away with more than Mr. Drummond, I have to say his season 1 & 2 Vegeta seemed like more of a bastard and more menacing yet subtle. Same wit his Piccolo. It's better when they'r evil.

Also to call it the "Chris Sabat show" is like calling Huckleberry Hound the "Daws Butler Show" or Rocky and Bullwinkle "The June Foray Show".

[Thanos6]

Drummond does a great American supervillain voice. If he had been cast in the 90's Fox Spider-Man series as the Green Goblin or Carnage, I don't think there would have been anything but praise. It's just not a good Vegeta voice.

(Not to bash American comics or their cartoons; I have several thousand of the former and quite a few bootleg DVDs of the latter)

Also regarding MMPR, I vaguely remember that when they first introduced Zedd, he was this frightening scary badass, but a lot of parents complained so they had to tone him down into little more than comic relief.

[Chuquita]

Drummond does a great American supervillain voice. If he had been cast in the 90's Fox Spider-Man series as the Green Goblin or Carnage, I don't think there would have been anything but praise. It's just not a good Vegeta voice.

(Not to bash American comics or their cartoons; I have several thousand of the former and quite a few bootleg DVDs of the latter)

Also regarding MMPR, I vaguely remember that when they first introduced Zedd, he was this frightening scary badass, but a lot of parents complained so they had to tone him down into little more than comic relief.

Yeah, I'm way more used to hearing Mr. Horikawa's interpretation than Mr. Drummond's. While Mr. Drummond's got some good lines (and you can't escape his wrath) I prefer Mr. Horikawa.


And Mr. Horikawa can sing!
But that's neither here nor there. >_>

[shenron002]

I like to add, to this quasie "FUNimation/Saban" topic, is the basterdization of "Samurai Pizza Cats" it seems like they watch the show with the sound off, and created there own lines, sorta like the show "MXC".

[Onikage725]

I will argue to the death that dub-wise (excluding the excessive editing) seasons 1 and 2 were much better than anything that came after it in terms of DBZ.

Well yeah, Ocean vs "The Chris Sabat Show."

Can't agree. Likely due to Mr. Sabat being able to get away with more than Mr. Drummond, I have to say his season 1 & 2 Vegeta seemed like more of a bastard and more menacing yet subtle. Same wit his Piccolo. It's better when they'r evil.

Also to call it the "Chris Sabat show" is like calling Huckleberry Hound the "Daws Butler Show" or Rocky and Bullwinkle "The June Foray Show".

Well now, its just a sarcastic joke, but it is rooted in some truth. I mean, in addition to Piccolo, Vegeta, and Yamcha, he was and has been Kami, Daimaou, Zarbon, Jheese, Butta, Sauza, Recoome, Ii Shenron, Karin, Popo, Shenron, I think Porunga, Silver and Black from the RR, Saichorou/Guru, Umigame/Turtle, Bubbles, King Vegeta, Moori, almost all of Slug's crew, and I'm pretty sure he handled Nappa, Raditz, and Dodoria in early flashbacks before they got regular actors.

Look at that list from the perspective of the Freeza Saga. He was 3 main characters, 3/5ths of the Ginyu, and a number of the major supporting characters. And his grandmother was Freeza. This made for some interesting group situations (especially that one flashback with Vegeta, Raditz, Nappa, Zarbon, Dodoria, and Freeza).

Also... I totally disagree on him being better. I prefer his Vegeta when he's calmer. When he's being evil, I thought Drummond was sinister, downright scary when he yelled. Sabat's yelling tends to annoy me.

Let me put it this way-

In movie 6-

"You'll spill no Saiyan blood today."

Coola- "A second Super Saiyan?"

"Second in order, perhaps, but by no means in stature. Your fight is with me now."

That was badass.

But I found roughly 75% of his dialogue in the Cell saga abrasive and hard on the ears. Vegeta in the original version during this arc was very understated. He came off mainly as smug and pompous. Dub Vegeta was yelling all the time and adding insults in. Like the Artificial Humans- Vegeta was disgusted by them. In the original he calls them over-grown wind up dolls or something of that nature. In the dub he goes all over the board on insults (my favorite being "ultimate tub of lard bucket of bolts"). He also just generally comes off as overly loud. When 19 has him, in the original Vegeta takes his "Ill never let you go" statement as amusing. He's fairly quiet about it, almost like he's dealing with a child who thinks he's actually got a shot at winning.

Hey hey I found clips.
Japanese (sorry, no subs, but we all know how it went down).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-PV2-Z2cgg
The scene in question is around 2:50. Vegeta's just kind of like "O RLY?" the whole time as 19 thinks he's winning.

US Dub
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCfKITe2gEY
About 7 minutes in. Points for creepy music. Vegeta's more like "BWUAHAHA MUTHAFUCKA!" Oh, and points off for not naming the Big Bang Attack, or calling himself Super Vegeta (the lack of which has gotten me in many an edit war with dubbies on Wikipedia).

And for shits and grins, Blue Water-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Kzl-SQyYg
My sweet Lord is Canadian 19 shitastic. And that music actually makes me want a Faulconer score... that aside, in spite of the fact that they seem to have to work off the FUNi script, I think Drummond captures more of the original's feel. Like he's somewhere in between. I dunno, maybe its just presence, but Ryo Horikawa and Brian Drummond manage to come off as a douchebag without yelling 100% of the time.

Oh and once more. Canadian #19. What. The. Hell?

Moving on, Piccolo. Same thing as Vegeta back then (especially Cell era). Just way too gruff and loud. I found McNeil to be a far more demonic Piccolo. If you can ever track down the Pioneer dub of movie 2, the scene where Piccolo roars is downright scary. I have the redub, and while overall its solid, that particular instance failed to measure up.

Oddly enough, I do prefer Sabat's enlightened and 2x fused later-end Piccolo. If you take they hyper out of Sabat, you get fairly poignant performance. Take the demon out of McNeil and you get a neutered Piccolo. Its odd, but thats just how it sounds to me when I watch the later end Blue Water stuff.

Probably my two favorite Sabat roles are Daimaou and Raizen (I actually think he uses the same voice for both more or less).

I like to add, to this quasie "FUNimation/Saban" topic, is the basterdization of "Samurai Pizza Cats" it seems like they watch the show with the sound off, and created there own lines, sorta like the show "MXC".

Pretty much. Honest to goodness, they did not have a script. Seriously, they got the footage, but no transcripts. Add to that the fact that Cat Ninden is FULL of Japanese cultural inside jokes that frankly we wouldn't get (I have Cat Ninden fansubs, so I'm not exaggerating- not too hard to follow, maybe sparks some independant research, would have passed right over the head of a kid browsing for afternoon cartoons), and they went with writing new scripts. Gotta give SPC points for actually being funny. Honestly, I prefer SPC to KNY (not to detract from KNY). I dont really think of SPC as a dub of KNY, cuz it really isn't. It's more like a Power Rangers/Super Sentai scenario than anything else.

[dagame10k]

Can't agree. Likely due to Mr. Sabat being able to get away with more than Mr. Drummond, I have to say his season 1 & 2 Vegeta seemed like more of a bastard and more menacing yet subtle. Same wit his Piccolo. It's better when they'r evil.

Sabat is able to get away with more than Drummond?

I'll agree with that to an extent, well simply because FUNi continues to to screw up the show, and at the same time, Sabat is the Voice Director which doesn't help matters.

But in all seriousness, Drummond unlike Sabat has this thing called talent, he can age a character voice to suit the character which happens to an extent from episode 108+ but because it was a made for TV rushed dub, it's not as apparent as it could have been. Whats going to happen when they reach like the beginning of the Buu saga with their new DVD series? Is Sabat going to deviate from his current Vegeta voice and make a 4th Vegeta version? Seriously, that says a lot about the voice acting abilities of Chris Sabat if he can't get 1 voice right which he has been doing for more than 7-8 years. Sabat is just so bad that he can't even imitate his own character voices with continuity.

If you look at Sabat's Vegeta, he really did a number on it, he has like 3 versions of said voice with the Drummond imitation, his stuff from around the Androids saga which was likely his best but nowhere near the quality of Drummond, and his Late Buu Saga voice which stuck out like a sore thumb in GT, and the beginning of the redub of the beginning of Dragonball Z up until the latest DVD releases.

All in all, Sabat's Vegeta went from a Nasally sound to a "Something is stuck down my throat" voice which is just getting worse as time goes by.

As for your Piccolo comment, Drummond wasn't the Voice Actor who voiced Piccolo, that would be Scott McNeil who also has loads more talent than Sabat could ever dream of. Sabat's Piccolo is a surviving leftover of FUNi's 1999 Ocean imitation, said voice from McNeil to Sabat lost intelegence, character, personality. Also overtime Sabat's Piccolo and Vegeta character voices have been getting closer and closer to sounding like each other which is just sad.

When compared to Drummond and Scott McNeil, all of Sabat's voices sound close to the same. Go watch Gundam Seed, Gundam Seed Destiny, and Gundam wing in which Drummond has done voice work in. Without looking at the Cast Credits I doubt you could even tell which characters he's done because he has the talent to change his voice to sound different for various character which is one of the most important things of being a voice actor, same thing goes for McNeil where you can find the same talent in Beast Wars. In Beast Wars, McNeil was literally talking to himself in a lot of scenes, which Sabat's also doing here, but he's doing it POORLY.
McNeil's characters all sounded so completely different in Beast Wars.

Sabat's Vegeta, Piccolo, Zarbon and Yamacha sound so very close which is a bad thing especially for main characters like Vegeta and Piccolo.
A couple of his Ginyu fForce Voices do sound different to the above, but they aren't that great.

Also to call it the "Chris Sabat show" is like calling Huckleberry Hound the "Daws Butler Show" or Rocky and Bullwinkle "The June Foray Show".

There was a time when it was fact, before the redub Sabat took it upon himself to dub the Majority of the cast which was disgusting because HE WAS THE VOICE DIRECTOR act the time, and still is. I don't know what caused it, but after episode 276 Sabat began losing a lot of the characters he was voicing, wheather it was his decision, or someone higher up at FUNi, I don't know.

As for the rest of FUNimation's handling of the Dragonball Series, this how I basically feel.

Every FUNi voice actor but Sabat I don't have a disregard for for because they were just hired to do a job. Bruce Faulconer I don't have a disregard for because he was just hired to score the show with idiot guidance from FUNi. Sabat was hired to do one of the most important jobs when it comes dubbing a show, the anchor is the Voice Director who's job is to get get quality voice acting out of the acting cast and he royally screwed up. Barry Watson screwed up because he was too lazy to fly to Vancouver to use quality talent. Finally Gen is the heart of all this mishandling since the day they got their hands on the series, he's the moron to completely blame for all of this.

[Thanos6]

Hmm, the mention of MXC has given me an idea for a future FUNimation special feature.

They hire the guys from MST3K to mock the dub.

[Rocketman]

... I like "BWUAHAHA MUTHAFUCKA!" Vegeta.

[Lavender Saiyan]

In my opinion, those clips from the #19 fight only come up in favor of Sabat. His badass Vegeta really does more-so show off the essence of Vegeta. Which is a pissy um..."Bwahahhahaha MuthaFucka". But I do have to say, I love it when Drummond says "It's enough because you're losing". The emphasis that he puts on "losing" makes me giggle like a little school girl.

But anyway, back to the main point. It's not really Sabat's fault that FUNi was short on actors when they started out. He really was and still is the best VA they have. They had to go with a guy that can do a lot of voices. I really don't see the problem with this, all of his voices were unique in their own way.

Also, on the Ocean Vs. FUNi subject. I really don't like the Ocean Dub that much. It had its good points (mainly Scott McNeil). But Drummond as Vegeta...well...I've been saying this for years...sounded too teenage punk'ish. While Corlett as Goku failed to capture the light-heartedness of Goku. Atleast not as good as Schemmel. I will admit that Season 1 of the Ocean Dub had superior acting to the early half of Season 3. But good acting doesn't mean "quality" when the voices are un-suiting for the characters.

Every FUNi voice actor but Sabat I don't have a disregard for for because they were just hired to do a job. Bruce Faulconer I don't have a disregard for because he was just hired to score the show with idiot guidance from FUNi. Sabat was hired to do one of the most important jobs when it comes dubbing a show, the anchor is the Voice Director who's job is to get get quality voice acting out of the acting cast and he royally screwed up. Barry Watson screwed up because he was too lazy to fly to Vancouver to use quality talent. Finally Gen is the heart of all this mishandling since the day they got their hands on the series, he's the moron to completely blame for all of this.

I think you're being way too harsh. It takes people a while to get into their characters. Which is why the first half of Season 3 wasn't so hot. If you watch a sitcom or whatever starting from when it first comes out. Then reruns start and you see Season 1 again you'll automatically think "WTF". It's because actors were not into character yet. FUNi's DBZ group by the Androids Saga had really come together as a group and sounded well together. As for Faulconer, I'm a supporter of Faulconer, I love his music. To me, that IS DBZ's music, just like the FUNi cast IS DBZ's cast to me. I even liked his Garlic Jr. Saga's music, I loved it how each Era had it's own theme and feel with the music. It may not have been the highest quality of music considering he used just a synthesizer. But it did capture the tone of DBZ in my opinion.

[Thanos6]

I wouldn't call Sabat the best one they have. Clarke and Robertson are both superior, I think.

[Lavender Saiyan]

I take it you mean Dameon Clarke? But who is Robertson?

[Thanos6]

Rick Robertson. Does Dabra/Dabura.

[Lavender Saiyan]

Is there any other big roles he's done? I really don't know his name that well. I do agree with you though that Clarke is a superb actor, but think Sabat's even better. Sabat's good at capturing the darker good guys. Like Roy Revant in Solty Rei and Tatsumi Saiga in Speed Grapher. He can not only pass off a believable character, but really add depth to the voice of the character. He really makes it feel like he's not just doing a voice.

[Onikage725]

Is there any other big roles he's done? I really don't know his name that well. I do agree with you though that Clarke is a superb actor, but think Sabat's even better. Sabat's good at capturing the darker good guys. Like Roy Revant in Solty Rei and Tatsumi Saiga in Speed Grapher. He can not only pass off a believable character, but really add depth to the voice of the character. He really makes it feel like he's not just doing a voice.

Rick's only done Dabura I believe. Dameon's also done South Kaio and Bora. Ya know, my two favorite FUNimation VA's are Justin Cook and John Burgmeier. Not necessarily even with DBZ, but I thought their work on Yu Yu Hakusho was phenominal. Hell, I don't like Tien's dub voice all that much, and when I found out the same guy was doing Kurama (possibly my favorite dub voice) I was stunned.

In my opinion, those clips from the #19 fight only come up in favor of Sabat. His badass Vegeta really does more-so show off the essence of Vegeta. Which is a pissy um..."Bwahahhahaha MuthaFucka". But I do have to say, I love it when Drummond says "It's enough because you're losing". The emphasis that he puts on "losing" makes me giggle like a little school girl.

I'd say I was a purist, but I'm not really. All the same, when Toriyama's dialogue doesn't reflect this, and Ryo Horikawa's role doesn't reflect this, I have a hard time considering that the "essence" of Vegeta. I know actors are allowed a certain level of personal interpretation, but from the increased tone to the more insulting script and the fact that the guy playing Vegeta was both the voice director and one of the guys who approved scripts... this feels more like a fan dub than anything else. Illustrated all the moreso in this very scene during the SSJ flashback, which is chock full of interpretations and theories, and surrounding script changes that subtley change the character's motivations at that point. Again, if you loved this stuff or the role Sabat has done in general, that is you rpergoative. But I have a hard time taking one guys over the top interpretation of a character to be the true essence of said character.

Let me put it this way- Vegeta calling people candy-ass faggots and dropping f-bombs all the time may seem perfectly in keeping with his character (and would even be a good evolution of the brass, insulting, over-eager dub version). This doesnt mean Anime Labs subs were an appropriate translation.

I think I mentioned this earlier in this thread, but the scene right before King Cold's ship lands is a great example for me. In the original version Vegeta, exuding smugness with subtle scorn during most of the scene, orders Yamcha and Tenshinhan to shut it and lowe their ki to avoid scouters, then compliments Piccolo on how he was already doing so (surprising the other who didn't know he was there). The whole scene in English is nonsensical, as he yells at the top of his lungs about the jabbering and then adds that the scary-talk is upsetting Piccolo.


Oh, and this has nothing to do with the dub but-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPTge3wS1AU
From the Playdia thing. ANyone notice how Vegeta just kinda hangs out like he could give two shits what's going on? THAT'S the essence of Vegeta :p