Listing for "Ocean Dub"-specific DBZ: "Rock the Dragon" Set

[Ajay]

Since I didn't want to make a thread about this, I'll just ask here.

Do we know for a fact that Ocean didn't dub episodes 54-107? Maybe they did dub them but never got around to airing them. And second, if they didn't dub those episodes, why? Episode 108 starts off like any other episode, without a special recap or something to explain the big skip. Did they just not have the rights to those episodes?

I believe this is answered somewhere within the Rock the Dragon set. They never dubbed them because it was made to keep in line with Funimation's air order so instead of repeating what had already been seen, they decided to just carry on as though nothing had really changed.

[90sDBZ]

Since I didn't want to make a thread about this, I'll just ask here.

Do we know for a fact that Ocean didn't dub episodes 54-107? Maybe they did dub them but never got around to airing them. And second, if they didn't dub those episodes, why? Episode 108 starts off like any other episode, without a special recap or something to explain the big skip. Did they just not have the rights to those episodes?

There wasn't any need for those episodes to be dubbed. Cartoon Network UK had already shown those episodes several times in Funi dub so everyone was used to seeing them that way. I believe they were actually planning on continuing with the Funi dub too but couldn't afford it due to Team Faulconer's music needing royalties paid so they had the cheaper Westwood Ocean dub produced in order to continue the series. Seeing as how they'd already licenced the more expensive Funi dub for episodes 54-107 it would have been pretty foolish to pay for Ocean to dub those episodes for a few reasons. For one it would have meant a much longer wait for the Android saga which was already a really long wait as it was and it also would have meant the already rushed and mediocre Westwood dub would have been even more rushed. Plus those episodes were already popular in Funi dub so there really was no need to mess with that.

All things considered I'm glad they never dubbed those episodes. The Westwood dub made over half the series unbearable when it aired on UK TV so I was greatful for the small amount of Funi dub we got. If they were going to dub them the best time would have been back in the day when they were still working with Funi and Saban and had much higher production quality.

[Attitudefan]

I have to say, the video quality is excellent---and I am watching this on my HD TV on a Blu-Ray Player----and none of the blacks are severely crushed. Actually, a lot of detail that was lost in all the previous releases, sans the DBOX, is actually quite visible on this release. The only thing is the packaging sucks and 2 of my disks got minor scratches >:(

[NitroEX]

Since I didn't want to make a thread about this, I'll just ask here.

Do we know for a fact that Ocean didn't dub episodes 54-107? Maybe they did dub them but never got around to airing them. And second, if they didn't dub those episodes, why? Episode 108 starts off like any other episode, without a special recap or something to explain the big skip. Did they just not have the rights to those episodes?

Funimation couldn't afford to hire Ocean to dub any more episodes since Saban was no longer financing them. Once the first 53 episodes started airing on Cartoon network in America and got better ratings Funimation decided to dub it themselves with their own VAs and for a while this worked but somewhere along the lines Cartoon network in the UK and various other countries stopped using Funi's episodes and instead had AB Groupe produce their own English dub with the rehired Ocean cast. Whether this was because of popular demand for the Ocean actors to come back or Cartoon Network flat out refusing to pay Funimation's prices I'm not sure and I don't think anyone really is. They didn't dub the episodes in between 53 and 108 because then they would have been behind schedule and re airing episodes that had already been seen with Funi's dub. Regardless of anyone's opinion on the quality of the later dub it did very well and DBZ was still a very popular show.

[90sDBZ]

Since I didn't want to make a thread about this, I'll just ask here.

Do we know for a fact that Ocean didn't dub episodes 54-107? Maybe they did dub them but never got around to airing them. And second, if they didn't dub those episodes, why? Episode 108 starts off like any other episode, without a special recap or something to explain the big skip. Did they just not have the rights to those episodes?

Funimation couldn't afford to hire Ocean to dub any more episodes since Saban was no longer financing them. Once the first 53 episodes started airing on Cartoon network in America and got better ratings Funimation decided to dub it themselves with their own VAs and for a while this worked but somewhere along the lines Cartoon network in the UK and various other countries stopped using Funi's episodes and instead had AB Groupe produce their own English dub with the rehired Ocean cast. Whether this was because of popular demand for the Ocean actors to come back or Cartoon Network flat out refusing to pay Funimation's prices I'm not sure and I don't think anyone really is. They didn't dub the episodes in between 53 and 108 because then they would have been behind schedule and re airing episodes that had already been seen with Funi's dub. Regardless of anyone's opinion on the quality of the later dub it did very well and DBZ was still a very popular show.

Well I honestly believe the Westwood dub was only made because of AB Groupe's cheapness. If you look at their track record they've taken the cheapest route possible at every turn with the Dragonball franchise. Back in 2005 when they got the DBZ movies for Toonami UK there was an actual perfectly good Ocean dub available for movies 1-3 and the Funi dub for the rest of the movies but instead they gave us those awful "Big Green" dub movies. With GT they payed for the awful Blue Water dub instead of paying for the main Ocean cast to dub it or licencing the Funi dub even though fans had no experience with the Blue Water cast. They also did the same with DB even though there was a full Funi dub available and even an Ocean dub for the Pilaf saga. Quite simply they were never willing to pay Funi's prices again after the Trunks saga of Z so the UK ended up getting bad dubs for most of the Dragonball franchise.

Even if there was demand from fans for the return of the Ocean cast it would only have been a small minority. I remember back in 2000 when the Funi inhouse episodes were airing on Cartoon Network UK. It was by far the most popular show on the channel and the Frieza saga in particular was getting aired loads and winning the votes in the saga marathons and it had the Funi dub. Considering that most of the audience would have been made up of kids without internet access or any other means of contacting Cartoon Network I don't see how there could have been any significant amount of complaints. I imagine it would only have been a small number of older fans who even cared enough to complain. As a matter of fact the ratings even went up on Cartoon Network US when it changed to Funi's inhouse dub so I don't see why the UK would be any different. If AB Groupe actually believed that Ocean were the fan-favourite cast then why would they turn down the chance to show movies 1-3 in Ocean? Or show GT and DB with a completely new cast? Because they simply didn't care about the fans.

Even to this day AB Groupe are still holding the franchise hostage by not allowing the various BT/RB games to use the Kikuchi music. That company really needs to die or at least pass the rights on to someone who cares about the fans.

[NitroEX]

I'de rather not get into which part of the show got voted higher in polls since there doesn't seem to be much proof lying around and it always comes down to one person's memories versus the other and after 10+ years that can be a bit unreliable to say the least.

Moving on I don't think it's accurate to say the US ratings went up because of the change to Funimation's in house dub. As far as I'm aware that happened because the show was finally getting new episodes after having the first 53 repeated continuously. Don't forget that in the US the Ocean episodes had already aired before on a different channel prior to being shown again on Cartoon Network and that's bound to lead to an inevitable decline in ratings but make no mistake the first 53 episodes built a cult following which Funimation capitalised on (though rather poorly by having soundalikes rather than the original cast).

I won't defend AB Groupe either since they did make poor decisions but like Funimation I guess they were just trying to be profitable and since their dubs were TV only their actions were probably influenced by ratings more than Funimation as they knew they weren't going to see any money from DVD/VHS sales of the episodes. DBZ was most likely on the decline by the time the series was at it's end (as most shows are) and they were going to lose money by having the Ocean cast stick around for GT so I can't really fault them there.

Judging from what happened it seems like AB Groupe as well as Cartoon Network were to blame for a lot of the bad decisions and dub changes we had in the UK but at the same time if those bad decisions never happened and they had bent to Funimation's will all along we would never have got the Ocean cast to come back at all and that's something I'm personally grateful did happen.

[90sDBZ]

I wouldn't have had as much of a problem with Ocean returning if AB had actually invested enough money to make it good. I admit that I had grown really attached to the Funi dub by the time Ocean returned and didn't really want Ocean back regardless but still would have accepted it if AB had actually done everything they could to ensure a quality dub. If you like it that's fine but to me it just felt so half-assed and soulless. The megaman music I felt was terrible and made it a chore to sit through. I often see a lot of people defend the Westwood dub saying the whole thing was done in one year but that isn't true. It started with the Android saga in early 2001 and ended with the Kid Buu saga in early 2003 so they had 2 years to work on it.

The return of Ocean should have been made as a labour of love to the Ocean fans but I just feel like they didn't utilise the cast at all and it ended up feeling like a pointless waste. And if I had to chose between seeing the original English cast return with a mediocre dub or not return at all I'd pick the latter. And yes you do make a good point when you say that the increase in the US ratings might not have been down to the dub switch. I was just using it as a way of showing that not enough people cared about the dub change to drive the company into changing it back. But I really don't think DBZ would have been at a significant decline by the time it ended in 2003 when you consider it stayed on for countless reruns until mid 2005 and still had day-long marathons from time to time. GT was a new series and could've been potentially more popular than it was had AB used a familiar cast. If AB really needed more profits they should have done their own DVD release(not counting those awful Big Green movies of course).

Also the excuse for the show being at a decline doesn't work for the Big Green movies because they were dubbed and released on VHS by AB when we were only around the Android/Cell saga on Cartoon Network and the ratings should still have been very high then if not close to their peak. If you ask me all they cared about was making a cheap and easy profit and just disregarded the fans completely when they released those movies. Funi may have done something similar but at least they never hired actors who weren't fluent in English. And even though Funi's cast started out imitating Ocean's cast ironically a great deal of Ocean's cast ended up impersonating the Funi cast.

With any luck Ocean Kai will be leaps and bounds ahead of Westwood Z although that wouldn't be hard.

[KentalSSJ6]

I personally see no reason to get this aside from the Art Book packaging. I mean its the edited and censored footage just like on TV. If I wanted censored Dragon Ball id watch Kai on Nicktoons. Ill get it but ill likely just sell the disks or give them away.

[Ajay]

I personally see no reason to get this aside from the Art Book packaging. I mean its the edited and censored footage just like on TV. If I wanted censored Dragon Ball id watch Kai on Nicktoons. Ill get it but ill likely just sell the disks or give them away.

I got it because it's the only release I could buy that had the dub I grew up with on. It's also a piece of Dragon Ball history.

[KentalSSJ6]

I personally see no reason to get this aside from the Art Book packaging. I mean its the edited and censored footage just like on TV. If I wanted censored Dragon Ball id watch Kai on Nicktoons. Ill get it but ill likely just sell the disks or give them away.

I got it because it's the only release I could buy that had the dub I grew up with on. It's also a piece of Dragon Ball history.

Voice acting make or breaks a anime for me. It can be as epic as all hell but if I find the dub bad, I lose all interest which is why I cant stand the early Funimation dub and Ocean dub. Only way I can watch DBZ is through Kai and the movies.

[Ajay]

Voice acting make or breaks a anime for me. It can be as epic as all hell but if I find the dub bad, I lose all interest which is why I cant stand the early Funimation dub and Ocean dub. Only way I can watch DBZ is through Kai and the movies.

Sure, I agree but did you grow up on this dub? I did which is why I bought it along with the fact it has the first 3 movies with Kelamis which are hard to come by now.

I watch all my DBZ in Japanese but I won't lie, I do enjoy going back to the voices I grew up with over the years hence my purchase.

[KentalSSJ6]

Voice acting make or breaks a anime for me. It can be as epic as all hell but if I find the dub bad, I lose all interest which is why I cant stand the early Funimation dub and Ocean dub. Only way I can watch DBZ is through Kai and the movies.

Sure, I agree but did you grow up on this dub? I did which is why I bought it along with the fact it has the first 3 movies with Kelamis which are hard to come by now.

I watch all my DBZ in Japanese but I won't lie, I do enjoy going back to the voices I grew up with over the years hence my purchase.

I grew up with both Ocean and the old Funimation dub but back then but as time went on and I grew up watching anime with increasingly better and better voice acting, then look back at the old Z dubs, I just cringe at it. I have VERY few exceptions where I prefer the old dubs to Kai but as a whole, I cant watch them anymore.

[Attitudefan]

Actually, as I am watching this set right now, there is no cringe moments ever! The acting is excellent. The only thing is the script but the actors are so good, and say the lines with intense seriousness that you laugh it off. That or you ignore it completely. It's actually really good. The acting is equal or above Kai for sure.

When Master Roshi is informed about the Saiyans arrival in one day by Goku, the delivery he makes is excellent. Like, Holy CRAP, that was good. So subtle too but nonetheless excellent.

[Ringworm128]

The acting is equal or above Kai for sure.

Let's not go nuts.

[Dr. Machismo]

The original Ocean dub is a lot better than the early FUNimation one. And the Ocean dub for the first 3 DBZ movies is really great

[Attitudefan]

The acting is equal or above Kai for sure.

Let's not go nuts.

Not quite. The problem in Kai is that their delivery can be too quick at times where it seems too unnatural.

I have no problem with the acting in this at all.

[Dr. Machismo]

Yeah the problem I have with Kai is at times the script. It just seems so much different from what they're actually supposed to say

[KentalSSJ6]

The acting is equal or above Kai for sure.

Let's not go nuts.

Not quite. The problem in Kai is that their delivery can be too quick at times where it seems too unnatural.

I have no problem with the acting in this at all.

Sorry but the old dubs just sound bad to me. I dont really how to put into the words my issue with the old dub but its just how they talk, like Bulma's old voice actor from the Funimation dub just sounds like a total airhead valley girl. I give her all the credit she deserves of course but I dont forget a lot of the cast was relatively new to voice acting at the time. I just see Kai's voice acting much more refined compared to how the dub was a decade ago, all the actors having a lot more experience just makes Kai a lot more enjoyable to me.

Also...this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdGa-2BSFiI . No. NO!

[Attitudefan]

That link is the old FUNi dub after they took over from Ocean. That's Sabat's Vegeta with FUNi's even more dumbed down script.

[Ringworm128]

Sometimes they talk a bit fast but overall the acting in Kai just seems more well...real. The actors seem more like they're playing characters instead of caricatures. Even the really cartoonish voices like King Kai and Puar have a sense of humanity to them that I just don't hear in the 96 dub. The acting isn't bad but it just doesn't seem as 3 dimensional as the Kai dub even in the first 3 movies.. "IT'S OVER 9000!" and "I'l crush you like a grape in the palm of my hand! You understaaaaaand!" don't help either.