Don't you just hate it when people think DB is for kids...

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:57 am

Depends. We got punished by a teacher for saying 'smeg' once.

ImmortalSandwich · Post by **ImmortalSandwich** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:42 am

One time in elementary school, I was standing in line at the water fountain, and the kid in front was drinking for a long time. He lifted his head and said "THIS WATER TASTES HORRIBLE", then put his head back down and kept drinking. I said "If it tastes so bad, why are you sucking it all up then?", and the teacher ran over to me, grabbed me by the arm, and dragged me to the principles office where I got written up for saying "sucking", because that word CAN be used in a sexual way, despite me not using it that way.

Man I hate how retarded this country is with its censorship. It's just plain stupid. They think children are going to turn into criminals if they say a cuss word or see some violence on TV, even though the things they see in their own house are usually 100 times worse.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:46 pm

You have to remember that the United States is a whole different breed than any other country. You may think it's stupid, but the government knows what it's doing. And all these soccer moms buy into it. "WHAT?! MY CHILD SAID 'DAMN'!!!" Time to boycott.

kenisu3000 · Post by **kenisu3000** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:33 pm

I'm quite fine with the fact that DragonBall was meant for kids. In retrospect, I've never really been into adult-oriented shows anyway. That's just how I was made.

However...

Recently, I was at a Hastings store checking out the manga section, and there was no DragonBall! I was appalled and confused. Had it become so obsolete that it had petered off the shelves over time? What kind of so-called Hastings was this?
And then I started to wander around around the store, only to discover a separate section for children's manga. And there was DragonBall. That's when I got offended. I don't know why, since I am comfortable with the fact that it's kid-oriented, but that just cooked my goose.

On a somewhat related note, I'm also pretty upset with Viz for slapping the VizKids label on the recent Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time US manga release by Akira Himekawa. Sure, it's no more adult than DragonBall, but do they have to say "underworld" instead of "hell?" I really liked that badass line of Link's in the original Japanese manga, and they had to go and change it, even though in my experience, using "hell" in that context is not swearing at all. Of course, all the soccer moms would see would be H-E-double-hockeysticks, and regardless of context, they'd flip their lid. Come on, people. This isn't the 1950s anymore.

[/off-topic]

ImmortalSandwich · Post by **ImmortalSandwich** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:40 pm

Lumping DB in the children's section is sort of lame.. I mean sure it may be Shounen, but it's not child only. Would you find Bleach in the childrens section? No, despite the fact that it's aimed at the same exact audience, and is published in the same weekly magazine DBZ was, it's still in a separate section.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:07 pm

You wouldn't find Pokemon in the kid's section either (you'd find it in Anime), but that's not an argument.

B · Post by B » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:38 pm

Manga is generally considered it's own different thing in the U.S.

I was at B&Ns the other day picking up a book for my brother, and I was looking around. There's Sci-Fi, Role-Playing, Adventure, and Manga, despite the fact those other three categories could all be in a manga.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:08 pm

B wrote:Manga is generally considered it's own different thing in the U.S.

I was at B&Ns the other day picking up a book for my brother, and I was looking around. There's Sci-Fi, Role-Playing, Adventure, and Manga, despite the fact those other three categories could all be in a manga.

That's the same for all Graphic Novels. Even 10 years ago when the US comics outnumbered the manga and they were mixed in.

hotrod28 · Post by **hotrod28** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:43 pm

For those of you saying Dragonball Z isn't very deep, I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, but I'd like to share a little anecdote with you guys.

I have a little 8 year-old stepbrother who loves dbz right now (and a 3 year old, they both got it from me most definitely) and they watch dbz with me very often. So anyway, yesterday I was watching season 8 with them yesterday, and we got to the episode where Vegeta sacrifices himself to destroy buu. Now keep in mind he had seen all of the buu arc episodes preceding this one.

It gets to the scene where Vegeta punches Trunks and Goten. After my 8 year old stepbrother sees this, he turns to me and says "why did Vegeta just do that?" Obviously I know the answer, but it seemed to not be within his, an average 8 year old boy, realm of understanding. And in my opinion, there are a few moments like that in DBZ.

Am I using this little story of mine to drive the point home that DBZ is not for children? Of course not, but I am saying some plot elements are a little more complex than you think. As "adults" I think we find it difficult to think as a young child, because everything is so obvious as we grow older. In retrospect, is DBZ's plot as simplified as some individuals like to make it out to be, just because we have seen it so many times/have grown older?

And one more side note about my stepbrother, we were watching the episode after that and when piccolo is looking at Buu's dismembered body on the ground, he says "WHY DOESN'T PICCOLO JUST BLAST THEM!" I laughed.

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:59 pm

Well, I agree to a certain extent. Naturally, a show that's aimed at children doesn't have to be devoid of maturity or underlying themes. I can see there being a lot of elements that kids can't really relate to like Gokuh's parental feelings towards Gohan or future Trunks' wish for a peaceful future even if it it's not his own (though, can anyone relate to that?) but that doesn't mean they can't come to understand these type of things and enjoy them. I find it pretty lame when cartoons try to bring themselves down to the mindset of a child and end up aiming too low with stereotypical characters and extremely low forms of humor. Children have a greater capacity for plot and thematic elements than that, and even if they don't it doesn't do them any favors not to attempt to enrich their entertainment.

Satan-Sama · Post by **Satan-Sama** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:14 pm

ImmortalSandwich wrote:One time in elementary school, I was standing in line at the water fountain, and the kid in front was drinking for a long time. He lifted his head and said "THIS WATER TASTES HORRIBLE", then put his head back down and kept drinking. I said "If it tastes so bad, why are you sucking it all up then?", and the teacher ran over to me, grabbed me by the arm, and dragged me to the principles office where I got written up for saying "sucking", because that word CAN be used in a sexual way, despite me not using it that way.

Man I hate how retarded this country is with its censorship. It's just plain stupid. They think children are going to turn into criminals if they say a cuss word or see some violence on TV, even though the things they see in their own house are usually 100 times worse.

Pretty much if you deprive your kid of a lot of that stuff all their life, chances are they could grow up to be more fucked up than say a kid watching an occasional Rated R movie or such.

Satan-Sama · Post by **Satan-Sama** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:16 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:You have to remember that the United States is a whole different breed than any other country. You may think it's stupid, but the government knows what it's doing. And all these soccer moms buy into it. "WHAT?! MY CHILD SAID 'DAMN'!!!" Time to boycott.

Yeah and when that happens, stupid ass parents try to use scapegoats. Like blame all shows aimed for older ages for making their kid say a bad word, when in reality it is aimed for an older audience for a reason.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:30 pm

hotrod28 wrote:For those of you saying Dragonball Z isn't very deep, I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, but I'd like to share a little anecdote with you guys.

I have a little 8 year-old stepbrother who loves dbz right now (and a 3 year old, they both got it from me most definitely) and they watch dbz with me very often. So anyway, yesterday I was watching season 8 with them yesterday, and we got to the episode where Vegeta sacrifices himself to destroy buu. Now keep in mind he had seen all of the buu arc episodes preceding this one.

It gets to the scene where Vegeta punches Trunks and Goten. After my 8 year old stepbrother sees this, he turns to me and says "why did Vegeta just do that?" Obviously I know the answer, but it seemed to not be within his, an average 8 year old boy, realm of understanding. And in my opinion, there are a few moments like that in DBZ.

Am I using this little story of mine to drive the point home that DBZ is not for children? Of course not, but I am saying some plot elements are a little more complex than you think. As "adults" I think we find it difficult to think as a young child, because everything is so obvious as we grow older. In retrospect, is DBZ's plot as simplified as some individuals like to make it out to be, just because we have seen it so many times/have grown older?

And one more side note about my stepbrother, we were watching the episode after that and when piccolo is looking at Buu's dismembered body on the ground, he says "WHY DOESN'T PICCOLO JUST BLAST THEM!" I laughed.

Good point. Just because it's made for kids doesn't mean it shouldn't have things that are over their head. If anything it might enlighten them to that sort of thing. They're going to learn sometime, why not here?

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:38 pm

Guess it's a good thing we weren't around 30-40 years ago when soccer moms were starting complaints and caused Looney Tunes and Tom & jerry to be censored for violence.

On topic, when hearing mention of kids' anime, most guys I know don't describe DBZ. THey use that term for shows that might not have enough of n older fanbase to warrant dual-language releases in the States like Pokemon, Digimon, Beyblade, all non-Jump based anime done by 4Kids besides Sonic X, etc.

ImmortalSandwich · Post by **ImmortalSandwich** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:42 pm

It's just the connotation associated with "kids show". Saying something is a "kids show" usually makes people think Barney, Power Puff Girls, Spongebob, etc. While DBZ doesn't belong in the same group as those shows, by very definition, it is classified among them.

Not saying those shows can't be enjoyed by older audiences, but you get the point.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:50 pm

Which is odd, because Powerpuff Girls (and sometimes Spongebob) also have a lot of humor that is way over a child's head. I watched all of Powerpuff Girls in a row and I was left wondering, "This was really made for kids??" Obviously it was, but...wow.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:59 pm

I think with both of them, it was similar to how the DCAU was, with wanting young audience, but wanting to appeal to a broad audience, so they put things like that. And remember, PPG was originally called, "The Whoopass Girls".

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:09 pm

Super Sonic wrote:And remember, PPG was originally called, "The Whoopass Girls".

Haha, they took the Amoeba Boys into the sun... That's hardcore.

ImmortalSandwich · Post by **ImmortalSandwich** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:15 pm

The older I get, the more I notice things like that in kids shows. I was babysitting my niece, and she was watching some show on Cartoon Network (can't remember the name), and they started throwing out all these obscure jokes that sounded really silly to the kids, and they laughed their asses off at it, but when I heard it, I took it as a sex joke disguised as something innocent, and laughed my ass off as well, by the very fact that it was said on cartoon network in the afternoon.

I think the creators of these shows do stuff like this on purpose. They want the show to appeal to more people than just the kids they're aimed at, so they throw in all this humor that will go right over a child's head, and still be funny to them anyway. And when the adults hear it, they laugh too. It's like getting away with doing drugs in front of your kids, but them not understanding what it is.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:28 pm

Yeah, that's a pretty standard way of keeping the adults entertained too. Even Disney movies do it to an extent.

Powerpuff Girls has some bizarre examples though. Like this transformer guy came down from space and challenged all the male superheroes.

His challenge was, "Bring all your manhoods against mine and we'll see how you measure up," or something like that. Another line was something like, "fools, the more you come against me, the harder I become!"

...Yeah.

As for Spongebob, the karate episode seems like an analogy for sex.

"For a minute there I thought that was-"
"Karate?"
"Right now??" *both blush*

Kanzenshuu

Don't you just hate it when people think DB is for kids...

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