Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:37 pm

Yeah, It reeks of Toyble's "Super Saiyan 5", where Vegeta would use Super Saiyan 3, 4 and Grade III simultaneously. Is Toyotarou just trying to make it obvious with the DBAF ideas?

Anyways, I've decided to try out a different format instead of walls of text or absurdly long videos for my power levels.
Any feedback for the format or the numbers themselves would be greatly appreciated! :thumbup:

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Majin Buu lost more than half his power post-split but put up a better fight against Kid Buu than Goku and Vegeta. Let's just say he got that power back after all the absorption shenanigans but can only use it if he's mad.

I think Lavenda is noticeably weaker than SS Gohan but stronger than Base. He also said that Gohan's power only increased slightly when he transformed.
I think Gohan's base is stronger than Piccolo because of his residual "Ultimate" power, but it's still weaker than his SS form, which is a 50x multiplier over his regular base.

Lavenda also stated, after seeing a drugged Basil lose, that he would be able to win if he can kill his opponent. Seems a pretty clear indication that he's weaker than Basil after he's consumed "The thing" and needs to rely on his lethal poison to win against an opponent who could defeat Basil.
I'd still give him an edge over Basil without the power-up, just because. I mean, when's the last time the younger sibling was stronger?

Bergamo's true power is a mystery, but he was able to take hits from SS Goku, so he's at least about as strong as him. He absorbs his opponent's blows and returns it two-fold, so I guess Bergamo adds 2x the opponent's power into himself? I also think the "Wolfgang Penetrator" works kinda like the Kienzan or the Kikoho, in that it's way stronger than the guy who's using the technique. Perhaps it releases all the absorbed power?
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:40 pm

Lavenda got all his hits blocked by base Gohan. Seems to me he's weaker than him in base and only managed to hold his own due to poison.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:52 pm

I'm glad you asked, I get that a lot. I thought that bit was similar to Goku vs. Yakon. Gohan had increased all his other senses, as said by Bergamo, and was able to predict when Lavenda would attack. It's also similar to Base Goku vs Hit, yet you won't see anyone saying that Base Goku was stronger than Hit.

Not to mention that even before Gohan was poisoned, he couldn't land a single hit on Lavenda who dodged ALL of his attacks. See the first minute of their fight.
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:05 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:I'm glad you asked, I get that a lot. I thought that bit was similar to Goku vs. Yakon. Gohan had increased all his other senses, as said by Bergamo, and was able to predict when Lavenda would attack. It's also similar to Base Goku vs Hit, yet you won't see anyone saying that Base Goku was stronger than Hit.

Not to mention that even before Gohan was poisoned, he couldn't land a single hit on Lavenda who dodged ALL of his attacks. See the first minute of their fight.
Makes sense. How strong do you have Boo compared to Cell? Because I see you have him only barely above SS level. Are your US arc SSs at the same level as Boo arc/Cell arc SS2s?

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:15 pm

Doctor. wrote: Makes sense. How strong do you have Boo compared to Cell? Because I see you have him only barely above SS level. Are your US arc SSs at the same level as Boo arc/Cell arc SS2s?
I have Perfect Cell at 2,500,000,000 and Super Perfect at 5,000,000,000. I think post-split Buu would be slightly weaker than SPC. The US arc Saiyans are hella stronger than their Cell Saga counterparts and Gohan (w/o SS2 and "Ultimate") and Goku are probably the strongest they've ever been.
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by The gr » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:00 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:
Doctor. wrote: Makes sense. How strong do you have Boo compared to Cell? Because I see you have him only barely above SS level. Are your US arc SSs at the same level as Boo arc/Cell arc SS2s?
I have Perfect Cell at 2,500,000,000 and Super Perfect at 5,000,000,000. I think post-split Buu would be slightly weaker than SPC. The US arc Saiyans are hella stronger than their Cell Saga counterparts and Gohan (w/o SS2 and "Ultimate") and Goku are probably the strongest they've ever been.
yeesh 5,000,000,000 is too​ much I would have put him at least 4,500,000,000 for super perfect cell
DBZ Macky wrote:Yeah, It reeks of Toyble's "Super Saiyan 5", where Vegeta would use Super Saiyan 3, 4 and Grade III simultaneously. Is Toyotarou just trying to make it obvious with the DBAF ideas?

Anyways, I've decided to try out a different format instead of walls of text or absurdly long videos for my power levels.
Any feedback for the format or the numbers themselves would be greatly appreciated! :thumbup:

Image

Majin Buu lost more than half his power post-split but put up a better fight against Kid Buu than Goku and Vegeta. Let's just say he got that power back after all the absorption shenanigans but can only use it if he's mad.

I think Lavenda is noticeably weaker than SS Gohan but stronger than Base. He also said that Gohan's power only increased slightly when he transformed.
I think Gohan's base is stronger than Piccolo because of his residual "Ultimate" power, but it's still weaker than his SS form, which is a 50x multiplier over his regular base.

Lavenda also stated, after seeing a drugged Basil lose, that he would be able to win if he can kill his opponent. Seems a pretty clear indication that he's weaker than Basil after he's consumed "The thing" and needs to rely on his lethal poison to win against an opponent who could defeat Basil.
I'd still give him an edge over Basil without the power-up, just because. I mean, when's the last time the younger sibling was stronger?

Bergamo's true power is a mystery, but he was able to take hits from SS Goku, so he's at least about as strong as him. He absorbs his opponent's blows and returns it two-fold, so I guess Bergamo adds 2x the opponent's power into himself? I also think the "Wolfgang Penetrator" works kinda like the Kienzan or the Kikoho, in that it's way stronger than the guy who's using the technique. Perhaps it releases all the absorbed power?
I like this list but basil powered up twice during his base, because in the beginning of his fight he was surpressed and then goku ask to him go full power,so you forgot to include a surpressed Basil in your list,I don't know why everyone ignored This, and screw Bergamo, that guy is too hard to scale IMO,I'm just gonna wait to see his performance at the tournament of power.and buu at his base should be around at least 4,900,000,000.anyways a great list is this,I'm looking forward to seeing more, you continue to be my favorite power scaler.
Last edited by The gr on Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:14 pm

Bullza wrote:So it's not that SSJG is on par with SSJR then? He's still just using SSJB essentially.

I wonder if it's because of that whole thing where using it twice causes it to drop over 90% of his power.
Actually, he is using Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue only when he attacks. That should save stamina. Overusing Super Saiyan Blue must be like you said.
DBZ Macky wrote:Anyways, I've decided to try out a different format instead of walls of text or absurdly long videos for my power levels.
Any feedback for the format or the numbers themselves would be greatly appreciated! :thumbup:
This format is certainly much more interesting than anything else. And the powerlevels are close to what I think too. Good job.

I would advise only to put the image in spoiler tags.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:01 pm

What a bunch of bullshit. SSRose Black is so slow even SSGod Vegeta can outpace him and he gets completely jobbed by attacks from SSBlue Vegeta.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:09 pm

Thanks for the responses everyone! I noticed that Basil seemed to "power-up". But really all he appeared to do was focus all his Ki into his legs. I don't think that would've changed his actual battle power. Or perhaps it would? Like how Goku's PL changed when he focused his Ki into his palms for the Kamehameha. Anyways, that would make that an amplified technique, which is a whole 'nother headache. I'd like to make a coherent list before dealing with attack multipliers and the like.
And I'll be sure to spoiler tag the image next time too.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:What a bunch of bullshit. SSRose Black is so slow even SSGod Vegeta can outpace him and he gets completely jobbed by attacks from SSBlue Vegeta.
Let's not jump to conclusions now, shall we?
For all we know, SSG's light muscle mass might actually increase his speed and allow him to give greater momentum to his attacks when he switches to SSB.

It's gonna be interesting that he learnt to bulk-up in his first visit in the time chamber and this time around, he's doing the exact opposite.

Vegeta would actually not only learn from his (son's) previous mistake, but also implement it in reverse manner to overwhelm an opponent far stronger than him. It'd be awesome storytelling at its finest. :clap:
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:12 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:What a bunch of bullshit. SSRose Black is so slow even SSGod Vegeta can outpace him and he gets completely jobbed by attacks from SSBlue Vegeta.
Let's not jump to conclusions now, shall we?
For all we know, SSG's light muscle mass might actually increase his speed and allow him to give greater momentum to his attacks when he switches to SSB.

It's gonna be interesting that he learnt to bulk-up in his first visit in the time chamber and this time around, he's doing the exact opposite.

Vegeta would actually not only learn from his (son's) previous mistake, but also implement it in reverse manner to overwhelm an opponent far stronger than him. It'd be awesome storytelling at its finest. :clap:
The thing is his SSGod shouldn't be even half of SSRose Black, and there's no way a leaner frame would allow him to compensate for such a huge gap.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by The gr » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:17 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:Thanks for the responses everyone! I noticed that Basil seemed to "power-up". But really all he appeared to do was focus all his Ki into his legs. I don't think that would've changed his actual battle power. Or perhaps it would? Like how Goku's PL changed when he focused his Ki into his palms for the Kamehameha. Anyways, that would make that an amplified technique, which is a whole 'nother headache. I'd like to make a coherent list before dealing with attack multipliers and the like.
And I'll be sure to spoiler tag the image next time too.
that's not the case here it looks like Basil actually powered up, because someone screaming check,the ground is shaking check, and Aura is appearing when someone is powering up, check, and is noticable that basil is faster and delivering more damage.Plus Bergamo said to him, toy with them and later on he confirms that he was holding back because goku pointed out that he was surpressed
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:44 pm

I had a look through the whole chapter and while it does seem like Super Saiyan God Vegeta is stronger than Super Saiyan Rose Black apparently it's only because of him using Super Saiyan Blue's power.

Likewise Goku had to use Super Saiyan God to beat Zamasu so I don't know if that means Zamasu is below that but above Super Saiyan 3 Goku and probably on par with where SSJ2 Trunks is currently.

SSJB Vegeta > SSJR Black > SSJB Goku > SSJG Vegeta > SSJG Goku > SSJ2 Vegeta > Zamasu ~ SSJ2 Trunks (after training) > SSJ3 Goku

Something like that perhaps?

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:46 pm

Bullza wrote:I had a look through the whole chapter and while it does seem like Super Saiyan God Vegeta is stronger than Super Saiyan Rose Black apparently it's only because of him using Super Saiyan Blue's power.

Likewise Goku had to use Super Saiyan God to beat Zamasu so I don't know if that means Zamasu is below that but above Super Saiyan 3 Goku and probably on par with where SSJ2 Trunks is currently.

SSJB Vegeta > SSJR Black > SSJB Goku > SSJG Vegeta > SSJG Goku > SSJ2 Vegeta > Zamasu ~ SSJ2 Trunks (after training) > SSJ3 Goku

Something like that perhaps?
Go back to Zamasu vs Goku, he was weaker than even SSJ Goku and needed Kaioshin magic to beat him.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:18 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:Go back to Zamasu vs Goku, he was weaker than even SSJ Goku and needed Kaioshin magic to beat him.
In raw power he'd probably be weaker and I think he said as such. With his special powers he's probably around as formidable as Trunks which might be why Goku has used Super Saiyan God this time.

Trunks said he should be able to beat Zamasu if he's alone but then Zamasu said he was underestimating him.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:23 pm

Bullza wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Go back to Zamasu vs Goku, he was weaker than even SSJ Goku and needed Kaioshin magic to beat him.
In raw power he'd probably be weaker and I think he said as such. With his special powers he's probably around as formidable as Trunks which might be why Goku has used Super Saiyan God this time.

Trunks said he should be able to beat Zamasu if he's alone but then Zamasu said he was underestimating him.
Under those rules our Kaioshin would be superior to SSJ2s, I don't think special techniques should count. After all, Piccolo isn't stronger than Raditz just because he has the Makankosappo.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by buutenks » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:46 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:Yeah, It reeks of Toyble's "Super Saiyan 5", where Vegeta would use Super Saiyan 3, 4 and Grade III simultaneously. Is Toyotarou just trying to make it obvious with the DBAF ideas?

Anyways, I've decided to try out a different format instead of walls of text or absurdly long videos for my power levels.
Any feedback for the format or the numbers themselves would be greatly appreciated! :thumbup:

Image

Majin Buu lost more than half his power post-split but put up a better fight against Kid Buu than Goku and Vegeta. Let's just say he got that power back after all the absorption shenanigans but can only use it if he's mad.

I think Lavenda is noticeably weaker than SS Gohan but stronger than Base. He also said that Gohan's power only increased slightly when he transformed.
I think Gohan's base is stronger than Piccolo because of his residual "Ultimate" power, but it's still weaker than his SS form, which is a 50x multiplier over his regular base.

Lavenda also stated, after seeing a drugged Basil lose, that he would be able to win if he can kill his opponent. Seems a pretty clear indication that he's weaker than Basil after he's consumed "The thing" and needs to rely on his lethal poison to win against an opponent who could defeat Basil.
I'd still give him an edge over Basil without the power-up, just because. I mean, when's the last time the younger sibling was stronger?

Bergamo's true power is a mystery, but he was able to take hits from SS Goku, so he's at least about as strong as him. He absorbs his opponent's blows and returns it two-fold, so I guess Bergamo adds 2x the opponent's power into himself? I also think the "Wolfgang Penetrator" works kinda like the Kienzan or the Kikoho, in that it's way stronger than the guy who's using the technique. Perhaps it releases all the absorbed power?

Wow very nice i love it.

And i kinda agree that Goku and got got their base and ss powers retconned. Its the only way it all makes sense, or else everyone is going to be ssg+ level.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:Yeah, It reeks of Toyble's "Super Saiyan 5", where Vegeta would use Super Saiyan 3, 4 and Grade III simultaneously. Is Toyotarou just trying to make it obvious with the DBAF ideas?

Anyways, I've decided to try out a different format instead of walls of text or absurdly long videos for my power levels.
Any feedback for the format or the numbers themselves would be greatly appreciated! :thumbup:

Image

Majin Buu lost more than half his power post-split but put up a better fight against Kid Buu than Goku and Vegeta. Let's just say he got that power back after all the absorption shenanigans but can only use it if he's mad.

I think Lavenda is noticeably weaker than SS Gohan but stronger than Base. He also said that Gohan's power only increased slightly when he transformed.
I think Gohan's base is stronger than Piccolo because of his residual "Ultimate" power, but it's still weaker than his SS form, which is a 50x multiplier over his regular base.

Lavenda also stated, after seeing a drugged Basil lose, that he would be able to win if he can kill his opponent. Seems a pretty clear indication that he's weaker than Basil after he's consumed "The thing" and needs to rely on his lethal poison to win against an opponent who could defeat Basil.
I'd still give him an edge over Basil without the power-up, just because. I mean, when's the last time the younger sibling was stronger?

Bergamo's true power is a mystery, but he was able to take hits from SS Goku, so he's at least about as strong as him. He absorbs his opponent's blows and returns it two-fold, so I guess Bergamo adds 2x the opponent's power into himself? I also think the "Wolfgang Penetrator" works kinda like the Kienzan or the Kikoho, in that it's way stronger than the guy who's using the technique. Perhaps it releases all the absorbed power?
While I disagree with most of the numbers, the format is very good. Might try it later down the line.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:34 pm

Goku was going to use Kaiohken against Toppo's full power... I guess they're more or less even.

We know that Goku hasn't gotten stronger since the Zamasu arc and that SsjR Black Goku (schyte) was stated to be tbe strongest character of the arc besides Beerus and the fusions.

This means that Toppo is weaker than SsjR Black.

Anyway, he's no match for Merged Zamasu, at all. He'd get one-shotted.

Merged Zamasu >>>>> SsjR Black Goku > Toppo = SsjB Goku.
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:35 pm

New episode. Pretty straight forward this week.

Toppo appears to be equal or so to Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x 2 which should put him above the non powered up Merged Zamasu.

Jiran is even higher still and is the strongest in his universe. They said Toppo was #2? So anyone else like the Beerus lookalike would be weaker than that.

No idea what was going on with the preview showing Krillin holding his own against Basil though...

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:47 pm

Bullza wrote:New episode. Pretty straight forward this week.

Toppo appears to be equal or so to Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x 2 which should put him above the non powered up Merged Zamasu.

Jiran is even higher still and is the strongest in his universe. They said Toppo was #2? So anyone else like the Beerus lookalike would be weaker than that.

No idea what was going on with the preview showing Krillin holding his own against Basil though...
It's image training probably.

Also, my prediction (on another forum) could be right. I said that Jiren might be stronger than Toppo, but may lack the experience, mentality or drive to become a God of Destruction.

Toppo is probably weaker than SSB Kaio-Ken Goku even at full power. On an unrelated note, Zeno seems really easy to convince nowadays, doesn't he?
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