The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[White Oni]

Trunks and Goten (Both Pre and Post ROSAT) vs. 2 Cell Jr.

Goten fucks them up. They're on par with CG Z fighters are and post they're about Kid Gohan power.

Lol what?

What makes you say that?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Trunks and Goten (Both Pre and Post ROSAT) vs. 2 Cell Jr.

They use Fusion and destroy them.

I don't think they are stronger than Vegeta & Trunks from the Cell Games were. They get their asses kicked.

[Darkron2151]

They use Fusion and destroy them.

Very true

I don't think they are stronger than Vegeta & Trunks from the Cell Games were. They get their asses kicked.

I have the boys on par CG Vegeta and Future Trunks at first, just so they can still contend with The Great Singing Man, and then surpass the CG duo post ROSAT. I have pre Goten losing to a Cell Jr and then equal to one one post.

• CG Vegeta (SSJ): 21
  CG Future Trunks (SSJ): 20
  Cell Jr: 24
  
  Pre Goten (SSJ): 20
  Post Goten (SSJ): 24
  Pre Trunks (SSJ): 22
  Post Trunks (SSJ): 26

However, the Cell Jr's do have a much wider variety of attacks and techniques to use, so that could be a deciding factor in this match-up because it's almost even power-wise.

[White Oni]

They use Fusion and destroy them.

Very true

I don't think they are stronger than Vegeta & Trunks from the Cell Games were. They get their asses kicked.

I have the boys on par CG Vegeta and Future Trunks at first, just so they can still contend with The Great Singing Man, and then surpass the CG duo post ROSAT. I have pre Goten losing to a Cell Jr and then equal to one one post.

• CG Vegeta (SSJ): 21
  CG Future Trunks (SSJ): 20
  Cell Jr: 24
  
  Pre Goten (SSJ): 20
  Post Goten (SSJ): 24
  Pre Trunks (SSJ): 22
  Post Trunks (SSJ): 26

However, the Cell Jr's do have a much wider variety of attacks and techniques to use, so that could be a deciding factor in this match-up because it's almost even power-wise.

I have have the kids around this level:

Pre Goten (ssj): 3,000,000 PL
Post Goten(ssj): 4,200,000 PL
Pre Trunks (ssj): 3,600,000 PL
Post Trunks (ssj): 4,800,000 PL

And

Cell Jr.: 720,000,000 PL

So they get stomped by cell Jr.

[Darkron2151]

I have have the kids around this level:

Pre Goten (ssj): 3,000,000 PL
Post Goten(ssj): 4,200,000 PL
Pre Trunks (ssj): 3,600,000 PL
Post Trunks (ssj): 4,800,000 PL

And

Cell Jr.: 720,000,000 PL

So they get stomped by cell Jr.

Just out of curiosity, are your numbers actual power levels or just representations of powers with numbers like mine. If they're power levels, then why do you have SSJ Goten on par with Base Namek Goku?

[White Oni]

I have have the kids around this level:

Pre Goten (ssj): 3,000,000 PL
Post Goten(ssj): 4,200,000 PL
Pre Trunks (ssj): 3,600,000 PL
Post Trunks (ssj): 4,800,000 PL

And

Cell Jr.: 720,000,000 PL

So they get stomped by cell Jr.

Just out of curiosity, are your numbers actual power levels or just representations of powers with numbers like mine. If they're power levels, then why do you have SSJ Goten on par with Base Namek Goku?

Yes, actual power levels.

Why? Is that too high?

[Darkron2151]

Yes, actual power levels.

Why? Is that too high?

They're just a little low for my taste. May I ask why you have the boys so low?

[White Oni]

Yes, actual power levels.

Why? Is that too high?

They're just a little low for my taste. May I ask why you have the boys so low?

Well they're pretty much featless so I'm just sorta going off of the fact I think they're gifted with amazing genes.

So I look at someone like gohan, who's really the only frame of reference we get(he's a half Saiyan too), and I take into consideration their amazing natural talent.

Gohan is about the same age as the boys when he was on namek, yet he recieved about insane training, life or death experiences, and guru's unlocking power boost.

All that being said, he was around 20,000 PL, in my book, when he was the boys age.

Now, the boys never really recieved the training, experiences, or boosts that gohan did. In fact, goten hadn't even learned to properly controll his ki attacks.

BUT, the one thing they had over gohan was "superior genetics" (a fact that's arguably not true)

So I guess that fact warrants them being around base goku on namek, when they're ssj.

[TheGmGoken]

But Gohan said they would beat him if Gohan never trained. Trunks even gave Vegeta trouble. There's no way SSJ Goten is base Goku Namek.

No
Way

[mysticboy]

I had the boys at 200k in base form.

[TheGmGoken]

I had the boys at 200k in base form.

What makes you say that when they're on pat with Gohan and 18. Even Vegeta was slightly shocked

[Darkron2151]

Well they're pretty much featless so I'm just sorta going off of the fact I think they're gifted with amazing genes.

So I look at someone like gohan, who's really the only frame of reference we get(he's a half Saiyan too), and I take into consideration their amazing natural talent.

Gohan is about the same age as the boys when he was on namek, yet he recieved about insane training, life or death experiences, and guru's unlocking power boost.

All that being said, he was around 20,000 PL, in my book, when he was the boys age.

Now, the boys never really recieved the training, experiences, or boosts that gohan did. In fact, goten hadn't even learned to properly controll his ki attacks.

BUT, the one thing they had over gohan was "superior genetics" (a fact that's arguably not true)

So I guess that fact warrants them being around base goku on namek, when they're ssj.

They do have a few feats though, and there are also some implications that they are considerably strong, even among the other Saiyans:

• 1. Goten sparring almost evenly with Gohan, even when they're both Super Saiyans.
  2. Trunks actually landing a punch to Vegeta's face. Even though it did little to no damage, the fact that he actually hit a Super Saiyan Vegeta that was on guard is pretty notable.
  3. Both fighting against a suppressed Android 18 almost evenly in Base and then Trunks firing a suppressed ki attack as a Super Saiyan with enough power to cause considerable damage if not kill her if she hadn't have dogded. Goten even fears for her life when Trunks mentions that he's gonna fire an attack.
  4. The look on Piccolo's face when they charge up to full power (priceless), not to mention the fact that he wasn't quick enough to stop Goten and Trunks trying to save Vegeta from Buu.
  5. Piccolo mentions that those 2 are their last hope when Buu survived Vegeta's blast, and that was before anyone knew about fusion. Why would they be the Earth's last hope if they were so weak?

As for genetics, they're all under the same roof, unless you count Gohan's "hidden power" that he uses only when he's angry until Elder Kai shows up. Otherwise, they're all "Half-Saiyans". As Half-Saiyans, they have the natural potential to become stronger than pure Saiyans. Plus, the boys did go through some training. Vegeta started training Trunks when he first started walking (dub line) with the sole purpose of making Trunks stronger than Gohan. Goten got trained by his mom also

[White Oni]

But Gohan said they would beat him if Gohan never trained. Trunks even gave Vegeta trouble. There's no way SSJ Goten is base Goku Namek.

No
Way

No he said that if he stopped training they would surpass him.

There's nothing wrong with that statement on my analysis of their power.

They're pretty young and untrained, and they're namek base goku level? Lol

Gohan was already getting weaker. So I mean, unless you think he meant "If I don't train tomorrow, they'll surpass me." I don't see an issue.

Also, lol at suggesting that trunks gave vegeta trouble.

[White Oni]

I had the boys at 200k in base form.

What makes you say that when they're on pat with Gohan and 18. Even Vegeta was slightly shocked

They're not on par with 18 in my book.

[Darkron2151]

They're pretty young and untrained, and they're namek base goku level? Lol

Gohan was already getting weaker. So I mean, unless you think he meant "If I don't train tomorrow, they'll surpass me." I don't see an issue.

Also, lol at suggesting that trunks gave vegeta trouble.

If your levels are the case, then Gohan wouldn't have to train for 20 years and he STILL would probably be stronger than the boys. And he didn't give Vegeta trouble, but the fact is he managed to hit a Super Saiyan Vegeta who has been training non-stop for 7 years after the fight with Cell in the face (while he was on guard I might add). That's a feat I'm not sure Android 18, or even Piccolo, can do.

[White Oni]

Well they're pretty much featless so I'm just sorta going off of the fact I think they're gifted with amazing genes.

So I look at someone like gohan, who's really the only frame of reference we get(he's a half Saiyan too), and I take into consideration their amazing natural talent.

Gohan is about the same age as the boys when he was on namek, yet he recieved about insane training, life or death experiences, and guru's unlocking power boost.

All that being said, he was around 20,000 PL, in my book, when he was the boys age.

Now, the boys never really recieved the training, experiences, or boosts that gohan did. In fact, goten hadn't even learned to properly controll his ki attacks.

BUT, the one thing they had over gohan was "superior genetics" (a fact that's arguably not true)

So I guess that fact warrants them being around base goku on namek, when they're ssj.

They do have a few feats though, and there are also some implications that they are considerably strong, even among the other Saiyans:

• 1. Goten sparring almost evenly with Gohan, even when they're both Super Saiyans.
  2. Trunks actually landing a punch to Vegeta's face. Even though it did little to no damage, the fact that he actually hit a Super Saiyan Vegeta that was on guard is pretty notable.
  3. Both fighting against a suppressed Android 18 almost evenly in Base and then Trunks firing a suppressed ki attack as a Super Saiyan with enough power to cause considerable damage if not kill her if she hadn't have dogded. Goten even fears for her life when Trunks mentions that he's gonna fire an attack.
  4. The look on Piccolo's face when they charge up to full power (priceless), not to mention the fact that he wasn't quick enough to stop Goten and Trunks trying to save Vegeta from Buu.
  5. Piccolo mentions that those 2 are their last hope when Buu survived Vegeta's blast, and that was before anyone knew about fusion. Why would they be the Earth's last hope if they were so weak?

As for genetics, they're all under the same roof, unless you count Gohan's "hidden power" that he uses only when he's angry until Elder Kai shows up. Otherwise, they're all "Half-Saiyans". As Half-Saiyans, they have the natural potential to become stronger than pure Saiyans. Plus, the boys did go through some training. Vegeta started training Trunks when he first started walking (dub line) with the sole purpose of making Trunks stronger than Gohan. Goten got trained by his mom also

1) No such thing ever happened. That's entirely fansumption

2) It just shows that Vegeta was caught off guard and or tired.

3) Absolutely nothing suggests 18 was fighting seriously against them. She is shocked by their power, but so are the adult saiyans. It's shocking that they're so strong for kids. Also, lol, she wasn't scared for her life. She was worried about everyone else. the audience, the city, even the planet were at risk of danger. We're talking about little reckless tikes that have the power to blow up earth a thousand times over. Seeing them recklessly fire off blasts that blow up the ocean only a few feet away from a city isn't exactly the most settling thing to see. Especially when you consider that goten nearly killed the announcer earlier and the tikes suggested "bombarding her" after she dodged the first attack.

4) I don't remember this but I seriously doubt they're anywhere near piccolo level.

5) He was already planning on them using the Time chamber. Consider the gains Gohan made in the time chamber. Now consider how much stronger the boys are than gohan was before he entered the chamber. Piccolo knows his potential is tapped/ at least no where near enough to make the necessary gains. The kids truly were their only hope.

[TheGmGoken]

But Gohan said they would beat him if Gohan never trained. Trunks even gave Vegeta trouble. There's no way SSJ Goten is base Goku Namek.

No
Way

No he said that if he stopped training they would surpass him.

There's nothing wrong with that statement on my analysis of their power.

They're pretty young and untrained, and they're namek base goku level? Lol

Gohan was already getting weaker. So I mean, unless you think he meant "If I don't train tomorrow, they'll surpass me." I don't see an issue.

Also, lol at suggesting that trunks gave vegeta trouble.

Trunks trains with Vegeta. Bulma even told Gohan he did. Vegeta even trained Trunks to be stronger than my boy Goten. Trunks indeed gave Vegeta basic trouble. Vegeta had caution appearance on his face. How would Gotenks be "The next hero" as Goku stated if their SSJ power is only Base Goku. They're naturally gifted.

[White Oni]

Hmm, well what about base kids at around base goku during the namek saga?

Does that sound better?

[Darkron2151]

1) No such thing ever happened. That's entirely fansumption

2) It just shows that Vegeta was caught off guard and or tired.

3) Absolutely nothing suggests 18 was fighting seriously against them. She is shocked by their power, but so are the adult saiyans. It's shocking that they're so strong for kids. Also, lol, she wasn't scared for her life. She was worried about everyone else. the audience, the city, even the planet were at risk of danger. We're talking about little reckless tikes that have the power to blow up earth a thousand times over. Seeing them recklessly fire off blasts that blow up the ocean only a few feet away from a city isn't exactly the most settling thing to see. Especially when you consider that goten nearly killed the announcer earlier and the tikes suggested "bombarding her" after she dodged the first attack.

4) I don't remember this but I seriously doubt they're anywhere near piccolo level.

5) He was already planning on them using the Time chamber. Consider the gains Gohan made in the time chamber. Now consider how much stronger the boys are than gohan was before he entered the chamber. Piccolo knows his potential is tapped/ at least no where near enough to make the necessary gains. The kids truly were their only hope.

1. It did happen. You can tell from Gohan's facial expressions and sweating that Goten, at the very least, was giving him a little touble, something that someone with a power level of only 3,000,000 could never do. Plus the Daizenshuu 2 states:

SON GOTEN
A gifted child who mastered Super Saiyan at a young age.
By virtue of being Goku's son, Goten posses battle power not the least bit inferior to even Gohan. On top of being able to unleash a startling amount of power in even his normal state, he can easily transform into a Super Saiyan. Furthermore, he merges with Trunks through a technique known as Fusion.

2. But my point is Vegeta is ON guard the whole time, plus if by some chance Vegeta was tired, then Trunks should have been MUCH more tired because he too was under the same Gravity and worked out for the same amount of time. Plus, even if Vegeta was tired, 3,600,000 isn't even Base Form-level at this point. There is literally NO excuse for him not to block the punch or to not see it coming because, due to the implacations of the "one's battle power makes them see enemy's attacks better" idea that was shown during the Freeza fight, Trunks should be moving in super-slow motion to him.

3. I already said she's suppressed for the tournament, but that's when she's fighting them in Base. But everything changes when they turn Super Saiyan and Trunks fires the ki blast. Goten states clearly that it could kill her, to which Trunks replies that he'll suppress it. And why would she be shocked or why would ANYONE be impressed by these kids if their Super Saiyan forms only hit 3,000,000? That would mean their base levels would only be 60,000 or so, and Kid Gohan was way above that during the battle with Freeza, and that was BEFORE the 3 years of training for the Androids or the ROSAT. If they were this weak, why didn't 18 just tank Trunks' blast like she tanked Vegeta's Big Bang Attack in the Android Saga?

4. That happened when they first were practicing the fusion. Goku told them to power up to their maximum, and when they did, Piccolo makes a face of complete shock.
Plus, if Piccolo was over hundreds of times stronger than the boys as Super Saiyans, why wouldn't he catch them before they had the chance to potentially get killed by Buu in order to save Vegeta? If they're that weak, he should be plenty fast enough to catch them, so why didn't he? It's either they were too fast for him because they're stronger than him or Piccolo's a jerk.

5. Says who? That is not in any way mentioned nor implied in the manga. When they get back to the lookout, they're just sitting there, twiddling their thumbs, wondering what to do against Buu before Goku arrived and mentioned Fusion. Piccolo literally had no ideas at the time, and that their only hope were the boys. The only time the ROSAT is ever mentioned is when they had to brush up on Fusion more and there was no time because Buu showed up early. Plus, Piccolo mentions the time chamber to Goku later, to which he says no because they may need it for the future. Goku was THAT confident in the boys' power and their fusion that they wouldn't need the ROSAT to beat Buu. The boys would've had to be that strong in order for EVERYONE around them to put their faith in them, because it wouldn't make any sense for them to say that their only hope are these two squirts with power levels that doesn't pass 4,000,000 as Super Saiyans.

Plus, the only reason why Gohan made the gainz that he did was because Goku is an expert at training and coached him well. Goten and Trunks wouldn't be so lucky because it would be only themselves and Piccolo. And even if that were the case and they were that weak, I seriously doubt he could've made them anywhere NEAR ready for Buu with only 2 years time, let alone 1 year, if they were only capping out at 4,000,000 in Super Saiyan.

[Darkron2151]

Now Let's do: Super Saiyan 2 Gohan (Buu Saga) vs.

1. Full Power Perfect Cell
2. Swole Perfect Cell
3. Super Perfect Cell