"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[MathSSJ]

There is a huge difference between what the manga did and the anime did.

In the anime, goku forgot the seal and the urn after he also forgot the senzu beans. It became too much of a plot point and lead to the goku is retarded bandwagon.

In the manga, Goku mistook the coupon for the seal, it's an honest mistake and a pretty funny gag. Not to mention Goku even clarified that this technique is not his thing, addressing it.

This is ridiculous.

It's a piece of paper, how couldn't Goku take 2 seconds to turn it back and look at what he was picking?

Goku, despite being fully aware of Blue's weakness, reverted back to Super Saiyan after fighting Zamasu while Black is right next to him fighting Vegeta. That's an insanely stupid move in the the one thing Goku is genuinely good at: Fighting. He was also portrayed as being borderline incapable of following a simple line of thought in Chapter 18 and had to constantly ask questions in order for Toyotaro to exposition dumb the audience about the entire plot.

How can people say this character has been portrayed well in the manga is something I can't understand. It's not better then the clusterfuck that was the anime, but at least there he didn't feel like a background prop in the story arc that his own actions kicked into gear.

[Totamo]

There is a huge difference between what the manga did and the anime did.

In the anime, goku forgot the seal and the urn after he also forgot the senzu beans. It became too much of a plot point and lead to the goku is retarded bandwagon.

In the manga, Goku mistook the coupon for the seal, it's an honest mistake and a pretty funny gag. Not to mention Goku even clarified that this technique is not his thing, addressing it.

This is ridiculous.

It's a piece of paper, how couldn't Goku take 2 seconds to turn it back and look at what he was picking?

Goku, despite being fully aware of Blue's weakness, reverted back to Super Saiyan after fighting Zamasu while Black is right next to him fighting Vegeta. That's an insanely stupid move in the the one thing Goku is genuinely good at: Fighting. He was also portrayed as being borderline incapable of following a simple line of thought in Chapter 18 and had to constantly ask questions in order for Toyotaro to exposition dumb the audience about the entire plot.

How can people say this character has been portrayed well in the manga is something I can't understand. It's not better then the clusterfuck that was the anime, but at least there he didn't feel like a background prop in the story arc that his own actions kicked into gear.

I disagree with you wholeheartedly, first of all, I said it was a mistake. but an honest one. Have you never took a piece of paper with the wrong imformation on it? I know genius's who have made that same mistake and he has only done it once.

Second of all, Goku's opponent was Zamasu. He wasn't even done fighting zamasu. I remember that fight very well. Goku was still fighting him until Zamasu destroyed his senzus then Goku realized they were screwed. Vegeta was still fighting black until trunks saved him. Goku was never going to fight black so why the hell does that matter?

Third , the questions Goku were asking weren't stupid though. In fact dumb people are the ones who don't ask questions about things they don't know. Whis happily answered them as well and that was the end.

These points are idiotic and I recommend you actually read the damn manga before making such statements. Goku is exaggerated at times in the anime, something most agree with but in the manga Goku explains things that would have been explained to him, outsmarts his opponent and shows the battle genius he is that Z didn't show.

Unless you have concrete evidence to say Goku in the super manga is the same as the anime then you are making false claims.

[Miracles]

Unless you have concrete evidence to say Goku in the super manga is the same as the anime then you are making false claims.

The anime Goku bumbles....Vegeta in manga also says it's just like Kakarot to mess up.
There is continuity going on here.

[Totamo]

Unless you have concrete evidence to say Goku in the super manga is the same as the anime then you are making false claims.

The anime Goku bumbles....Vegeta in manga also says it's just like Kakarot to mess up.
There is continuity going on here.

That's true and I have said it as well. Goku isn't very smart and he makes mistakes, but the issue many have is at times it's exaggerated to 11.

the manga doesn't do that.

[The gr]

!

- Unique attacks. Just like SSB+Kaioken, once again Toei had the balls to do something creative while Toyotaro doesn't and failed to impress me again because of that.
.

I disagree the kaioken isn't anything original, toei just recycled that from goku vs pikkon.

[TheMikado]

There is a huge difference between what the manga did and the anime did.

In the anime, goku forgot the seal and the urn after he also forgot the senzu beans. It became too much of a plot point and lead to the goku is retarded bandwagon.

In the manga, Goku mistook the coupon for the seal, it's an honest mistake and a pretty funny gag. Not to mention Goku even clarified that this technique is not his thing, addressing it.

This is ridiculous.

It's a piece of paper, how couldn't Goku take 2 seconds to turn it back and look at what he was picking?

Goku, despite being fully aware of Blue's weakness, reverted back to Super Saiyan after fighting Zamasu while Black is right next to him fighting Vegeta. That's an insanely stupid move in the the one thing Goku is genuinely good at: Fighting. He was also portrayed as being borderline incapable of following a simple line of thought in Chapter 18 and had to constantly ask questions in order for Toyotaro to exposition dumb the audience about the entire plot.

How can people say this character has been portrayed well in the manga is something I can't understand. It's not better then the clusterfuck that was the anime, but at least there he didn't feel like a background prop in the story arc that his own actions kicked into gear.

Sounds like you just want to hate the manga and I guess that makes every bank teller, cashier, etc who has ever given someone the wrong bill a total idiot. The difference is Manga Goku forgets all the time, it would be the equivalent of going to McDonalds and having the cashier forget both you food and your change to the point where you start wondering how they've managed to keep their job vs them simply handing you a $1 bill instead of a $10.

[LightBing]

Last time I went to McDonald's they forgot half of the ban from my burguer. Even if it was three in the morning, how does that happen when it's literally your job? Same thing applies here.

While these are characters, they are meant to represent humans, creatures who make mistakes, have tendencies, emotions..., you know all these splendid things which gives us personality.

Arguing that a character should have acted flawlessly is usually a very weak argument. Because that's not what people do and characters are people.

[sintzu]

Once again Toei had the balls to do something creative while Toyotaro doesn't.

What's creative about relying on Goku and Trunks for everything ? Having Vegeta as the main character while those 2 do nothing ? that's something you'll NEVER see Toei do but Toyotaro did it so if anyone has balls it's him. I'd go as far as to say that what we're seeing in the manga is more or less what Toriyama wrote but Toei were too afraid to go with it.

[HeroR]

I now understand why a lot of people like the manga better and defend it far more than the anime.

Its written and drawn by a fan and it shows. Toyo loves to play homages and explains things that we the fans always wanted to know.

Does it mean it's well written, no. But the Cell saga isn't either and people praise the shit out of that.

He didn't forget the urn. He thought Vegeta had it since he was trying to find Trunks since they didn't know if he was still alive. Roshi, again, never gave Goku the seal. The only thing Goku forgot were the Senzus.

!

- Unique attacks. Just like SSB+Kaioken, once again Toei had the balls to do something creative while Toyotaro doesn't and failed to impress me again because of that.
.

I disagree the kaioken isn't anything original, toei just recycled that from goku vs pikkon.

Big different. Goku using the Kaioken against Pikkon wasn't a big deal, it was one and done. You could removed it completely from the fight and it wouldn't changed anything. Also, the design was completely different. In Super, they turned it Goku's trump card and not a one time thing and gave an explanation why Goku could suddenly used it.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Well, this place never changes.

Anyway, I haven't read any translations yet, but I pretty much get the gist of the chapter. In my opinion, it's fine. Nothing special, but I don't mind it. I still don't like Vegeta having SSG, but the implementation works, I must admit. I'm also kind of annoyed that the extent of Goku and Black's interaction in this arc was non-existent, it really makes stealing Goku's body seem even more idiotic than the idea on its own. It's obvious that Toyotaro wanted to implement Vegeta's in an interesting way, one companion to his rivalry with Goku, but quite frankly, Toyotaro is utterly useless with him. These things come together to compound on the more unspoken flaws of the FT Arc; The protagonists are boring. Seriously, why is this story even happening if the protagonists aren't getting any progress out of it? Having cool villains is nice and all, but they can't support the weight all on their own.

I still think that this story is competent enough in its own fucked up Dragon Ball Super way, but it's basically level with my opinion of the anime version at this point. Considering I hold the manga to a much lower standard, that's a very bad thing.

[TheMathemagician]

-Chapter 22-

Probably the most disappointing chapter of this arc.

Like I said before, Goku treating SSG as normal form is bullshit and now Vegeta has it too. Not gonna lose more sleep on this, whatever.
I love Vegeta's strategy though.

Once again something people criticized a lot in the anime, Goku screw up the Mafuba, came directly from Toriyama. It's always hilarious to find out.

Of couse Gowasu is not dead. Even though Goku Black already killed Gowasu two times with the same attack, for some reason he failed to kill the third one even though he's stronger now...Yeah, Toyotaro right...

Seems like a lot of things I loved in the anime came from Toei: SSB Goku/SSJ FT Trunks vs SSR Black/Immortal Zamasu, Kid Trunks having a serious talk with FT Trunks, SSI FT Trunks, Black's unique attacks, Goku's rage boost and backhand Zamasu (the backhand part was expected) and FT Trunks Genki Sword.

The Father-Son Galick Gun can still happen, otherwise it's just another thing I'm thankful to Toei.
Considering FT Trunks is being treated like a side character in his own arc, I won't hold my breath.

Also, in a story that involves an Evil Goku as a main villain is just normal for me to expect an Evil Goku vs Good Goku fight.
I'm actually surprised the manga doesn't have that and instead Vegeta fights Black three times. Looks like Toriyama's balls are even bigger than I expected to treat the main character like that, but I don't like it.

The anime not only gave me Goku vs Black three times, but it also handled Vegeta vs Black much better.

Manga: Vegeta completely overpowers Black - Black gets a power up and beats Vegeta - Vegeta trains and gets his revenge.
Anime: Vegeta gets screwed by Black's ki blade - Vegeta trains and gets his revenge.

Vegeta's revenge in the anime version is much more satisfying because there wasn't a time he had overpowered Black and he got beaten in a cheap way in their first fight.

Honestly I don't even know what surprised me the most anymore. Goku vs Black not being a thing in Toriyama's script or FT Yajirobe being a Toei's thing.
Never thought Toei would bother to include him if it wasn't by Toriyama request, guess I was wrong. Toei is doing the best to give all characters some screen time, which makes it even more surprising how they didn't bring Lunch back yet.

Goku Black's character is infinitely times better in the anime. I wouldn't love him as much as I do if we only had the manga version.

I loved everything about him in the anime:

- Always Badass entrances. His first one is the best entrance of the entire franchise to me.

- Personality. Never loses his cool, no matter the situation. Unlike in the manga where he panics every time something that he wasn't expecting happens. What a pussy!

- Unique attacks. Just like SSB+Kaioken, once again Toei had the balls to do something creative while Toyotaro doesn't and failed to impress me again because of that.

- Character's development. After get beaten by SSB Vegeta, Black realizes his method to improve should change from "Turn pain into power" to "Turn anger into power".
For the first time he acknowledged that Vegeta, a Human, was right and he was angry at himself. It's a well done scene, but the manga doesn't have any of that because Black doesn't seem to be nothing more than a generic villain created by Toei. Oh the irony...

His beautiful theme and Nozawa's great performance were just the icing on the cake.

Merged Zamasu debut was lame. The anime made it feel like the Supreme God he's supposed to be. Here he was introduced like another normal guy.

At least Toyotaro made a good decision and the Mafuba was done by Goku. That was one of my complaints with this arc in the anime. FT Trunks was able to do everything.
Even though he used Super Saiyan Ikari to do it, I will take the manga version.

The only two things that the manga did better than the anime so far:
- Just two trips back and forth, not three.
- Mafuba is done by Goku, not FT Trunks.

I also liked how Immortal Zamasu fought using his Kaioshin abilities, but after Toyotaro completely ruin Black, I don't feel I should praise him for that.

I don't think Goku not fighting Black was confirmed to be in Toriyama's script though. I don't mind how prominent Vegeta is in the manga, but Goku not fighting Black at all and Black in general being bland is a big turnoff for me in the manga.

[Beerus-sama]

Having read the manga chapter, and with this being the last chapter Black and Zamasu appear as individual characters I can say it wasn't as good as the anime. These characters have different personalities in both versions.
Anime Black is waaaaay cooler than Manga Black, his smug attitude even when he's being beaten was one thing that added to his charisma, the other thing was Nozawa awesome performance , there's also the design, which I prefer in the anime though, there are some drawings in the manga that I like, particulary his surprised face expressions
Zamasu on the other hand, I think he took some of Black's treats of the anime, he was the one liking and praising what Black was doing and looking when he transformed instead of Black himself. I would have prefered it the other way around, since that was part of Black's personality, but whatever I guess. What still have me baffled is how he came to argue with Black up to the point he was going to punch him just because things didn't ended as planned ... I mean, What? Really? He also was expecting Black to do all the work while he just heal him when needed. It was pretty disappointing because I liked their team work in battle in the anime and how they never disagreed with anything. I also found it wrong how Zamasu gave up so easily even with his inmortality. I missed Anime Zamasu that was glad he adquired inmortality to put up with Trunks Garlick Hou.

But I did liked Black's attitude there and him calling Zamasu "brother" was special

I have said this before but I didn't like how Black/Zamasu was developed in the manga, from the begining I liked the anime's take better where Goku was the one personally humiliating Zamasu and then by watching the U6 vs U7 tournament, looking at the god aura Goku had made Zamasu decide to take his body. It made more sense that way for me. Even if it makes a loop its way better than just watch him having a god aura and decide to take his body with no other reason than he's strong and has a god aura. I think in that case Zamasu's views had to be explored more in why he hate mortals that much that lead him to take Goku's body and kill them all.

[Bullza]

Just out of curiosity....what was the last chapter of this manga that Gohan appeared in?

[Black Hawk]

Just out of curiosity....what was the last chapter of this manga that Gohan appeared in?

That would be... Uh... Holy crap, has he even appeared at all since the battle with Beerus?

Edit: My gosh, his last physical appearance was seriously Chapter 4. "I can't sense father's ki!" and the stare-down between Gokū and Beerus are the last panels he appears in at all. Now that I'm aware of this, I'm more than a little peeved.

[Bullza]

Just out of curiosity....what was the last chapter of this manga that Gohan appeared in?

That would be... Uh... Holy crap, has he even appeared at all since the battle with Beerus?

I just checked, he last appeared in chapter FOUR which came out September 2015. Chapter three and four is all he's shown up in.

He's appeared in about half a dozen panels and had ONE line of dialogue in the entire manga.

Good god, poor Gohan

[Black Hawk]

I just checked, he last appeared in chapter FOUR which came out September 2015. Chapter three and four is all he's shown up in.

He's appeared in about half a dozen panels and had ONE line of dialogue in the entire manga.

Good god, poor Gohan

My gosh, would you believe this?

1. He got thrashed by Beerus.
2. He found out he's a father.
3. He took part in the ritual.
4. He remarked that he can't sense his father's ki.

That's literally it. He's not even drawn as a spectator for the battle during any of the panels except the stare-down one. He's on the cover of the first volume, for goodness' sake. If it wasn't for his return in the Tournament of Power, I'd be pretty mad right now.

[sintzu]

If it wasn't for his return in the Tournament of Power, I'd be pretty mad right now.

The anime doing something doesn't mean it'll happen in the manga.

For all we know the wolves' fights will be skipped and most of the chapters will be focused on Goku and Vegeta while everyone else is just in the background.

[Black Hawk]

The anime doing something doesn't mean it'll happen in the manga.

For all we know the wolves' fights will be skipped and most of the chapters will be focused on Goku and Vegeta while everyone else is just in the background.

Do you think the Gohan-kun promo might only apply to the anime and not the manga? Gosh, I hope that won't be the case...

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/8327 ... 19/photo/1

[Gig]

Just read chapter 22!
Very well, although a few things are a bit strange.
Open the box if you have already read the chapter.
[spoiler]- Vegeta turning God (red) was completely unexpected to me. Pros for surprising us, Cons for obtaining it without the ritual. There is not explanation, so we can guess that also that form can be achieved through training only, or we can think that just being part of the ritual back then, allowed him to potentially "unlock" it... in both cases, we may have more God Saiyans in the future (and in both cases, it's a bit odd that he achieved Red AFTER Blue)...
- We were told that turning Blue on, off and on again was VERY BAD, in che manga. Now it looks like it is true if "off" means going Base, but NOT if "off" means going Red. I suppose I can buy it. It's a shame that the manga, being B&W, does not allow a clear view of the SSJ colors... fortunately the eyes are different.
- Goku using the mafuba is surely better than Trunks learning it in 5 minutes.
- I don't know if having the two Zamasu arguing each other is an odd idea or a great idea. They did have a cool, flawless teamplay in the anime... but I still appeciated this different moment.
- Black being still in difficulty when deciding to fuse has got more sense.
- Goku did take the wrong seal, but also Vegeta did hold the "idiot ball" today: he taked, stopping the two Zamasu which were arguing each other (instead of finishing Black by surprise)... and did not understood they were going to fuse, not even seeing Black removing his potara!
- Trunks did little in this chapter (he found out Gowasu was alive, gave Mai a motorbike and helped Goku closing the jar... but his fighting was just buying some time off-screen...). Maybe Toyotaro knews about fans' bad reactions that Trunks's unexplained powerups in the anime caused, and thus expressly decided to use none of them in the manga version? Well, there is still time for the ki sword...
- Having already used Blue and then having gone back to normal, it looks like Goku will be able to use only up to Red for the rest of the match (plus, he also spent a lot of stamina for the mafuba, as he says), unless he uses his last senzu....[/spoiler]
Well, I liked the chapter!

[Zeru14]

I don't get why so many are upset about SSJ Red Vegeta, the promotional material for Resurrection F movie, said he obtained it, interesting enough the Dragonball Fusions game said the same thing, it's just like SSJ Grade 3, just because we didn't see him use it, doesn't mean he can't.