You again made an excellent point. Dende flies a lot without getting tired so he should have big Ki for OG DB standards.GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:53 am List done up to the Freeza Saga, it's on my signature now. Decided to wait until both Saiyan and Freeza were done since they're like, 80% official numbers. Work on the Cell Saga will begin soon.
I haven't bothered with GT since forever (I never really cared about it anyway), but I think Heroes is probably the most reliable source to compare GT and Super, even if personally I think SSJ4 ~ SSJG would've been more accurate: Both are stronger, but still comparable to SSJ(3?) fusion, SSJB is just overkill. But hey, it is what it is.Koitsukai wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:01 pm I'mma try to scale DBS and GT to see if we can finally have a fair comparison, using the Buu arc as basis, would be nice to have some feedback.
I'll use smaller numbers so it doesn't become a 0-festa. And a middle ground between high and lowballing characters.
Z:
Majin Buu: 20M
SS3 Goku 30M
Super Buu: 50 M
Gotenks: 52 M
Gohan: 70M
Buutenks: 102M
Buuhan: 120M
Super Vegito: 200M
Kid Buu: 30M
(I think we all agree so far)
GTDBSSpoiler:Thoughts? please feel free to add the side characters I left out, mostly from GT like the hybrids, or Super 17 before absorbing Goku's blasts, or maybe Hit or people from DBS. Or correct numbers that might be off.Spoiler:
The argument most people have is based on calculations and weird interpretations (Just because nobody on GT threatens to destroy the universe with punches they aren't universal, even though nobody stronger than SSJG Goku ever does that either), so might as well just take Heroes' word on it even if Xeno Goku isn't the same as GT Goku.
Still, I think it's a bit hard to scale the two. GT is very short, and other than when everybody gives him Ki vs Yi Xing Long, Goku doesn't improve much. The GT Perfect Files even say SSJ4 is a potential unlock, so I think SSJ4 Goku might be the same right up until that fight. Compare this with how SSJB Goku was getting stronger before, after and during every saga.
Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help
-
ZombieVito
- Banned
- Posts: 6222
- Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
-
Mr Perfect Cell
- Not-So-Newbie
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:47 am
- Location: Hell
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I'm back after finally finding free time from work (It's been a looooong 2 weeks and I even got a few headaches along the way). I'm currently grabin some lunch with da bois since my job is at home most of the time (which means unlimited options on how to spend my breaks!). Anyways I'll respond the best I can to u guys while I'm fueled up.
2. He was dominating 20 who shouldn't be that far from 19 who Vegeta mid diff'd I think that's a reasonable placement.
3.I feel like Pickle had the slight power advantage while 17 stamina balanced the fight to be even (Initaly was going to say speed but piccolo was noted to be a fast boi back in frieza so there speed might be equal).
4. I kind of feel that way too but Semi Cell could do a lil damage to Vegeta while being outclassed (I was more foucused on the gap between them then the multiplier at the time).
5. Not really It's a lil headcanon on my part considering its their last couple weeks on earth. I would assume they would at least try to get a bit stronger to add more muscle in the group.
6. The only Energy consuming attacks were IT Kamehameha and Vegeta's Technique otherwise he prob would only be a lil less than 1/2 at the least (38% gap is still pretty big , Its the same as my Vegeta and 18 and 18 said Vegeta was helpless against her).
7. Arrogance as he was proven wrong in kai being dominated casually. Vegito also mentions holding back too treating the 1st part of the fight in base as a warmup.
8. Buus regen and abilites may be an explanation on how he was doing better. It kind of almost seems like he was more ruthless against vegeta not even allowing the man 10 seconds to recover. Kid buu was blocking buu with his legs and a couple of moments he was caught by surprise of buus bubblegum properties. The main thing that affected my level for good buu is the split from good to evil with evil getting the majority. All in all I conclude that Kid buu was playing with both but ones a flesh and blood human like alien with high durability and limmited stamina while ones a magical regenerating bubble gum with higher stamina.
Humans nearing 1 million even before the 3 years training? Ballsy, I like it.
I don't really mind SSJ Gotenks being weak Pre Rosat since Goku said they might need the Rosat, but Post Rosat he's definitely SSJ3 level. Piccolo suggests Gotenks was the strongest guy Boo fought when he blows up the Rosat door.
Chapter: 492 (DBZ 298), P10.6
Context: after Piccolo blows up the entrance to the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “…You truly are strong…Unfortunately, not even Gotenks there could defeat you…However, no matter how strong you may be, it is now impossible for you to escape here, for the rest of your life…”
[/quote]
1. Well that was more about the gun being stronger than the champ but yeah they're just average humans with a level of 5. (The champ looked like he used up a lot of energy just taking out 2 humans XD)
2. thanks heh heh
3. I just gave gotenks the same gains as trunks and goten got in the rosat and called it a day at the time so that is the simplest lamest explanation I have for thin lol. Piccolo could also be referring to the here and now that even gotenks can't beat buu ( Goku vegeta and gohan are all gone so they're almost never brought up until they fight buu). I also noticed SS3 lvls can be felt from the kaioshin realm (SS3 Goku, SS3 Gotenks, and Gohan) but I don't recall gotenks being sensed all the way there.
It's a kind of sloppy list, but Spirit bomb is haxxed with everyones energy.Besides, the spirit bomb was shown everytime to be > Gokus strongest (Spirit bomb > KK4 in Saiyan saga and Spirit bomb > KK20 in frieza saga) so Kid buu would be a lot Stronger that Goku based on that alone. There has also been many sources i've seen tat made me on the fence on kid buus strength (tbh It kinda makes my head hurtsKoitsukai wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:17 pmI like this, I particularly like the detail of a Suppressed SS3 Goku holding back vs Fat Buu, however what's up with Kid Buu's FP being so close to Vegito and way beyond Buuhan?Mr Perfect Cell wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:19 am I just found this thread and it seems its about power levels so I'm gonna make a Z one
Saiyan saga
Spoiler:
1. uggh how could i forget him yes he is 23000 i just forgot to add him ( I forgot to add several levels of characters)ZombieVito wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:12 pmVery nice list. Some points:Mr Perfect Cell wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:19 am I just found this thread and it seems its about power levels so I'm gonna make a Z one
Saiyan saga
Spoiler:
1) Isn't Goku Ginyu stated to be 23,000?
2) Don't you think you have Piccolo too close to the Super Saiyans before he fuses with God?
3) Shouldn't 17 and Piccolo (After fusing) be equals?
4) Super Saiyan Grade 2 boost seems a little low no?
5) Is there any indication the humans grew stronger before the Cell Games?
6) Tired Goku seems too close to Piccolo and Co. considering he went down almost instantly to the Juniors.
7) Doesn't Boohan say that base Vegetto was still weaker than him?
Good Boo weaker than SS2 Vegeta? I don't know about that. Vegeta couldn't even hit Kid Boo.
2. He was dominating 20 who shouldn't be that far from 19 who Vegeta mid diff'd I think that's a reasonable placement.
3.I feel like Pickle had the slight power advantage while 17 stamina balanced the fight to be even (Initaly was going to say speed but piccolo was noted to be a fast boi back in frieza so there speed might be equal).
4. I kind of feel that way too but Semi Cell could do a lil damage to Vegeta while being outclassed (I was more foucused on the gap between them then the multiplier at the time).
5. Not really It's a lil headcanon on my part considering its their last couple weeks on earth. I would assume they would at least try to get a bit stronger to add more muscle in the group.
6. The only Energy consuming attacks were IT Kamehameha and Vegeta's Technique otherwise he prob would only be a lil less than 1/2 at the least (38% gap is still pretty big , Its the same as my Vegeta and 18 and 18 said Vegeta was helpless against her).
7. Arrogance as he was proven wrong in kai being dominated casually. Vegito also mentions holding back too treating the 1st part of the fight in base as a warmup.
8. Buus regen and abilites may be an explanation on how he was doing better. It kind of almost seems like he was more ruthless against vegeta not even allowing the man 10 seconds to recover. Kid buu was blocking buu with his legs and a couple of moments he was caught by surprise of buus bubblegum properties. The main thing that affected my level for good buu is the split from good to evil with evil getting the majority. All in all I conclude that Kid buu was playing with both but ones a flesh and blood human like alien with high durability and limmited stamina while ones a magical regenerating bubble gum with higher stamina.
I think you made a mistake with the spoiler tags lol. Same with the "Dudes with gun > 6.66", the sign is supposed to go the other way around, unless you think those guys are stronger than Satan despite them being one shot by him.Mr Perfect Cell wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:19 am I just found this thread and it seems its about power levels so I'm gonna make a Z one
Humans nearing 1 million even before the 3 years training? Ballsy, I like it.
I don't really mind SSJ Gotenks being weak Pre Rosat since Goku said they might need the Rosat, but Post Rosat he's definitely SSJ3 level. Piccolo suggests Gotenks was the strongest guy Boo fought when he blows up the Rosat door.
Chapter: 492 (DBZ 298), P10.6
Context: after Piccolo blows up the entrance to the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “…You truly are strong…Unfortunately, not even Gotenks there could defeat you…However, no matter how strong you may be, it is now impossible for you to escape here, for the rest of your life…”
[/quote]
1. Well that was more about the gun being stronger than the champ but yeah they're just average humans with a level of 5. (The champ looked like he used up a lot of energy just taking out 2 humans XD)
2. thanks heh heh
3. I just gave gotenks the same gains as trunks and goten got in the rosat and called it a day at the time so that is the simplest lamest explanation I have for thin lol. Piccolo could also be referring to the here and now that even gotenks can't beat buu ( Goku vegeta and gohan are all gone so they're almost never brought up until they fight buu). I also noticed SS3 lvls can be felt from the kaioshin realm (SS3 Goku, SS3 Gotenks, and Gohan) but I don't recall gotenks being sensed all the way there.
-
QuakingStar
- Temporarily Banned
- Posts: 657
- Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:18 pm
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I would say at minimum it could be 40,000x. We also have to remember the Super Saiyan 4 form is directly compared to a hypothetical Vegito in power gain and at this time Potara's Formula was still A x B according it's original formula, though in Super it's A + B x "tens of times".Kaboom wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:52 pm Judging from what we've been given about Super Saiyan 2 and 3's power boosts in more recent years, and applying that to Goku's fight(s) with Baby... then Super Saiyan 4 being a whopping 40,000x power boost seems fitting. That's with Great Ape's 10-fold boost on top of SS3, and then SS4 being another 10-fold boost on top of that. That lines up pretty well with how I remember Goku vs Baby progressing, but I'm not so sure about he and Vegeta's subsequent uses in the Super 17 and Shadow Dragons arcs.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
"AxB" as a formula for Potara Fusion has never been meant to be taken literally, never should be taken literally, and actually can't even be taken literally after you think about it for a few extra seconds.
[ BlueSky | Bsky: DBS Plots | DeviantArt | Twitter (Depreciated) ]
[PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader | Switch FC: SW-4304-7361-2824 | ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone") ]
[PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader | Switch FC: SW-4304-7361-2824 | ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone") ]
-
QuakingStar
- Temporarily Banned
- Posts: 657
- Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:18 pm
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Even discounting AxB we would then have to assume it's the same as Fusion Dance's formula which is what DBS went with for Potara making it A + B x "tens of times" which still makes SS4's actual power gain astronomical.
-
QuakingStar
- Temporarily Banned
- Posts: 657
- Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:18 pm
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I actually undersold this, it's supposed to be a hypothetical Vegito's full power considering they are treating Vegito as transformation and since we know Goten and Trunks do not have SS2 or 3, yet Gotenks can use SS2 and 3.. while Goku can use both and Vegeta can use SS2.. this means Vegito's full power could very well be Super Saiyan 3, easily. So.. this means SS4 could be comparable to A + B x "tens of times" x 400. Or if we go by the theory that some of you have about base fusion being the combination of each users highest form, it means Vegito would be Goku x 400 + Vegeta x 100 x "tens of times" x 400. Basically.. no matter how it's sliced SS4's power is insane, and underestimated.QuakingStar wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:24 am Even discounting AxB we would then have to assume it's the same as Fusion Dance's formula which is what DBS went with for Potara making it A + B x "tens of times" which still makes SS4's actual power gain astronomical.
-
GreatSaiyaman123
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
- Location: Somewhere beyond the sea
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I wonder if Yamu and Spopovich could also be so strong based on their flying, but their zombie-like stamina could also explain that.ZombieVito wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:05 pm You again made an excellent point. Dende flies a lot without getting tired so he should have big Ki for OG DB standards.
1. But guns don't have power levels, and even if they do the Farmer with Shotgun in the Saiyan Saga was just a 5. Yeah he did get a bit tired, but he also ran a pretty big distance to get up there.Mr Perfect Cell wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:42 pm 1. Well that was more about the gun being stronger than the champ but yeah they're just average humans with a level of 5. (The champ looked like he used up a lot of energy just taking out 2 humans XD)
3. I just gave gotenks the same gains as trunks and goten got in the rosat and called it a day at the time so that is the simplest lamest explanation I have for thin lol. Piccolo could also be referring to the here and now that even gotenks can't beat buu ( Goku vegeta and gohan are all gone so they're almost never brought up until they fight buu). I also noticed SS3 lvls can be felt from the kaioshin realm (SS3 Goku, SS3 Gotenks, and Gohan) but I don't recall gotenks being sensed all the way there.
3. To be fair, that's exactly what I do with Gotenks' gains too lol. Goku thinks it's weird he can't sense Gotenks and Boo fighting before he finds out they're in the Rosat so he was expecting to sense them, but I'm not sure if Goku sensed Gotenks before that.
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!
-
ZombieVito
- Banned
- Posts: 6222
- Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
They have always been weird. Sure they have zombie-like stamina but would that be enough to fly with a freaking aura? Not even BoZ Goku or Piccolo could do that.GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:27 pm I wonder if Yamu and Spopovich could also be so strong based on their flying, but their zombie-like stamina could also explain that.
-
GreatSaiyaman123
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
- Location: Somewhere beyond the sea
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Going by the flight aura they’d be like, Raditz level.ZombieVito wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:41 am They have always been weird. Sure they have zombie-like stamina but would that be enough to fly with a freaking aura? Not even BoZ Goku or Piccolo could do that.
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!
-
FPSSJ4_Goku
- Regular
- Posts: 569
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:33 pm
- Location: New York, US
- Contact:
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Does (A's strongest shared form + B's strongest shared form x3 = base Metamoran fusion) and (A's max power + B's max power x100 = base Potara form) work for the fusion dance and Potara fusion?
If the fusions confuse you, think about it like this. Goku and Vegeta both share Super Saiyan Blue right now, so a current base Gogeta would be (SS Blue Goku + SS Blue Vegeta) x3. Goku has True Ultra Instinct and Vegeta has Ultra Ego, so a current base Vegetto would be (Perfected UI Goku + UE Vegeta) x100.
If the fusions confuse you, think about it like this. Goku and Vegeta both share Super Saiyan Blue right now, so a current base Gogeta would be (SS Blue Goku + SS Blue Vegeta) x3. Goku has True Ultra Instinct and Vegeta has Ultra Ego, so a current base Vegetto would be (Perfected UI Goku + UE Vegeta) x100.
So, you decided to read my signature, eh?
If you'd like, check out my YouTube channel, and maybe subscribe?
If you'd like, check out my YouTube channel, and maybe subscribe?
-
GreatSaiyaman123
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
- Location: Somewhere beyond the sea
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Can't say I'm sure about the x3 and x100, but I like the idea of Metamorian using the strongest equal power and Potara taking their absolute highest powers. Makes a lot of sense since the dance requires them to be on equal levels.FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:32 pm Does (A's strongest shared form + B's strongest shared form x3 = base Metamoran fusion) and (A's max power + B's max power x100 = base Potara form) work for the fusion dance and Potara fusion?
If the fusions confuse you, think about it like this. Goku and Vegeta both share Super Saiyan Blue right now, so a current base Gogeta would be (SS Blue Goku + SS Blue Vegeta) x3. Goku has True Ultra Instinct and Vegeta has Ultra Ego, so a current base Vegetto would be (Perfected UI Goku + UE Vegeta) x100.
As for the multiplier, I think x3 works even if it's on the lower end. That's a fitting level for Base Gotenks and Gogeta. Potara's x100 is a bit nasty: Base Vegetto is 100x SSJB? Eh... Not to mention Kibitoshin probably isn't 100x Kaioshin. Hell he might not even be 2x stronger... I think it depends, but we can generalize as being at least in the double digits.
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Since ssj3 Goku was suppressed against fat Boo and he literally kept his power a secret up until pure boo since being dead he didn't want to interfer anymore, i have fat Boo >= suppressed ssj3 Goku = ssj2 X2GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:43 pm How does Fat Boo compare to the SSJ2s and SSJ3s in the Boo Saga? With a 4x gap between both forms, there’s a lot of room for Boo, and his fight with SSJ3 Goku doesn’t make things clearer.
Right in the middle between both forms is the lowest I’d go, it’s a good middle ground. I think I prefer him to be at least 3x SSJ2 Goku though, but 90% of SSJ3 at most.
Gotenks has a ssj3 of about X2 ssj2 too, since he isn't trained like Goku with the form and piccolo didn't notice any difference between Gotenks' ssj3 and Goku's suppressed ssj3.
Also, the difference between super and fat Boo (if there's any) is slight
In general : fullpower Goku ≥ ultimate Gohan >gotenks >super boo≈ fat Boo ≥ suppressed goku
All of this fills in perfectly in a X2 gap from suppressed to fullpower Goku
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Gogeta and vegito are always described as special perks in the fusion world. Vegito breaks basic potara rules and Gogeta breaks metamor, being as strong as Vegito.GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:56 pmCan't say I'm sure about the x3 and x100, but I like the idea of Metamorian using the strongest equal power and Potara taking their absolute highest powers. Makes a lot of sense since the dance requires them to be on equal levels.FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:32 pm Does (A's strongest shared form + B's strongest shared form x3 = base Metamoran fusion) and (A's max power + B's max power x100 = base Potara form) work for the fusion dance and Potara fusion?
If the fusions confuse you, think about it like this. Goku and Vegeta both share Super Saiyan Blue right now, so a current base Gogeta would be (SS Blue Goku + SS Blue Vegeta) x3. Goku has True Ultra Instinct and Vegeta has Ultra Ego, so a current base Vegetto would be (Perfected UI Goku + UE Vegeta) x100.
As for the multiplier, I think x3 works even if it's on the lower end. That's a fitting level for Base Gotenks and Gogeta. Potara's x100 is a bit nasty: Base Vegetto is 100x SSJB? Eh... Not to mention Kibitoshin probably isn't 100x Kaioshin. Hell he might not even be 2x stronger... I think it depends, but we can generalize as being at least in the double digits.
Kibitoshin and gotenks are normal fusions that fall under the rule, if you try to rationalize Goku and Vegeta's fusions through them, things aren't gonna head up. It doesn't work, it's like trying to explain how to do addictions by talking about multiplications or powers.
-
GreatSaiyaman123
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
- Location: Somewhere beyond the sea
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
List finished, as far as the original series is concerned. I’ll be adding Super soon, most likely the manga version since the anime is dead and had too many cooks on the kitchen to be consistent.
Have to say, I’m proud of this list. Even managed to fit in the official multipliers for fusion… but Super might make me change this.
Have to say, I’m proud of this list. Even managed to fit in the official multipliers for fusion… but Super might make me change this.
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I like the list, specially the DB arcs that usually tend to be restrained to the 400PL Raditz provided later on.GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:54 pm List finished, as far as the original series is concerned. I’ll be adding Super soon, most likely the manga version since the anime is dead and had too many cooks on the kitchen to be consistent.
Have to say, I’m proud of this list. Even managed to fit in the official multipliers for fusion… but Super might make me change this.
Minor picks:
- I would have Android arc Piccolo a little lower, not that close to the SS. I can't recall when Krilin said that, but couldn't he be talking about the SS level seen after Goku and Trunks met? 250M is too much for me, I don't think he needs to be beyond 200M for everything to work out.
- Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho I think should be much stronger than 180M in order to stall 2nd Cell like it did. Cell wasn't harmed at all, but it was strong enough to keep him "trapped". Slightly above A-16 I'd say in order to do no harm but be a pain in the ass nevertheless.
- I think Buffed Perfect Cell vs Trunks should be higher and not marginally stronger than Trunks.
- Shin I disagree, the flimsy evidence of his encounter with Piccolo never was enough to convince me.
We also know Shin, if stronger, wasn't worlds apart, only a notch above him... and that's hardly something that would make Piccolo too afraid to fight or treat him as if he's facing an overwhelming power. In fact the numbers you have -or the conclusion most people come to- don't match Piccolo's reaction (1,500 vs 2,150), which I think was more about the rank Shin has rather than how much stronger he was. Shin also mentions "he knows who I am" or something like that afterwards, so if he telepathically said anything, to me it was what he was rather than his power, that ended up being nothing really.
- I don't think the kids grew much stronger individually in the ROSAT, I think the implication was that they mostly trained as Gotenks, so while I think they should get stronger on their own, the boost you give to them seems to big for "passive growth".
- Agreed on Yakon and Dabura, two characters that always make people discuss about where they stand. Pui Pui as well, 180k is good enough for a shitty little creature that probably is as strong due to the Majin stamp on his forehead. Before all that he might be below 100k at best.
Overall, great list, good job. Looking forward to the DBS list.
-
GreatSaiyaman123
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
- Location: Somewhere beyond the sea
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Koitsukai wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:13 pm- Kuririn compared Piccolo to a SSJ well after Goku and Vegeta fought the Androids. Piccolo was pretty keen on fighting the Androids, so I think he's comfortably above Trunks and on the middle of the road between old and new SSJs.GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:54 pm I like the list, specially the DB arcs that usually tend to be restrained to the 400PL Raditz provided later on.
Minor picks:
- I would have Android arc Piccolo a little lower, not that close to the SS. I can't recall when Krilin said that, but couldn't he be talking about the SS level seen after Goku and Trunks met? 250M is too much for me, I don't think he needs to be beyond 200M for everything to work out.
- Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho I think should be much stronger than 180M in order to stall 2nd Cell like it did. Cell wasn't harmed at all, but it was strong enough to keep him "trapped". Slightly above A-16 I'd say in order to do no harm but be a pain in the ass nevertheless.
- I think Buffed Perfect Cell vs Trunks should be higher and not marginally stronger than Trunks.
- Shin I disagree, the flimsy evidence of his encounter with Piccolo never was enough to convince me.
We also know Shin, if stronger, wasn't worlds apart, only a notch above him... and that's hardly something that would make Piccolo too afraid to fight or treat him as if he's facing an overwhelming power. In fact the numbers you have -or the conclusion most people come to- don't match Piccolo's reaction (1,500 vs 2,150), which I think was more about the rank Shin has rather than how much stronger he was. Shin also mentions "he knows who I am" or something like that afterwards, so if he telepathically said anything, to me it was what he was rather than his power, that ended up being nothing really.
- I don't think the kids grew much stronger individually in the ROSAT, I think the implication was that they mostly trained as Gotenks, so while I think they should get stronger on their own, the boost you give to them seems to big for "passive growth".
- Agreed on Yakon and Dabura, two characters that always make people discuss about where they stand. Pui Pui as well, 180k is good enough for a shitty little creature that probably is as strong due to the Majin stamp on his forehead. Before all that he might be below 100k at best.
Overall, great list, good job. Looking forward to the DBS list.
- That seems to be the common sense, but there's a problem. Tenshinhan not only didn't use the Shin Kikoho against the Androids earlier, but he spent several chapters seeing Cell wreck everyone and complaining about how useless he was. What he did there relied mostly on him getting the jump on Cell, and if he were that powerful I'm sure he would have blasted 18 and ruined Cell's plan instead of just buying time.
- Maybe. Buff Cell is sort of an afterthought, and the bigger the boost Cell has vs Trunks, the more awkward the small boost vs Gohan feels. I think he could be at 2.24 billion (1.33x) or so, though.
- That's right. I went and checked Gohan's statement about the kids surpassing him, and he never says they might surpass him soon. I think I could just keep Trunks the same and make Goten close the gap. Might even nerf the kids a bit, but probably not. This level feels right with their Cell Jr fight later.
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!
-
DBZ Expert
- Not-So-Newbie
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 10:22 pm
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
What is your gap between Ultimate Gohan and Super Vegetto? I have it as a 10x gap. If I use numbers then:
Ultimate Gohan: 60
Gohan-Boo: 100
Super Vegetto: 600
Ultimate Gohan: 60
Gohan-Boo: 100
Super Vegetto: 600
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Yeah, around 10x I think works. Considering Super Vegito wasn't pulling a Jiren on Buuhan, he was blocking, dodging, using ki attacks, instead of standing still and using one finger, I wouldn't say that was a fight with a gargantuan gap, even though his superiority was unquestionable.DBZ Expert wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:01 pm What is your gap between Ultimate Gohan and Super Vegetto? I have it as a 10x gap. If I use numbers then:
Ultimate Gohan: 60
Gohan-Boo: 100
Super Vegetto: 600
If that fight had a 10x gap, which seems a bit much considering how it went, then with Gohan the difference would be maybe twice that, at most.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
For the GT-Super comparisons, I've been going with the idea that SSG is 10x SS3 (8x SS), and SS4 is 10x Golden Oozaru (10x SS), which would make SSB > SS4 > SSG as SSB in the manga ranges anywhere from 2x to 10x stronger than SSG in its unmastered state already. Heroes seems to confirm this too, as Xeno Goku seems to be stronger than CC Goku in equivalent forms but CC is even or stronger in Blue.
Long are the days where I thought SSG > everything in GT, but I agree that by the time we get to the Fused Zamasu powerlevels, GT is unable to keep up outside of SS4 Gogeta.
I had made a list a long time ago but it needs reworking. As I said in the other thread, I like to keep the idea that Super Vegetto, SS4 Goku and SSG Goku are all around the same tier of strength. Rildo should be compared to Mr. Boo and Bebi Vegeta 2 to Gohan Boo as the "strongest Ki." I don't think you need crazy gymnastics or headcanon to keep the GT powerlevels grounded to Z's, but with Super that's different game.
Long are the days where I thought SSG > everything in GT, but I agree that by the time we get to the Fused Zamasu powerlevels, GT is unable to keep up outside of SS4 Gogeta.
I had made a list a long time ago but it needs reworking. As I said in the other thread, I like to keep the idea that Super Vegetto, SS4 Goku and SSG Goku are all around the same tier of strength. Rildo should be compared to Mr. Boo and Bebi Vegeta 2 to Gohan Boo as the "strongest Ki." I don't think you need crazy gymnastics or headcanon to keep the GT powerlevels grounded to Z's, but with Super that's different game.
-
GreatSaiyaman123
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
- Location: Somewhere beyond the sea
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Same, more or less.DBZ Expert wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:01 pm What is your gap between Ultimate Gohan and Super Vegetto? I have it as a 10x gap. If I use numbers then:
Ultimate Gohan: 60
Gohan-Boo: 100
Super Vegetto: 600
Ultimate Gohan: 360
Gohan-Boo: 600
Super Vegetto: 5,000
Base Vegetto > SSJ3 Goku, so Super Vegetto could easily be 100x SSJ3 Goku. Ultimate Gohan is many times stronger than Goku, but I don't think he gets to be tens of times stronger. Just a neat 10x at most. SSJ Gotenks can just be in SSJ3 Goku's level without surpassing him.
You mean SSJB?Yuji wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:28 pm I had made a list a long time ago but it needs reworking. As I said in the other thread, I like to keep the idea that Super Vegetto, SS4 Goku and SSG Goku are all around the same tier of strength.
If not, then I can definitely see all those guys being in the same level, more or less. I don't have anything against SSJ4 Goku ~ Boo Saga Super Vegetto, but I always thought the comparison being made was to a hypothetical GT Super Vegetto.
In practice, SSJG is basically a SSJ4, and SSJB is basically a SSJ5, so SSJ4 being on pair with Blue and just blowing God out of the water always felt wrong for me. Even if I want to take Heroes seriously, Xeno Goku isn't even the same guy as GT Goku.
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!