Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[kudo6000]

Goku introducing himself as Kakarrot definitely felt weird, but I liked it. It’s essentially him saying, “You could call me that too, if you want.”

[Noitsnothim]

Goku introducing himself as Kakarrot definitely felt weird, but I liked it. It’s essentially him saying, “You could call me that too, if you want.”

It made me really happy and sorta emotional (to see him acknowledge Broly as a friend rather than a hated enemy like in the non-canon films) really hit me in my heart and of course it's a wink to the fans but it's also him coming to terms with his saiyan heritage its little tiny bit of character development for Goku which I hope we see more of later down the road in the manga or Anime Continuation

[Tai Lung]

OG Bardock was more than just his rebellion and solitary struggle.

He was your quintessential low-class warrior who didn't give any fucks about family yet formed a close bond with his comrades. He was someone who tried to rally his people up in arms against Frieza, but when they scorned and laughed at him he simply told them to die and go to hell. He was someone who knew how his son was going to grow up, but in the end only cared about Frieza getting his just desserts. A true avenger. His nature and behavior as a Saiyan was so predictable, so ordinary, yet that is exactly what made him so interesting and endearing, coupled with the fact that Goku fell so far from the tree, or his own species as represented by Bardock.

New Bardock has none of that characterization. Minus is a poor retelling of Goku's history, introducing Gine who's even less interesting and take away the traits that made OG Bardock so well-liked in the first place.

-He remains a low class warrior
-the first thing does not make sense to me, bardock appreciated his companions but not by his family and in the end he fought to protect a lot of cretins (even if it was more for revenge).
-demonstrates that most Saiyans are idiots and it is impossible to feel empathy for them and their final destination except perhaps for bardock that again now in the current film that tragedy can really be felt this time because not all were evil giving more "relevance" to fight for his family and colleagues he wants to protect.
- Foolish psychic powers
-Bardock is the "exception" to the rule of his race and out of the typical that most saiyans in the saiyan saga which makes his behavior more logical but retaining the best aspects of his race as your courage.
- The "avenger" thing. I can give you but that's because Bardock did not lose anyone close before his fight in the current movie but there was still the fact that he had been betrayed by frieza...

I like the movie of bardock and I did not like minus.
but for me at least the movie current kept what was great in the first movie with the representation of bardock with the scenes shown I do not need more

I'm not sure you understand my point.

Minus/DBS Broly Bardock and Toei DBZ Bardock are two different characters sharing the same name and similar design. This is clear from their portrayal going from the TV special to Minus/Broly film.

Bardock made it clear that his role against Frieza was so that he could change the future he saw with his psychic powers. His comrades slaughtered by Frieza's henchmen, and he himself almost left for dead. The power to change the future on his own, even if it's against all odds. That's the tragedy that befell him. That's the key context that Minus and the Broly film lacks. That Bardock just had a bad feeling and tried to fight back. He had no tragedy to begin with.

If all you really ever cared about regarding Bardock's character was his last ditch attempt against Frieza, then I think your liking of him was very shallow to begin with and missed the entire point of his character in the TV special.

the tragedy is that, fight against all odds of victory against frieza although he could not win both did that

for me the problem is that you the analyze a lot but is very symple the only thing that changes is the method and the reason of the final fight the first is more realistic and the second has a little more emotional impact with the logic of the character

[Rakurai]

I'm not sure you understand my point.

Minus/DBS Broly Bardock and Toei DBZ Bardock are two different characters sharing the same name and similar design. This is clear from their portrayal going from the TV special to Minus/Broly film.

Bardock made it clear that his role against Frieza was so that he could change the future he saw with his psychic powers. His comrades slaughtered by Frieza's henchmen, and he himself almost left for dead. The power to change the future on his own, even if it's against all odds. That's the tragedy that befell him. That's the key context that Minus and the Broly film lacks. That Bardock just had a bad feeling and tried to fight back. He had no tragedy to begin with.

If all you really ever cared about regarding Bardock's character was his last ditch attempt against Frieza, then I think your liking of him was very shallow to begin with and missed the entire point of his character in the TV special.

the tragedy is that, fight against all odds of victory against frieza although he could not win both did that

for me the problem is that you the analyze a lot but is very symple the only thing that changes is the method and the reason of the final fight the first is more realistic and the second has a little more emotional impact with the logic of the character

Minus and the film's only common "tragedy" is how the Saiyan race turned on to the brink of extinction thanks to Frieza. I use the quotation marks because it's information we should already know from following the original manga, it's not the main point of the two tellings.

Minus Bardock did not suffer tragedy anymore than the rest of his race. OG Bardock suffered more than that, and it culminated in an attempt that ultimately led to nothing. However, what made OG Bardock even better though is he still had the last laugh because he knew how it was going to turn out thanks to his psychic powers, which actually carried a lot of importance throughout the special impacting his character's psych and actions, not a foolish thing like you claim with no good reason.

Lmao I analyze a lot? Impeccable response champ. Telling the character how he was portrayed in the TV special and the reasons why he is so much of a better character than the Minus crapshoot = I analyze a lot. That tells me all I need to know about your mindset as a consumer and fan. If you want to compare the two characters like you were half-paying attention to it like "muhrebellion" then again - you liking Bardock is as shallow as me liking 18 cause she made Vegeta cry like a little bitch.

[Tai Lung]

I'm not sure you understand my point.

Minus/DBS Broly Bardock and Toei DBZ Bardock are two different characters sharing the same name and similar design. This is clear from their portrayal going from the TV special to Minus/Broly film.

Bardock made it clear that his role against Frieza was so that he could change the future he saw with his psychic powers. His comrades slaughtered by Frieza's henchmen, and he himself almost left for dead. The power to change the future on his own, even if it's against all odds. That's the tragedy that befell him. That's the key context that Minus and the Broly film lacks. That Bardock just had a bad feeling and tried to fight back. He had no tragedy to begin with.

If all you really ever cared about regarding Bardock's character was his last ditch attempt against Frieza, then I think your liking of him was very shallow to begin with and missed the entire point of his character in the TV special.

the tragedy is that, fight against all odds of victory against frieza although he could not win both did that

for me the problem is that you the analyze a lot but is very symple the only thing that changes is the method and the reason of the final fight the first is more realistic and the second has a little more emotional impact with the logic of the character

Minus and the film's only common "tragedy" is how the Saiyan race turned on to the brink of extinction thanks to Frieza. I use the quotation marks because it's information we should already know from following the original manga, it's not the main point of the two tellings.

Minus Bardock did not suffer tragedy anymore than the rest of his race. OG Bardock suffered more than that, and it culminated in an attempt that ultimately led to nothing. However, what made OG Bardock even better though is he still had the last laugh because he knew how it was going to turn out thanks to his psychic powers, which actually carried a lot of importance throughout the special impacting his character's psych and actions, not a foolish thing like you claim with no good reason.

Lmao I analyze a lot? Impeccable response champ. Telling the character how he was portrayed in the TV special and the reasons why he is so much of a better character than the Minus crapshoot = I analyze a lot. That tells me all I need to know about your mindset as a consumer and fan. If you want to compare the two characters like you were half-paying attention to it like "muhrebellion" then again - you liking Bardock is as shallow as me liking 18 cause she made Vegeta cry like a little bitch.

the one that already knew it I do not see him in that it removes the tragic outcome to his end

I already told you that he knew what his destiny was when he saw those "visions" but bardock fight against it despite that, but it still seems to me an argument convenience so that the guy was the only one who knew what he was going to happen is not the case with the current movie which makes me prefer the realism and execution of this simple

because it's the same thing and basically it's as if you told me the first broly had "cool" phrases had personality and not that it gives it ...
you exaggerate as a nostalgic

[Rakurai]

the one that already knew it I do not see him in that it removes the tragic outcome to his end

I already told you that he knew what his destiny was when he saw those "visions" but bardock fight against it despite that, but it still seems to me an argument convenience so that the guy was the only one who knew what he was going to happen is not the case with the current movie which makes me prefer the realism and execution of this simple

because it's the same thing and basically it's as if you told me the first broly had "cool" phrases had personality and not that it gives it ...
you exaggerate as a nostalgic

Yep, you make zero sense with your words and your best arguments are overanalysis and nostalgia. Truly a shallow mindset.

If those are your best "arguments," then pls don't respond back and waste my time or yours.

[Tai Lung]

the one that already knew it I do not see him in that it removes the tragic outcome to his end

I already told you that he knew what his destiny was when he saw those "visions" but bardock fight against it despite that, but it still seems to me an argument convenience so that the guy was the only one who knew what he was going to happen is not the case with the current movie which makes me prefer the realism and execution of this simple

because it's the same thing and basically it's as if you told me the first broly had "cool" phrases had personality and not that it gives it ...
you exaggerate as a nostalgic

Yep, you make zero sense with your words and your best arguments are overanalysis and nostalgia. Truly a shallow mindset.

If those are your best "arguments," then pls don't respond back and waste my time or yours.

you have not answered anything and you have not even made a valid argument...
I gave you the reason in some points but the majority was not relevant
because a lot of the essence of the character is maintained
I literally like the first bardock movie very much, but even that one is not saved from having impefections that no matter how many messages you have, it does not take away the "mistakes" you have, that you can not accept? it is not my fault.
you were the one who came up with says "superficial answers" is pretty hypocritical to say that and then complain that I'm judging you

[Saturnine]

Personally I never really cared for Bardock much in the first place, not my fav char or anything. So frankly, I didn't really mind the change particularly. It's all up to your preference, really.

[Rakurai]

Personally I never really cared for Bardock much in the first place, not my fav char or anything. So frankly, I didn't really mind the change particularly. It's all up to your preference, really.

I never cared much for them either in the sense that neither Bardock nor Broly are my favorite characters. But I always appreciated the narrative & storytelling direction which Koyama went for in their respective debuts. They became some of my favorite DB media. However, the Broly film shits on almost everything that made the characters interesting and their histories so compelling.

Same with changing Goku's history from being a unique one among storytellers to becoming another Superman.

[Saturnine]

Well, regarding this whole Superman thing, we're still in a reversal of sorts. If it were Broly origins + FUNi characterization, then Goku would have been Superman straight up. But Goku is in reality not as noble as many think him to be, so his origins - whatever they are - neither add to or detract from his character IMO. He's a reasonably kind Saiyan who loves battle. But guess what, Vegeta's that too.

[Rakurai]

Well, regarding this whole Superman thing, we're still in a reversal of sorts. If it were Broly origins + FUNi characterization, then Goku would have been Superman straight up. But Goku is in reality not as noble as many think him to be, so his origins - whatever they are - neither add to or detract from his character IMO. He's a reasonably kind Saiyan who loves battle. But guess what, Vegeta's that too.

It significantly devalues how he grew up to become the kind-hearted Saiyan he is today. It makes Grandpa Gohan's influence on him less valuable and heartfelt, his "accident" less serendipitous because now he's the son of the new Bardock & Gine, the latter who is an extremely kind and soft Saiyan. It makes his character development in early DB in relation to the DBZ era look like it almost wasn't almost even there. It makes Raditz look like the outlier in their family.

It's like retconning Vegeta to have been a kind Saiyan since he was a kid, instead of it being as a result of his time on Earth.

[WittyUsername]

Well, regarding this whole Superman thing, we're still in a reversal of sorts. If it were Broly origins + FUNi characterization, then Goku would have been Superman straight up. But Goku is in reality not as noble as many think him to be, so his origins - whatever they are - neither add to or detract from his character IMO. He's a reasonably kind Saiyan who loves battle. But guess what, Vegeta's that too.

It significantly devalues how he grew up to become the kind-hearted Saiyan he is today. It makes Grandpa Gohan's influence on him less valuable and heartfelt, his "accident" less serendipitous because now he's the son of the new Bardock & Gine, the latter who is an extremely kind and soft Saiyan. It makes his character development in early DB in relation to the DBZ era look like it almost wasn't almost even there. It makes Raditz look like the outlier in their family.

It's like retconning Vegeta to have been a kind Saiyan since he was a kid, instead of it being as a result of his time on Earth.

Speaking of Raditz, from what I’ve heard about this movie, are we to assume that Raditz knew the reason Goku was sent to Earth, but simply didn’t care to tell him the truth? It seems like it’s either that or Gine for some reason didn’t tell him the reason they sent Goku to Earth.

[emperior]

Well, regarding this whole Superman thing, we're still in a reversal of sorts. If it were Broly origins + FUNi characterization, then Goku would have been Superman straight up. But Goku is in reality not as noble as many think him to be, so his origins - whatever they are - neither add to or detract from his character IMO. He's a reasonably kind Saiyan who loves battle. But guess what, Vegeta's that too.

It significantly devalues how he grew up to become the kind-hearted Saiyan he is today. It makes Grandpa Gohan's influence on him less valuable and heartfelt, his "accident" less serendipitous because now he's the son of the new Bardock & Gine, the latter who is an extremely kind and soft Saiyan. It makes his character development in early DB in relation to the DBZ era look like it almost wasn't almost even there. It makes Raditz look like the outlier in their family.

It's like retconning Vegeta to have been a kind Saiyan since he was a kid, instead of it being as a result of his time on Earth.

Speaking of Raditz, from what I’ve heard about this movie, are we to assume that Raditz knew the reason Goku was sent to Earth, but simply didn’t care to tell him the truth? It seems like it’s either that or Gine for some reason didn’t tell him the reason they sent Goku to Earth.

They couldn’t just tell Raditz through the scouter that they were sending Goku to Earth because Bardock had a hunch Freeza was going to kill them all. The movie also clarified that Goku was going to be sent to some other planet anyway sooner or later.

[Rakurai]

Speaking of Raditz, from what I’ve heard about this movie, are we to assume that Raditz knew the reason Goku was sent to Earth, but simply didn’t care to tell him the truth? It seems like it’s either that or Gine for some reason didn’t tell him the reason they sent Goku to Earth.

There's no further clarification in the film than what there was in the Minus special. Gine cries after Bardock sends Goku off, next thing we see is planet gets eradicated while she's chopping meat.

[RedHeat]

Lol, just saw a commercial for the movie on Comedy Central. Never thought I'd see the day.

[RecolorSaiyan]

In the movie, gogeta tells freeza that "since he was dead, he wouldn't know about fusion" and then tells him "its a massive powerup beyond just addition".

However shouldn't freeza already know about fusion since he was watching goku vs kafla?

[Hulk10]

Broly's signature form was cool. As I've said before I wish he still had his tail. And I still don't see why people think his Super Saiyan form is a hybrid form.

[Grimlock]

In the movie, gogeta tells freeza that "since he was dead, he wouldn't know about fusion" and then tells him "its a massive powerup beyond just addition".

However shouldn't freeza already know about fusion since he was watching goku vs kafla?

Is that line really in the movie? Because it's interesting and a good thing that they actually said Freeza doesn't know about fusion (contrary to what Toei's retelling established).

Also, is it said "fusion" in Japanese? If so, then it's kind of correct Freeza not knowing it, they usually refer to Potara fusion as "Potara" and Metamoran fusion as "Fusion". Unless, of course, the context leaves an ambiguous statement that could be understood as if Gogeta was referring to both methods.

[Rakurai]

In the movie, gogeta tells freeza that "since he was dead, he wouldn't know about fusion" and then tells him "its a massive powerup beyond just addition".

However shouldn't freeza already know about fusion since he was watching goku vs kafla?

Is that line really in the movie? Because it's interesting and a good thing that they actually said Freeza doesn't know about fusion (contrary to what Toei's retelling established).

Also, is it said "fusion" in Japanese? If so, then it's kind of correct Freeza not knowing it, they usually refer to Potara fusion as "Potara" and Metamoran fusion as "Fusion". Unless, of course, the context leaves an ambiguous statement that could be understood as if Gogeta was referring to both methods.

Gogeta uses the term "合体" (gattai) in that line which is often used for Potara but generally means "merging."

And yeah the film doesn't follow the anime continuity so ofc Frieza wouldn't know about it.

[Tai Lung]

Personally I never really cared for Bardock much in the first place, not my fav char or anything. So frankly, I didn't really mind the change particularly. It's all up to your preference, really.

really many make the original movie of bardock like more pretentious than it was as if the first one not had mistakes but they were still amazing

with or without minus everybody have always compared goku with superman