The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Son Edo]

Yup it bothers me too. Especially Kaioshin thinking nothing of Freeza and freaking out over Yakon....

[CordonBloo]

Well this is why I think you shouldn't read too much into the Piccolo and Kaio-Shin thing, what he said can be interpreted many ways. I think if they fought Piccolo could win if he wanted to.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

There's no excuse here, kaioshin is shitting his pants at base Vegeta's playful blast... I mean... Piccolo, if he ever mistakenly assumed kaioshin was "dimensions apart" from him, would probably laugh at himself after seeing this reaction.

He isn't "shitting his pants", why would he? He wasn't going to fight Vegeta. He was surprised because Vegeta could defeat Pui Pui, who is supposed to be a powerful warrior since Babidi only gathers the strongest warriors of the galaxy, so easily without even transforming.

He believes that everyone, including himself, needs to gang up on Yokon... Now this could be excused by the "scary, unpredictable magic" excuse, but this is a fighter/monster that he actually knows of... He knows his power... Soooooo... Yeah...

No, Kaioshin doesn't know his power (Babidi's men's ki can't be measured), nor does he know what magical abilities he could have hidden. He has only heard rumors, which is why he is so cautious.

[White Oni]

There's no excuse here, kaioshin is shitting his pants at base Vegeta's playful blast... I mean... Piccolo, if he ever mistakenly assumed kaioshin was "dimensions apart" from him, would probably laugh at himself after seeing this reaction.

He isn't "shitting his pants", why would he? He wasn't going to fight Vegeta. He was surprised because Vegeta could defeat Pui Pui, who is supposed to be a powerful warrior since Babidi only gathers the strongest warriors of the galaxy, so easily without even transforming.

He believes that everyone, including himself, needs to gang up on Yokon... Now this could be excused by the "scary, unpredictable magic" excuse, but this is a fighter/monster that he actually knows of... He knows his power... Soooooo... Yeah...

No, Kaioshin doesn't know his power (Babidi's men's ki can't be measured), nor does he know what magical abilities he could have hidden. He has only heard rumors, which is why he is so cautious.

Oh give me a break.

Are you serious?

Pui pui was a laughing stalk. He couldn't even come close to landing a blow on base vegeta. By the time of his death there should have been no doubt in kiashin's mind that he was nothing special.

Regardless, he wasn't even talking about the fact that he defeated pui pui, like you suggest. Look at the scene. Both he and babbidi are shocked when vegeta let's out the blast. Kaioshin even halts and stand still in shock, mumbling to himself "what... Power..." With wide eyes.

You honestly think he read that ki output(unless vegeta's ki can't be read either ) and was impressed by it or by the fact that pui pui, someone who could even be harmed, let alone obliterated by it, was defeated, all when he was "dimensions about piccolo"? Come on, this would have looked like child's play.

If there would be any reaction at all, it would be "wow babbidi's men suck." Not "sorry goku it had to stop everything I was doing and get distracted with wide eyes as i try to take in how powerful vegeta's blast was."

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Pui pui was a laughing stalk. He couldn't even come close to landing a blow on base vegeta. By the time of his death there should have been no doubt in kiashin's mind that he was nothing special.

Regardless, he wasn't even talking about the fact that he defeated pui pui, like you suggest. Look at the scene. Both he and babbidi are shocked when vegeta let's out the blast. Kaioshin even halts and stand still in shock, mumbling to himself "what... Power..." With wide eyes.

Yeah, he is impressed with Vegeta's power because he was underestimating him & overestimating Pui Pui. So? He only realizes that he is surpassed by mortals when he sees SS Goku defeating Yakon.

You honestly think he read that ki output(unless vegeta's ki can't be read either ) and was impressed by it or by the fact that pui pui, someone who could even be harmed, let alone obliterated by it, was defeated, all when he was "dimensions about piccolo"? Come on, this would have looked like child's play.

Except that he can't read Babidi's men's ki.

[GTx10]

Much of the higher ranking gods, the Supreme Kai's and Beerus did not think highly of Saiyans in terms of power. Really the big cheese of the universe was Freeza. So Supreme Kai probably felt the same way. Plus Goku and gang mask their powers, (and according to Beerus; don't look like much outside of their SS forms). We know Dabura is equal to Cell (whether its Perfect Cell or Super Cell Idk) so maybe Yakon and Pui Pui are equal to AboCado? (Who was said to be stronger than Freeza at that point) Thus explaining Supreme Kai's constant freaking out.

[White Oni]

The other issue is that babbidi seems pretty convinced that pui pui and yokkon are more than enough to take on Kaioshin and friends...

I guess we could say that he has no idea How strong Kaioshin is, and never thought to read his energy with his weird device...

[Kamiccolo9]

The other issue is that babbidi seems pretty convinced that pui pui and yokkon are more than enough to take on Kaioshin and friends...

I guess we could say that he has no idea How strong Kaioshin is, and never thought to read his energy with his weird device...

As for that last point, he might not have been able to read Kaioshin's ki. Babidi and his father's magic has shown to have weird interactions with Kaioshins in general, so that's not really a stretch.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The other issue is that babbidi seems pretty convinced that pui pui and yokkon are more than enough to take on Kaioshin and friends...

When did Babidi say that his henchmen could beat Kaioshin?

I guess we could say that he has no idea How strong Kaioshin is, and never thought to read his energy with his weird device...

Going by BoG, Babidi shouldn't know how strong Kaioshin was.

[White Oni]

The other issue is that babbidi seems pretty convinced that pui pui and yokkon are more than enough to take on Kaioshin and friends...

When did Babidi say that his henchmen could beat Kaioshin?

I guess we could say that he has no idea How strong Kaioshin is, and never thought to read his energy with his weird device...

Going by BoG, Babidi shouldn't know how strong Kaioshin was.

He's confident in pui pui and is shocked that he was defeated. Then, when he's about to send out yokkon, he and Dabura, who can supposedly read ki, have a conversation about how yokon will slaughter them all.

Woah, wait, what in BoG says they can't read his ki?

[Kamiccolo9]

The other issue is that babbidi seems pretty convinced that pui pui and yokkon are more than enough to take on Kaioshin and friends...

When did Babidi say that his henchmen could beat Kaioshin?

I guess we could say that he has no idea How strong Kaioshin is, and never thought to read his energy with his weird device...

Going by BoG, Babidi shouldn't know how strong Kaioshin was.

He's confident in pui pui and is shocked that he was defeated. Then, when he's about to sent out yokkon, he and Dabura, can supposedly read ki, have a conversation about how yokon will slaughter them all.

Woah, wait, what in BoG says they can't read his ki?

BoG says that god ki can't be sensed by non-god beings. Kaioshin is a god.

[White Oni]

BoG says that god ki can't be sensed by non-god beings. Kaioshin is a god.

No he's not he's a Kai.

There's a distinct difference and it's made in both the sub and dub.

Kai ki is readable, "god" ki not.

Goku uses it to teleport to kaio's place,


But if you're going to suggest that kaioshin's ki can't be sensed, I'm fine with that, as conceding such a fact would make any argument of piccolo saying Kaioshin was stronger than him, completely inert, as there would be know way of him knowing that at all.

[Kamiccolo9]

BoG says that god ki can't be sensed by non-god beings. Kaioshin is a god.

No he's not he's a Kai.

There's a distinct difference and it's made in both the sub and dub.

Kai ki is readable, "god" ki not.

Goku uses it to teleport to kaio's place,


But if you're going to suggest that kaioshin's ki can't be sensed, I'm fine with that, as conceding such a fact would make any argument of piccolo saying Kaioshin was stronger than him, completely inert, as there would be know way of him knowing that at all.

The Kaioshin are said to be the gods of creation, in the same material that describes Beerus as the god of destruction.

And no, no difference is made.

Piccolo possibly has god ki, seeing as he fused with the god of Earth.

[White Oni]

BoG says that god ki can't be sensed by non-god beings. Kaioshin is a god.

No he's not he's a Kai.

There's a distinct difference and it's made in both the sub and dub.

Kai ki is readable, "god" ki not.

Goku uses it to teleport to kaio's place,


But if you're going to suggest that kaioshin's ki can't be sensed, I'm fine with that, as conceding such a fact would make any argument of piccolo saying Kaioshin was stronger than him, completely inert, as there would be know way of him knowing that at all.

The Kaioshin are said to be the gods of creation, in the same material that describes Beerus as the god of destruction.

And no, no difference is made.

Piccolo possibly has god ki, seeing as he fused with the god of Earth.

No difference was made? Lol how about using an entirely different word, from another language...

Again, goku teleports to kaio's place by sensing his ki.

Also, piccolo having god ki?
Really? -___- come on.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

He's confident in pui pui and is shocked that he was defeated. Then, when he's about to send out yokkon, he and Dabura, who can supposedly read ki, have a conversation about how yokon will slaughter them all.

He is confident that Pui Pui & Yakon can beat the Saiyans, and shocked that the Saiyans could beat them from what I recall.

No he's not he's a Kai.

There is no such thing called a "Kai".

[Kamiccolo9]

No difference was made? Lol how about using an entirely different word, from another language...

Again, goku teleports to kaio's place by sensing his ki.

Also, piccolo having god ki?
Really? -___- come on.

Again, the Kaioshin are specifically called gods of creation. If you have issue with that, take it up with Toriyama, not me. Furthermore, the Shin-jin, which is the true name of the race that the Kaios and the Kaioshin come from, literally means "God People."
To my knowledge, he never specifies that he senses Kaio's ki. For all we know, he senses Bubbles.
Piccolo fused with a god. I don't see why it's so outlandish to think that he has some kind of divine abilities from that. The fact that he reacted to Kaioshin in the first place while no one else did implies that anyway.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

To my knowledge, he never specifies that he senses Kaio's ki. For all we know, he senses Bubbles.

He said that he was looking for Kaio's ki in Cell arc, and Gohan says that he can sense Dende's ki in Boo arc.

However, Kuririn says that he can't tell how strong God Goku is (or something similar), not that he can't sense him at all. This would imply that a mortal can sense a god's ki, but measure it.

[Kamiccolo9]

To my knowledge, he never specifies that he senses Kaio's ki. For all we know, he senses Bubbles.

He said that he was looking for Kaio's ki in Cell arc, and Gohan says that he can sense Dende's ki in Boo arc.

However, Kuririn says that he can't tell how strong God Goku is (or something similar), not that he can't sense him at all. This would imply that a mortal can sense a god's ki, but measure it.

Ah, ok. Thanks.

Yeah, that makes more sense. Does anyone actually mention not being able to sense Beerus at all in the movie?

[White Oni]

To my knowledge, he never specifies that he senses Kaio's ki. For all we know, he senses Bubbles.

He said that he was looking for Kaio's ki in Cell arc, and Gohan says that he can sense Dende's ki in Boo arc.

However, Kuririn says that he can't tell how strong God Goku is (or something similar), not that he can't sense him at all. This would imply that a mortal can sense a god's ki, but measure it.

Ah, ok. Thanks.

Yeah, that makes more sense. Does anyone actually mention not being able to sense Beerus at all in the movie?

Yes, kaio slaps goku over the head and tells him that he can't be sensed, not "measured", "sensed." That's why his coming to kaio's planet was a surprise.

If he was able to be sensed but not measured, then that scene made absolutely no sense.

[White Oni]

Also, Kibitokai was sensed by Goku when he says "I believe we can take buu on now!" and goku says "we're no where near strong enough" or something to that effect.

This is something he'd have no right saying if kibito kai's ki couldn't be sensed or measured, as Goku had not seen the effects of potara fusion yet, and for all he knew, (assuming kibitokai's ki was unreadable) Kibitokai was telling the truth.