TheUltimateNinja wrote:I wonder how fusion will work out now that Goku's much weaker than Vegeta.
TheMikado wrote:
That's weird seeing them in a spot like that considering someone told me the manga lacks tension.
There's still no tension at all since they can fuse at any time and win easily.
Refresh my memory but does fusing replenish their stamina? cause if not... they're still fcked, there are no more senzu's...
This is what I'm wondering as well. That's the only thing that can add tension since otherwise they should easily stomp Merged Zamasu.
If they use the Fusion Dance then they'll definitely be weakened since Vegeta has to lower his power to match 10% of Goku.
LightBing wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:There's still no tension at all since they can fuse at any time and win easily.
You only know this because you saw the anime. The manga being behind takes away almost all the tension, you already know what's going to happen.
Actually I knew this would happen in the anime as well, there was still tension because Black and Zamasu were so strong I was expecting their fusion to be even stronger than Vegetto. But here they're both complete jobbers who can't possibly stand a chance unless Vegetto is weakened somehow.
emperior wrote:So Vegeta could overcome this huge SSB weakness in one year but both him and Goku couldn't in three years of training in the RoSaT? This is bullshit.
And why doesn't Black have this incredible weakness?
This chapter would have been good without that stupid SSG-fanservice. Black is garbage in the manga, Toyotaro missed so many opportunities with him and also turned him into a generic villain. He didn't have to go the anime route but he could have surely made Black much more interesting than what he did.
I keep saying this but both the anime and manga had to come up with some reason to make Goku stronger by a factor of 10. Both came back to bite them because anime made up this super dangerous reason Goku couldn't do it again, but has to keep using it because Goku was getting into dangerous situations in the future but then turn around and give no good reason for Goku not going 10xkk again even just 4/5x?? Basically the outline screwed both because they had to come up with a onetime reason why Goku was ten times stronger than Vegeta and both methods came back and bit them later because the scaling is so stupid.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:There's still no tension at all since they can fuse at any time and win easily.
You only know this because you saw the anime. The manga being behind takes away almost all the tension, you already know what's going to happen.
And the fact that goku had the Zeno button in both versions, completely remove the tension, because goku should have press the button earlier when they we're figthing zamasu and black in their first trip,and Bam the arc is over,is the same case as rof.I hate to say this but super introducing more gods ruin the lore and story
Last edited by The gr on Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Shouldn't repeatedly going Blue still be far more draining than simply staying in the form? Why didn't Goku fight Cell in Base and only go SSJ for brief moments if this strategy works?
Part of Gokus training was making his SSJ as natural as his base state hence FSSJ. It was to eliminate the stamina drain so there was no point to doing that.
emperior wrote:So Vegeta could overcome this huge SSB weakness in one year but both him and Goku couldn't in three years of training in the RoSaT? This is bullshit.
And why doesn't Black have this incredible weakness?
This chapter would have been good without that stupid SSG-fanservice. Black is garbage in the manga, Toyotaro missed so many opportunities with him and also turned him into a generic villain. He didn't have to go the anime route but he could have surely made Black much more interesting than what he did.
The art was also a little bad at times, especially for Vegeta's muscles.
Maybe Vegeta didn't overcome the weakness, he isn't using the SSB fully, just little glimpses of it.
Things don't work for Black exactly as they do for the others. Like the rose hair or the better Zenkai boost.
I think the SSG looks great. One of its characteristics is the very fit muscles, which should affect the agility, speed and things like that too. That's why Vegeta is so good dodging the attacks now. Then goes blue only the moment he hits the enemy. And he doesn't drain as much. Pure strategy!
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Shouldn't repeatedly going Blue still be far more draining than simply staying in the form? Why didn't Goku fight Cell in Base and only go SSJ for brief moments if this strategy works?
Part of Gokus training was making his SSJ as natural as his base state hence FSSJ. It was to eliminate the stamina drain so there was no point to doing that.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:There's still no tension at all since they can fuse at any time and win easily.
You only know this because you saw the anime. The manga being behind takes away almost all the tension, you already know what's going to happen.
Exactly. I don't mind people disliking or even hating the manga. I have a lot of gripes with it too. I find it odd though the whole "You don't know everything, just wait" excuse is fine for the anime, but you don't have to do that with the manga.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Since Goku can no longer go blue and Vegeta is ok with SSG alone. And Vegito SSG should suffice though. I think it'ss pretty clear Vegito will finish Zamasu and that's it.
LightBing wrote:The best thing about this chapter is the removal of the SSJB weakness. I'm happy Toyotarõ decided to let go of it, it was pretty castrating. Eagerly waiting for the complete translation.
It's not the same one. The "can't hold it for long" is brand new if I remember correctly. Now they can transform into SSJB several times without losing power. While before Vegeta lost a whooping 90% from transforming twice.
The original weakness was that you couldn't transform in it over and over. He fixed that by adding another weakness that there was no mention of beforehand.
I just can't see why Toyotaro has to make the God forms work pretty much the same way as SSj2 and 3 other then to purely justify God's existence. In fact, if you go by the Hit fight and this newly introduced weakness, Blue is only an slight upgrade over SSJ3.
It's not the same one. The "can't hold it for long" is brand new if I remember correctly. Now they can transform into SSJB several times without losing power. While before Vegeta lost a whooping 90% from transforming twice.
The original weakness was that you couldn't transform in it over and over. He fixed that by adding another weakness that there was no mention of beforehand.
I just can't see why Toyotaro has to make the God forms work pretty much the same way as SSj2 and 3 other then to purely justify God's existence. In fact, if you go by the Hit fight and this newly introduced weakness, Blue is only an slight upgrade over SSJ3.
His love for SSG is strong. I do like seeing SSG some more, but not at the cost of seemingly reducing SSB to be similar to SSJ3.
"Sighs...At my age, I already have a woman who follows me around thinking she's my wife. Oh! My youth's rotting away!" - Ataru Moroboshi
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Shouldn't repeatedly going Blue still be far more draining than simply staying in the form? Why didn't Goku fight Cell in Base and only go SSJ for brief moments if this strategy works?
Part of Gokus training was making his SSJ as natural as his base state hence FSSJ. It was to eliminate the stamina drain so there was no point to doing that.
Why didn't he use it against Buu, then?
Wait use what? If you mean popping in and out of SSJ3 it doesn't exactly look like you can do that with that transformation and if you can it might be something you need to train to do. Isn't that what SSJ Gotenks did?
LightBing wrote:
It's not the same one. The "can't hold it for long" is brand new if I remember correctly. Now they can transform into SSJB several times without losing power. While before Vegeta lost a whooping 90% from transforming twice.
The original weakness was that you couldn't transform in it over and over. He fixed that by adding another weakness that there was no mention of beforehand.
I just can't see why Toyotaro has to make the God forms work pretty much the same way as SSj2 and 3 other then to purely justify God's existence. In fact, if you go by the Hit fight and this newly introduced weakness, Blue is only an slight upgrade over SSJ3.
His love for SSG is strong. I do like seeing SSG some more, but not at the cost of seemingly reducing SSB to be similar to SSJ3.
SSBlue is such a shit form in the manga, not only does repeatedly using it drain a lot of energy, merely staying in the form is heavily draining as well. I can't believe they had the nerve to criticize Freeza about his Golden form.
It's not the same one. The "can't hold it for long" is brand new if I remember correctly. Now they can transform into SSJB several times without losing power. While before Vegeta lost a whooping 90% from transforming twice.
The original weakness was that you couldn't transform in it over and over. He fixed that by adding another weakness that there was no mention of beforehand.
I just can't see why Toyotaro has to make the God forms work pretty much the same way as SSj2 and 3 other then to purely justify God's existence. In fact, if you go by the Hit fight and this newly introduced weakness, Blue is only an slight upgrade over SSJ3.
We have more context than the fight with Hit. SS3 was crushed by Beerus, while SSG and, therefore SSB, could at least resist a nice fight against him.
Less stamina drain, take it as Goku's fight with Freeza when he was using KK for short bursts.
Its weird tho since this isnt anything new, and why the hell didnt Goku use this against kid boo? he should know how to use this cause he's been doin it since saiyan arc with KK.
SansrivaaL wrote:The only tension this is giving me, is if Zeno destroys FT's timeline as well.
I mean he kinda has too Trunks and Mai can't just be the only surviving humans and still live on earth it would be weird.
I guess the universe destruction could have just been Toei showing Zeno has the power and the mind to do that so it builds tension for the universe survival arc.
The only other way the arc could end is the Grand Priest shows up and reverses time back to when Black arrives in Trunks timeline and they kill Zamasu and black before they kill everyone.
it says it still consumes stamina, more than SSG so it's still conserving stamina. It's kinda nice that they can't abuse it the same way Goku can't really abuse his most powerful form or the way grade 3 has drawbacks.
Less stamina drain, take it as Goku's fight with Freeza when he was using KK for short bursts.
Its weird tho since this isnt anything new, and why the hell didnt Goku use this against kid boo? he should know how to use this cause he's been doin it since saiyan arc with KK.
That still makes no sense. Black is still supposed to be stronger.
