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Beerus wins, easily. Goku said that even if he & Vegeta were to merge, they would probably not be enough for Beerus, and when he turns into God, he is surprised that such a level even existed, and Beerus can get much stronger than that.Zombie wrote:SSJ3 Vegetto vs Beerus.
Vegeta can only win with a rage boost.Mr.Buu vs SSJ2 Majin Vegeta/SSJ2 Vegeta (BoG).
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Zombie wrote:SSJ3 Vegetto vs Beerus.
What he said.DBZGTKOSDH wrote: Beerus wins, easily. Goku said that even if he & Vegeta were to merge, they would probably not be enough for Beerus, and when he turns into God, he is surprised that such a level even existed, and Beerus can get much stronger than that.
I'm assuming you mean Vegeta before his Rage Boost. If so, Vegeta loses. He didn't gain that much during the 5 years between Buu and BOG, maybe 20-25% IMO. Mr. Buu, though much weaker than Kid Buu, still faired much better against him than Vegeta did, so I have Mr. Buu in the High SSJ2, even Low SSJ3 Range.Mr.Buu vs SSJ2 Majin Vegeta/SSJ2 Vegeta (BoG).
I think Rocketman's answer is the most likely, but putting aside character flaws... I'm pretty sure that if Videl's tough and tenacious enough to hang with the power-bloated Spopovich, then she could tackle somebody moderately weaker than start-of-DB kid Goku. Simply learning the basics of harnessing ki would most likely give Videl a decent little power level boost.Doctor. wrote:Videl post-training vs Yamcha (Start of DB)
The jury's out on this one, for me. The "even Fusion with Vegeta probably wouldn't be enough" line from Goku in the extended edition was a nice little addition, but pretty vague. Is he factoring in hypothetical forms that Vegetto never displayed before? Is he even thinking of Vegetto, or just using the Fusion Dance?Zombie wrote:SSJ3 Vegetto vs Beerus.
If you mean Mr. Boo after purging his evil and losing the majority of his power... then Vegeta might take this. Mr. Boo could be on-par with or weaker than the Super Saiyan 2s (depending on how strong you consider him pre-purge), but able to last longer against Pure Boo because of broken Boo-regeneration.Zombie wrote:Mr.Buu vs SSJ2 Majin Vegeta/SSJ2 Vegeta (BoG).
People keep saying this, but I've yet to see even a shred of proof that Videl can do any of the stuff Yamcha was depicted as doing (surviving direct hits to the face from someone who one-shotted a bear, getting hit through walls, knocking his opponent through several stone pillars, having punches more powerful than bullets or axe swings, etc.). A single pistol bullet is enough to kill her, and she's never displayed any superhuman feats at all.I think Rocketman's answer is the most likely, but putting aside character flaws... I'm pretty sure that if Videl's tough and tenacious enough to hang with the power-bloated Spopovich, then she could tackle somebody moderately weaker than start-of-DB kid Goku. Simply learning the basics of harnessing ki would most likely give Videl a decent little power level boost.
Basically a repeat of his fight with Fat Buu. Vegeta could not have improved much in just a few years on Earth, and last time we saw him, Mr. Buu was strong enough to put up a fight against Pure Buu.Mr.Buu vs SSJ2 Majin Vegeta/SSJ2 Vegeta (BoG).
Super Baby 1 > Beerus > Godku > SS3 Vegetto, based on Goku saying that fusion wouldn't be able to Beerus (even though he had Potara earrings).SSJ3 Vegetto vs Beerus.
Except it's not just a matter of him "lasting longer".If you mean Mr. Boo after purging his evil and losing the majority of his power... then Vegeta might take this. Mr. Boo could be on-par with or weaker than the Super Saiyan 2s (depending on how strong you consider him pre-purge), but able to last longer against Pure Boo because of broken Boo-regeneration.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Pretty much what I think. We never knew if Vegetto can turn SSJ2 or SSJ3. We can only factor in SSJ1 Vegetto IMO.Kaboom wrote:The jury's out on this one, for me. The "even Fusion with Vegeta probably wouldn't be enough" line from Goku in the extended edition was a nice little addition, but pretty vague. Is he factoring in hypothetical forms that Vegetto never displayed before? Is he even thinking of Vegetto, or just using the Fusion Dance?Zombie wrote:SSJ3 Vegetto vs Beerus.
If there's any truth to the "godly ki always beats normal ki" theory, then Vegetto would lose.
Same. SSJ3 Vegetto does not exist outside of DB Heroes so I just go by regular Super Vegetto when Goku mentions fusion not being enough. Personally, unless the god ki always beating normal ki is true, id say Vegetto takes this. I personally place his SSJ2 on par with Beerus and SSJ3 surpassing him.Zombie wrote:Pretty much what I think. We never knew if Vegetto can turn SSJ2 or SSJ3. We can only factor in SSJ1 Vegetto IMO.Kaboom wrote:The jury's out on this one, for me. The "even Fusion with Vegeta probably wouldn't be enough" line from Goku in the extended edition was a nice little addition, but pretty vague. Is he factoring in hypothetical forms that Vegetto never displayed before? Is he even thinking of Vegetto, or just using the Fusion Dance?Zombie wrote:SSJ3 Vegetto vs Beerus.
If there's any truth to the "godly ki always beats normal ki" theory, then Vegetto would lose.
There's also the fact that using the Portara will be a definitive deal this time, I doubt they will consider it at that time, Fusion Dance seems more likely to me.
Beerus stomps. Goku said even fusion wouldn't be enough and this was after he witnessed Beerus whoop his ass without using anywhere near his full power. Not to mention Goku wouldn't talk about a lesser super saiyan form in that context and to say Vegito can't use ssj3 is ridiculous as even Gotenks could.Zombie wrote:SSJ3 Vegetto vs Beerus.
If it's Vegeta with his rage boost then Buu gets his teeth kicked in. If not then he loses.Mr.Buu vs SSJ2 Majin Vegeta/SSJ2 Vegeta (BoG).
But he says that if he merge with Vegeta in general, he'll probably won't stand a chance. He doesn't specify "If I use Fusion with Vegeta" or "If I use the Potara with Vegeta", nor does he say anything "but hey, we've never tried SS2 or SS3, so who knows?". He simply says that if they merge, they'll probably not stand a chance. This generic statement covers from Veku, to SS3 Vegetto. There is no reason not to cover them, and it doesn't make much sense if it doesn't cover them.Kaboom wrote:Is he factoring in hypothetical forms that Vegetto never displayed before? Is he even thinking of Vegetto, or just using the Fusion Dance?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Is that Buu with Cooler, Cell, and Jenemba absorbed? I can't tell. But if that's true, Vegetto still wins.KentalSSJ6 wrote:Super Vegetto VS This guy -
Spoiler:
But a SSJ2 or SSJ3 Vegetto does not exist. For all we know Vegetto will have to train as the kids to reach SSJ3. I think I will stick with "Unless directly stated, Beerus is only stronger than SSJ1 Vegetto"DBZGTKOSDH wrote:But he says that if he merge with Vegeta in general, he'll probably won't stand a chance. He doesn't specify "If I use Fusion with Vegeta" or "If I use the Potara with Vegeta", nor does he say anything "but hey, we've never tried SS2 or SS3, so who knows?". He simply says that if they merge, they'll probably not stand a chance. This generic statement covers from Veku, to SS3 Vegetto. There is no reason not to cover them, and it doesn't make much sense if it doesn't cover them.Kaboom wrote:Is he factoring in hypothetical forms that Vegetto never displayed before? Is he even thinking of Vegetto, or just using the Fusion Dance?
SS Gotenks didn't exist either when Goku was saying that he would be a guy strong enough to kill Boo. Goku isn't an idiot in these things. If he was only talking about SS Vegetto, he would have said something like "though I don't know what would happen if we turned into SS2/3". Instead, he says that they would probably not stand a chance in general.Zombie wrote:But a SSJ2 or SSJ3 Vegetto does not exist.
Gotenks had to train to go SS by himself, yet Vegetto could transform immediately.For all we know Vegetto will have to train as the kids to reach SSJ3.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Yes he did. Before training, the kids had to go SS first, and then use Fusion. After the training, Gotenks could transform on his own. Piccolo was even impressed by that when he saw it.Zombie wrote:Gotenks did not need training to go SS.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Here it is:CordonBloo wrote:Does anyone have that quote from Toriyama where it shows Goku as like a 3, Beerus a 10 and Whis a 15? Or something? When you look at it like that ss3 vegerot would still not be as high as beerus. He's a different order of being after all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables. Incidentally, I guess Whis would be about a 15.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
