Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

Trunks didn't really get to that huge a level though.

Following the Cell Games he trained for over 10 years, he trained with the Supreme Kai and mastered the Z Sword but he still struggled with Dabura.

He shouldn't really be any different from the likes of Buu saga Gohan after he'd masters the sword. Likely why Goku said he was stronger than SSJ2 Gohan at the Cell Games.

He hugely powered up with the Rage form due to it being part Ultra Super Saiyan 2 and possibly part God.

[The gr]

Here's my list of power for the Zen exhibition match [spoiler]

Mr buu:4,900,000,000, enraged:10,000,000,000

Basil surpressed:4,000,000,000, full power:4,500,000,000, drugged:9,990,000,000

Gohan Base:80,000,000, super Saiyan stack up with mystic:4,640,000,000, essentially a 58 time multiplier thanks to his mystic essence

lavenda:4,600,000,000

Now the hard ones goku base:95,500,000, super Saiyan:4,775,000,000,ssb:95,000,000,000,000, kaioken:180,000,000,000,000

Bergamo:95,500,000, full power[a speculation]:4,700,000,000, with Goku power:4,800,000,000, with SS power+his full power:20,000,000,000,000 Wolfgang penetrator:150,000,000,000,000

toppo surpressed:4,800,000,000, serious:94,996,999,999,999[/spoiler] what are thought on this, Bergamo is hard to scale since he is never shown his full power, and toppo is a bit tricky due of his performance against ssb

[amuroray]

Its as clear as day that goku has a new transformation hes hiding away or gets in this tournament based on this episode and the other info around this saga(the opening for starters)

Will be using that new form in the final fight against jiren for sure.

[ZombieVito]

Well usually just "Kaioken" should be x2 right?

That is what would make the most sense to me anyway. If Vegeta and Trunks together can overpower Zamasu then they'd individually be over half as strong as Merged Zamasu.

Goku would also be over half as strong as Merged Zamasu so with the Kaioken doubling his power then that would be why he smashed him as he did.

Goku and Vegeta powered hugely since the Universe 6 saga so I have no issue with that Kaioken x2 Goku being significantly stronger than his former Kaioken x10 self.

Zamasu only being twice as strong as Goku and Vegeta seems way too low for a Portara fusion. If Goku increased that much wouldn't they mentioned it? It's a very big fucking gain to make and not say a word.

I'm still not convinced Goku surpassed Zamasu with the Kaioken. His halo could work like Pokemon as one poster said at the time.

[sintzu]

In the last manga chapter Goku says that Zamasu is just a weak immortal who Trunks (he just has ssj2 in the manga) can beat meaning that black was leads ahead of him power wise so is this the case in the anime or were they equally strong ?

[Khin]

Regarding Merged Zamasu, I still think he lost huge amount of power after he got hit by the Kamehameha. Basically, Goku only surpassed Zamasu with the Kaio-ken because he got weaker. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think someone who got half his body blasted away will lose huge power.

[Cabba]

WOW the new manga chapter was amazing!!! Vegeta was bad ass in that form he looked so good. It looked like the prince was back
Here is the conclusion i came to
I think the level base Goku and Vegeta showed in FnF is now relegated to their regular super saiyan forms. I think they made this to bring back SS to relevance since it is such an iconic transformation. I made a post earlier on this thread how in the manga regular Vegeta SS is at least Vegeto SS tier while fighting black and now SSG return fills the void between SS and SSB

Manga Goku and Vegeta
Base ??? i dont know where this falls need more info
Regular SS(2) Above Vegeto SS
SSG & SSB In their respective levels

Anime
Base ??? i dont know where this falls need more info
Regular SS(2): SSG tier
SSB Self explanatory level

[Bullza]

Zamasu only being twice as strong as Goku and Vegeta seems way too low for a Portara fusion. If Goku increased that much wouldn't they mentioned it? It's a very big fucking gain to make and not say a word.

I'm still not convinced Goku surpassed Zamasu with the Kaioken. His halo could work like Pokemon as one poster said at the time.

Well I'd guess that the Potara Fusion boost probably wasn't small or anything and it was just a matter of Goku and Vegeta being considerably more powerful than Black and certainly Zamasu than we may have realised.

They only began to use their full power that second time when they'd destroyed the purple cloud apparition so before that when they were fighting Black they likely weren't giving it their all.

For Vegeta he just trained and got angry. Trunks got angry. No idea why Goku was so strong but how far off from them could they really be if Vegeta and Trunks and then Goku could overpower him?

Even aside from breaking the halo, he was able to break the grip and one kick smashed him flying into the ground. He got up and summoned that extra power before labelling himself as a weak God.

In the last manga chapter Goku says that Zamasu is just a weak immortal who Trunks (he just has ssj2 in the manga) can beat meaning that black was leads ahead of him power wise so is this the case in the anime or were they equally strong ?

I've always thought so. I never thought there was any significant difference in strength between the Present and Future Zamasu to be honest.

In the manga they said he's weaker than SSJ2 Trunks. In the anime he was weaker than SSJ2 Goku. Later on he fought Trunks and Trunks got one over on him so I've always thought Zamasu was the weakest of the lot.

[Cabba]

It was the episode where vegeta fought base black

I see thanks

[ChiefWamsutta]

He hugely powered up with the Rage form due to it being part Ultra Super Saiyan 2 and possibly part God.

I always saw SSRage as the polar opposite of SSBlue. Rage is the power strain and anger form of god; blue is the ki control and calmness form of god.

[Bullza]

I just wish we knew if it actually was God Ki or not. It looks like it but nothing ever suggested that it was and it might not even make sense for it to be.

Going by the name and what you see happen he got really angry, he transformed into a Ultra Super Saiyan and then this blue aura looking thing shrank him back down. It just looks like he's fighting with the strength of the Ultra Super Saiyan but without losing any speed.

I don't know why they'd purposefully show that if it wasn't the main reason for why he's so strong. If he'd obtained God Ki then that would have been reason enough.

[Doctor.]

My God scale:

[spoiler]SSG Goku: 1
-- post power-ups: 2.5

SBG Goku (F/Filler): 2.5
SSB Goku (F): 3
-- U6/FT: 3.5
-- KKx2: 7
-- KKx10: 35
-- post Mafuba training/US: 7.5
-- KKx2: 15

Freeza: 2.5
-- Golden: 4

SBG Vegeta (F/Filler): 2.5
SSB Vegeta (F): 3
-- U6/FT: 3.5
-- post-training/US: 7

Hit: 3
-- post-improvement: 7
-- filler/US: 7.5

Black: 2.5
-- SSR: 5
-- scythe: 8

SSI Trunks: 5

Merged Zamasu: 15
-- corrupted: 18

SSB Vegetto: 20

Toppo: 7.5

Beerus: 45
Champa: 44

Whis: 75
Vados: 76

Everyone else is either irrelevant or their power is unknown.[/spoiler]

[Zamasu55]

My God scale:

[spoiler]SSG Goku: 1
-- post power-ups: 2.5

SBG Goku (F/Filler): 2.5
SSB Goku (F): 3
-- U6/FT: 3.5
-- KKx2: 7
-- KKx10: 35
-- post Mafuba training/US: 7.5
-- KKx2: 15

Freeza: 2.5
-- Golden: 4

SBG Vegeta (F/Filler): 2.5
SSB Vegeta (F): 3
-- U6/FT: 3.5
-- post-training/US: 7

Hit: 3
-- post-improvement: 7
-- filler/US: 7.5

Black: 2.5
-- SSR: 5
-- scythe: 8

SSI Trunks: 5

Merged Zamasu: 15
-- corrupted: 18

SSB Vegetto: 20

Toppo: 7.5

Beerus: 45
Champa: 44

Whis: 75
Vados: 76

Everyone else is either irrelevant or their power is unknown.[/spoiler]

Toppo is probably weaker than Trunks.

[MagmonKai]

My God scale:

[spoiler]SSG Goku: 1
-- post power-ups: 2.5

SBG Goku (F/Filler): 2.5
SSB Goku (F): 3
-- U6/FT: 3.5
-- KKx2: 7
-- KKx10: 35
-- post Mafuba training/US: 7.5
-- KKx2: 15

Freeza: 2.5
-- Golden: 4

SBG Vegeta (F/Filler): 2.5
SSB Vegeta (F): 3
-- U6/FT: 3.5
-- post-training/US: 7

Hit: 3
-- post-improvement: 7
-- filler/US: 7.5

Black: 2.5
-- SSR: 5
-- scythe: 8

SSI Trunks: 5

Merged Zamasu: 15
-- corrupted: 18

SSB Vegetto: 20

Toppo: 7.5

Beerus: 45
Champa: 44

Whis: 75
Vados: 76

Everyone else is either irrelevant or their power is unknown.[/spoiler]

I like that you used simplistic numbers. I hate when people use these "billions" figures. I don't know what you're basing this off of though?

[Bullza]

Don't people think that Super Saiyan Blue should just be 50 times as strong as Super Saiyan God like how Super Saiyan is 50 times as strong as Base?

[Noah]

My God scale:

I don't agree with Beerus being way above Vegetto Blue and Merged Zamasu, but still a good list.

[Marlowe89]

Don't people think that Super Saiyan Blue should just be 50 times as strong as Super Saiyan God like how Super Saiyan is 50 times as strong as Base?

Personally I don't think so. Ever since the films there have been a few things implying that the gap between those transformations wasn't initially intended to be that large, but even as recently as the latest manga chapter, Super Saiyan God Vegeta is shown casually keeping up with Super Saiyan Rose Black even when he's not using those short bursts of Super Saiyan Blue for his attacks.

I think the reason for this is because Super Saiyan Blue isn't STRICTLY a progression of Super Saiyan God in a literal sense. It's just Super Saiyan, only combined with the power of Super Saiyan God. One might even argue that it's mathematically Goku's power level as a Super Saiyan layered on top of his power level as a Super Saiyan God, although we never can be too sure.

[BlueBasilisk]

Its as clear as day that goku has a new transformation hes hiding away or gets in this tournament based on this episode and the other info around this saga(the opening for starters)

It certainly seems that way. He was just dying to show Toppo something and I don't think Kaioken was it. But I can't figure how he would have come up with a new one when he's been slacking on his training.

[TheMikado]

Don't people think that Super Saiyan Blue should just be 50 times as strong as Super Saiyan God like how Super Saiyan is 50 times as strong as Base?

Personally I don't think so. Ever since the films there have been a few things implying that the gap between those transformations wasn't initially intended to be that large, but even as recently as the latest manga chapter, Super Saiyan God Vegeta is shown casually keeping up with Super Saiyan Rose Black even when he's not using those short bursts of Super Saiyan Blue for his attacks.

I think the reason for this is because Super Saiyan Blue isn't STRICTLY a progression of Super Saiyan God in a literal sense. It's just Super Saiyan, only combined with the power of Super Saiyan God. One might even argue that it's mathematically Goku's power level as a Super Saiyan layered on top of his power level as a Super Saiyan God, although we never can be too sure.

It doesn't seem to affect God ki the same way and appears to give maybe an x10 on SSB over SSG.

I actually find it crazier that he's able to stack SSJ on top of God ki and then stack KK on top of that.

[Dai-Saiyajin]

My power Level List

[spoiler]Transformations:

Super Saiyan______________ +40
Super Saiyan 2_____________+80
Super Saiyan 2 (Mastered)___ +110
Super Saiyan 3_____________+120
Super Saiyan Rage__________+1.000
Super Saiyan God___________40x base
Super Saiyan Blue__________ 50x base
Super Saiyan Rosé__________ 2.5x base


Universe 6 vs Universe 7 Tournament:

Piccolo_____________40
Vegeta_____________15
Vegeta (SS)__________55
Vegeta (SSB)_________750
Goku_______________16
Goku (SS)___________56
Goku (SSG)__________640
Goku (SSB)__________800
Goku (SSB+KK 2x)____1.600
Goku (SSB+KK 10x)___4.800
Botamo_____________12
Frost_______________14
Frost (Assault Form)__18
Frost (Final Form)____45
Magetta_____________60
Kyabe______________13
Kyabe (SS)__________53
Hitto_______________700
Hitto (0,2 sec tktb)___740
Hitto (0,5 sec tktb)___800
Hitto (1,0 sec tktb)___900
Champa_____________4.900
Beerus______________ 5.000
Whis________________7.500
Vados_______________7.600


Future Trunks Saga:

Trunks_________________20
Trunks (MSS2)__________ 130
Trunks (SSR)____________1.020
Trunks (GenkiSword)_____2.100
Vegeta_________________16
Vegeta (SSB)____________800
Vegeta (Post HTC)_______ 22
Vegeta (SSG)____________880
Vegeta (SSB)____________1.100
Goku___________________17
Goku (SS)_______________ 57
Goku (SS2)______________ 97
Goku (SS3)______________ 137
Goku (SSG)______________ 680
Goku (SSB)_______________850
Goku (Post mafuba training)_20
Goku (SSB)_______________1.000
Goku (SSB+KK 2x)_________ 2.000
Vegetto__________________840
Vegetto (SSB)_____________4.200
Zamasu__________________90
Future Zamasu____________100
Goku Black_______________ 340
Goku Black (1st Zenkai)_____350
Goku Black (Rosé)__________875
Goku Black (2nd Zenkai)_____380
Goku Black (Rosé)__________950
Goku Black (3rd Zenkai)_____400
Goku Black (Rosé)__________1.000
Merged Zamasu (Halo)_______2.200
Merged Zamasu (Damaged)___1.650
Merged Zamasu (Mutated)____3.600
Merged Zamasu (Bulky)______2.000


Universal Survival Saga:

Majin Buu__________120
Gohan_____________12
Gohan (SS)_________52
Goku______________20
Goku (SS)__________60
Goku (SSB)_________1.000
Goku (SSB+KK 2x)___2.000
Basil______________55
Basil (Druged)______110
Lavender__________40
Bergamo__________ 60
Bergamo (Big)______100
Bergamo (Giant)____500
Toppo_____________950
Champa___________4.900
Beerus____________5.000
Whis______________7.500
Vados_____________7.600
Daishinkan_________100.000[/spoiler]