"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[SilverPlaqueVII]

Looks like SSGSS and Golden Freeza will debut in 25 (likely at the end). They stretched Goku and Beerus' first battle into a full episode and their rematch into 5. Assuming things stay similar to the original from here on out, for the bigger points anyway, I'm thinking it will at least be spaced out so that...

26 starts SSGSS Goku vs Golden Freeza's fight.
27, at the end, could debut Freeza's weakness.
28 will be Goku stalling, then getting shot
29 will be Vegeta's turn and end with Freeza's surprise attack
30 will be Goku saving the day and the post battle stuff ala 14

One can dream. Only Vegeta will get to kill Freeza completely rather than Goku. I'd rather see him both survive along with Freeza after destroying the Earth. 31 could see the restoration of Earth and resurrection of Piccolo using the Namekian balls.

So far, the episodes will be airing for the next three weeks, resuming on January 10th.

[Chuquita]

That would be cool if Vegeta gets to win this time...

I don't know how likely, but it'd be cool.

[LuckyCat]

So Piccolo definitely died?

It doesn't actually say Piccolo died. It just says he took the brunt of Freeza's Death Beam. But remember, the same thing happened to Piccolo on Namek when Piccolo saved Goku and Piccolo survived that.

[FutureGohanSSJ2]

Are you kidding? Super has only made Goku MORE in character and MORE in line with what Toriyama believes it to be. Goku here is more selfish about getting stronger than ever before.

In Super, while Goku is still dissatisfied that he became stronger with the help of others, he is also excited with the kind of power he obtained. In BoG, he disliked the power of SSG, until he managed to absorb its power. Toriyama also said that Goku doesn't like the power of SSG because he doesn't think it's fair to become stronger with the help of others. And don't forget that whatever his involvement with Super BoG & FnF arcs is (assuming there is any), he isn't more involved with them than he was with the movies, where he personally wrote their entire scripts.

As for Kuririn, this is definitely Toei's Kuririn, since he keeps getting treated like trash. In BoG, he is treated as a joke like in the movies (when he eats that spicy food with his usual "why is it always me?!" catchphrase from the anime), he is scared to fight Beerus and finds silly excuses in order not to fight, and he is scared of fighting Freeza's weak soldiers, even though he is was the 3rd strongest of the Z-Warriors.

That was the shittiest moment in the franchise IMO. At first, I got excited with the idea that Kuririn is scared of Freeza, since he killed him. But it turns out he is actually scared of the soldiers... And everyone acts as if he is in danger, and he needs encouragement from Kame-sennin, who tells him that their movements appear slow because Kuririn has seen the fights with Cell, Boo, and Beerus. No, that's not the reason they appear to be slow, it's because Kuririn is too strong for them! They are treating the strongest Earthling as if this is Saiyan arc Gohan, which is really disappointing.

And as for the scene you mentioned in FnF, where Kuririn hits a tree and gets saved by Gohan, that's Toei's work too. That scene isn't in Toriyama's script.

The movies are also written, according to Toriyama, as if the manga was still in serialization. Super BoG/FnF are written as continuations of the anime, which is why Gregory, Mr. Satan's crew, and Frog Ginyu from the anime appear in Super. The Champa arc from the Super manga fits fine with the original manga & the movies so far, so we'll see how the Champa arc of the anime fits as well, but the Super BoG & FnF arcs don't fit with the manga.

They-uh... they do. Mr. Satan's crew are nods to the characters, but they're not even outright named, and nothing about them directly references the time they tried to fight Cell. Ginyu as a frog was in the manga too, nothing contradictory there. And what he showed in flashbacks is also not contradicted by the manga, but DOES run contradictory to the anime's depiction of what happened to him afterward.. Anime had him becoming some sort of Frog King. Also you're kinda taking the term "observed" as being literally the word "seen', and that's not the case. It's saying he's gained experience from fighting alongside and against all of them at one point. It's also playing into an ongoing character arc wherein Krillin's self-confidence has taken a massive hit. I mean really, when you're minimally impactful in a fight, when you're so much stronger than normal but the next guy up is leagues above you, your own wife is, your best friend who you trained alongside achieved god-tier power and a single punch almost hospitalized you... yeah, you begin to very much doubt your own ability. ...and frankly, Gregory is nitpicking. Toriyama actually liked Gregory a lot when he first saw him, and all this would mean is he decided to actually introduce the character into his series. So far I'm not seeing anything super canon-breaking about it either.

Also, where the hell are you getting Super being as a continuation of the anime over the manga? He said that the series was a complete continuation of the Majin Buu saga. Complete. As in total. As in "not a spinoff".

[Hellspawn28]

Is Piccolo really dead? It seems really lazy and poor to do that. Piccolo has died as much times as Krillin now .

[JulieYBM]

Is Piccolo really dead? It seems really lazy and poor to do that. Piccolo has died as much times as Krillin now .

Why is matching Kuririn's Death count bad? Piccolo is in good company.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I feel like it bears mentioning that even counting GT (which wouldn't be a factor for Super since even if you want them both to still happen, GT wouldn't have happened yet), Kuririn has only died four times (Tambourine, Freeza, Boo, and then Android 17 in GT). That's only two more times than the lead character of Goku (Radiz and Cell). So Piccolo possibly hitting three deaths as well, only one more than the lead character himself, is hardly some kind of mark of shame.

[Sandubadear]

I feel like it bears mentioning that even counting GT (which wouldn't be a factor for Super since even if you want them both to still happen, GT wouldn't have happened yet), Kuririn has only died four times (Tambourine, Freeza, Boo, and then Android 17 in GT). That's only two more times than the lead character of Goku (Radiz and Cell). So Piccolo possibly hitting three deaths as well, only one more than the lead character himself, is hardly some kind of mark of shame.

Piccolo died in GT too, so they would be tied if Piccolo really died now (which is not really confirmed).

[Gyt Kaliba]

I feel like it bears mentioning that even counting GT (which wouldn't be a factor for Super since even if you want them both to still happen, GT wouldn't have happened yet), Kuririn has only died four times (Tambourine, Freeza, Boo, and then Android 17 in GT). That's only two more times than the lead character of Goku (Radiz and Cell). So Piccolo possibly hitting three deaths as well, only one more than the lead character himself, is hardly some kind of mark of shame.

Piccolo died in GT too, so they would be tied if Piccolo really died now (which is not really confirmed).

Yeah, but it's in the same category of Kuririn's GT death of not really counting towards Super anyway, since even if GT still 'counts', it hasn't happened in the timeline yet. It does still tie them up so for that purpose I should have mentioned it though, my bad.

I still don't really see how it's any kind of mark against a character really though (and can we really count when everyone died from Boo, since literally everyone save Goku, Vegeta, Mr. Boo, and Mr. Satan got offed there?). Heck, for all the non-character-ness I feel towards Chaozu, the fact that he's died three times isn't anywhere near the first thing that I'd complain about for the guy.

[ZombieVito]

So Piccolo died and Gohan will get a rage boost.

Well, we can't have everything.

[Doctor.]

I don't think he's getting a rage boost. He's probably just going "ultimate" for a few seconds, only to get defeated by Freeza once again.

[Sandubadear]

Yeah, they are tied in deaths counting GT or not. But I like to count Piccolo Daimao's death as well, so Piccolo is in first place

In third place we have Chaozu with 3, and #17 is in either tied in third (counting GT) or tied with Goku with 2 deaths in fourth.

[dbzfan7]

I don't think he's getting a rage boost. He's probably just going "ultimate" for a few seconds, only to get defeated by Freeza once again.

The hilarious thing will be when if Gohan rage boosts (Which I hope not), it'll still be far less than LOLRAGETA's boost despite Piccolo's circumstance being far worse than Bulma getting slapped, and being the OG rager.

[Araki]

The hilarious thing will be when if Gohan rage boosts (Which I hope not), it'll still be far less than LOLRAGETA's boost despite Piccolo's circumstance being far worse than Bulma getting slapped, and being the OG rager.

The big difference you're forgetting is that Gohan is seriously hurt, when Vegeta wasn't. Goku even warns him in the preview that his body can't handle it.

[LuckyCat]

So Piccolo died.

We still don't know that. The episode preview doesn't reveal any more about Piccolo than episode 22 itself did.

[Zephyr]

Mr. Satan's crew are nods to the characters, but they're not even outright named, and nothing about them directly references the time they tried to fight Cell.

So according to you, it makes sense for them to take filler characters with very specific designs and relationships, put them into Super, and unless they're explicitly identified as the specific characters from filler who they completely resemble, then they're obviously not trying to imply that Super shares a continuity with said filler?

If Super ends with a flash forward to an image of a character that completely resembles Super Saiyan 4 Goku, but they don't explicitly state anything, then, following you're reasoning, they're obviously not trying to imply that GT comes next.

Ginyu as a frog was in the manga too, nothing contradictory there.

In Episode 22 Bulma makes it known to Jaco, as well as the audience, that she has had a prior encounter with Frog Ginyu. She has only ever had an official prior encounter with Frog Ginyu in the anime filler. Putting 2 and 2 together, using induction, invoking Occam's Razor, etc. we would be led to believe that Super shares a continuity with this bit of anime filler.

Yet for some reason this absolutely cannot be the case? You have to make a stronger claim than "well they didn't explicitly say so..." for why this is not the case. That is, if you're wanting to reasonably convince anyone to share your viewpoint. And if you aren't wanting to reasonably convince people, I don't know why you're posting in the first place.

And what he showed in flashbacks is also not contradicted by the manga, but DOES run contradictory to the anime's depiction of what happened to him afterward.. Anime had him becoming some sort of Frog King.

Following your reasoning, it's never explicitly stated that Frog Ginyu in Super was absolutely never, even for a short time relative to his bigger plights as a frog, crowned a king of frogs. Therefore, this contradiction you claim exists doesn't, according to your reasoning.

Toriyama actually liked Gregory a lot when he first saw him

Toriyama designed Gregory for the anime staff. You're making it seem like you have an incredibly elementary understanding of the production process of the franchise, relative to what one could easily have given the plethora of easily accessible information we have; which is odd considering how adamant you are with your opinions.

all this would mean is he decided to actually introduce the character into his series. So far I'm not seeing anything super canon-breaking about it either.

All that would mean? You're saying that there's literally only one singular explanation for why a character is included? If that's the case, then why the hell aren't we going with the least assumptive reasons for these cases? Why make a mountain of logic twisting assumptions about the inclusion of Mr. Satan's disciples when the simple explanation of "Super shares a continuity with the anime" is available? Why assume "well, the anime staff decided to include characters with identical designs and relationships to anime only characters, but they just aren't the same characters because of reasons"? It simply appears to be the case that you're so strongly against Super being in continuity with the DB/Z anime that you're providing wholly inconsistent reasoning for different issues with the assertion to the contrary.

Look, it's fine if you want to view Super as having continuity with the manga rather than the anime, but please stop trying to twist things in an effort to make it out that this is the most obvious explanation and forcing that perspective on others. You're failing spectacularly at demonstrating this to be the case, making constant inconsistent and out-of-left-field assumptions, and being demonstrably ignorant of the finer details of the production process.

[Noah]

Why is matching Kuririn's Death count bad? Piccolo is in good company.

Because Krillin is somekind of a joke (not considering Yamcha). Piccolo is a cool character, his sacrifice in last episode was cheap and didn't had impact at all, it was a easy death just to tarnish the glorious history of a character like him and I think he will be probably killed/humilated again in U6 Saga, such a shame.

Also Krillin died in the alternate timeline, so that makes him five.

The hilarious thing will be when if Gohan rage boosts (Which I hope not), it'll still be far less than LOLRAGETA's boost despite Piccolo's circumstance being far worse than Bulma getting slapped, and being the OG rager.

Yeah and his "rage boost" will do nothing against Freeza, in his FIRST FORM! Darn you, Toei.

Ginyu as a frog was in the manga too, nothing contradictory there.

In Episode 22 Bulma makes it known to Jaco, as well as the audience, that she has had a prior encounter with Frog Ginyu. She has only ever had an official prior encounter with Frog Ginyu in the anime filler. Putting 2 and 2 together, using induction, invoking Occam's Razor, etc. we would be led to believe that Super shares a continuity with this bit of anime filler.

Yet for some reason this absolutely cannot be the case? You have to make a stronger claim than "well they didn't explicitly say so..." for why this is not the case. That is, if you're wanting to reasonably convince anyone to share your viewpoint. And if you aren't wanting to reasonably convince people, I don't know why you're posting in the first place.

Can't you guys just accept that DBS is non canon? Let's just try to enjoy the series the way it is

[Sandubadear]

Also Krillin died in the alternate timeline, so that makes him five.

Everyone died in the alternate timeline. It doesn't count.

[Chuquita]

Considering how few episodes these two writers have written so far (especially with how Koyama previously was stuck on Pilaf duty), I'm interested to see how the next four episodes will go.

[Noah]

Considering how few episodes these two writers have written so far (especially with how Koyama previously was stuck on Pilaf duty), I'm interested to see how the next four episodes will go.

I miss slice-of-life episodes we had back then, hope we have a Arc just full of these before U6 Saga gets started
lol, f*** no