"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Voted for Vegetto cause I still don't fancy eating a shoe.

[Cipher]

I don't see anyone but Vegetto showing up so long as the Kaioshin are still present as living Chekhov's guns.

[Miracles]

I voted for Vegetto because that's the most likely option for a fusion. However, I rather see Toyotaro forsake the new potara info and use Gogeta.

Personally, I don't really see any of the in-universe "problems" (height, power, etc) that supposedly prevent his appearing as a significant issue needing to be worked around. Toriyama originally intended for Goku and Vegeta to fuse via the Metamorean dance against Boo, but changed to the potara after learning of the intended content of Movie 12. Despite this, he has continued to make references to both Goku and Vegeta knowing the technique (Vegeta refusing to do the silly dance after Goku suggested it inside Boo, as well as Goku suggesting a broad term 'fusion' still being unable to surpass Beerus in BoG), even if they've never used it. So I'd like to see him finally brought into the/a Toriyama continuity.

Exactly. I wouldn't mind Gogeta.
Both fusions are possible in the story anyway.

[mfwlegend3]

I don't see anyone but Vegetto showing up so long as the Kaioshin are still present as living Chekhov's guns.

This. Like, I really don't understand why people keep suggesting Gogeta when Shin and Gowasu being there is only for Vegetto. Plus, what do we get from Gogeta? Other than, "huh, that's cool, I guess."

[Noah]

Toriyama did this sketch?

We finally got an actual explanation on why they defused against Buu, no more headcanons & theories about that subject.

Not quite, people can still ignore it if they want.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Toriyama did this sketch?

He did, for the Japanese Dragon Box release of the films. Same as he drew SS4 Goku for the GT box.

[batistabus]

I would rather see neither, and I think there's a decent possibility of that. I don't think there's any decent chance we'll see Gogeta for reasons I've explained earlier in this thread. Here are my reasons as to why we might not even see Vegetto...

1. Vegetto is not in the promo art for the arc drawn by Toyotaro, which contains merged Zamasu.
2. Last time Goku and Vegeta had the opportunity to fuse, Vegeta refused by breaking the Potara. The situation was just as dire then as it is here (as far as the characters knew at the time).
3. While RoF made it seem that Goku and Vegeta would undoubtedly never team up, it would also be a marker for a great point of growth if they did. Super has been a bit slow in terms of character development (not as slow as some people suggest, but slow nonetheless), and this would be a great opportunity for them to put their pride aside and work together. If Toriyama had written "Goku and Vegeta work together to fight Zamasu, but they ultimately fail. In a dire situation, Trunks gets the final blow with a new ki sword attack", Toei could've played that out just as easily with Vegetto since that technically requires some cooperation. This could potentially also explain the "potara only lasts forever for Kaioshin" retcon, because Goku and Vegeta would need to be separate people for the future of the series.
4. In the anime, Vegetto looks exactly the same as he did in the Boo arc despite the fact that Vegeta is wearing different clothing. This makes me consider the possibility that Toriyama did not intend for Vegetto to be a part of this conflict, and thus did not bother with a design. Then again, Toriyama could have just as well been fine with reusing the old design, so this doesn't mean too much.
5. The inclusion of Vegetto is inconsequential to the overall fight against merged Zamasu. While it is some nice fan-service, it just serves as something to fill time until Trunks gets the final blow. I also consider the inclusion of Vegetto to be less significant than Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken, which was an anime-only inclusion. While I'm not sure we'll get the 2-face Zamasu effect in the manga, that moment happens before Vegetto brought in.

[Totamo]

We finally got an actual explanation on why they defused against Buu, no more headcanons & theories about that subject.

Not quite, people can still ignore it if they want.

Yeah, they could. This fandom does tend to perfer their headcanons over what it is stated in the Manga or anime.

Which is why we have so many stupid fights

[Noah]

Yeah, they could. This fandom does tend to perfer their headcanons over what it is stated in the Manga or anime.

Which is why we have so many stupid fights

Toyotaro's manga is not the main product and the anime is not based upon it and as said many times: there is no established canon in this franchise.

[Totamo]

Yeah, they could. This fandom does tend to perfer their headcanons over what it is stated in the Manga or anime.

Which is why we have so many stupid fights

Toyotaro's manga is not the main product and the anime is not based upon it and as said many times: there is no established canon in this franchise.

I agree, however, this happened before super. Especially with vs battles and power levels, even though the last one was stated to be future trunks at 5.

[Miracles]

Yeah, they could. This fandom does tend to perfer their headcanons over what it is stated in the Manga or anime.

Which is why we have so many stupid fights

Toyotaro's manga is not the main product and the anime is not based upon it and as said many times: there is no established canon in this franchise.

This is Toriyama's anime and manga. Toyatoro draws based on Toriyama's story and then submits the work to Toriyama for approval.
Once the fandom accepts Toriyama is the authority, they will not be confused.

[Noah]

This is Toriyama's anime and manga. Toyatoro draws based on Toriyama's story and then submits the work to Toriyama for approval.
Once the fandom accepts Toriyama is the authority, they will not be confused.

No, it isn't. The anime is Toei production based on recent movies and Toriyama outlines, Toyotaro draws the manga based on this same outlines that are more focused on gags, recently he said "I feel so proud when I'm picturing my manga in the bookstores..." acknowledging he does most of the work. The problem with all that is that we don't know how much input Toriyama has in both medias, but it seems to be little. Anyway that doesn't change the fact there's no official canon in this franchise and people can stick with that they want.

[mfwlegend3]

1. Vegetto is not in the promo art for the arc drawn by Toyotaro, which contains merged Zamasu.

I'm pretty sure that's the fight BEFORE they fuse. Hell, you see Shin and Gowasu riding on a fucking motorcycle, which I doubt will happen in the manga.

[Grimlock]

Plus, what do we get from Gogeta? Other than, "huh, that's cool, I guess."

What did we get from Vegetto other than Final Kamehameha? He wasn't even wearing a different outfit even though Vegeta was with his armor.

[mfwlegend3]

What did we get from Vegetto other than Final Kamehameha?

Nothing, it was the epitome of something that didn't need to happen in order for the story to push on.

But having Gogeta defies what already was set in stone. You're up against a potara fusion, so you retaliate with a potara fusion. What do you use to fuse? Potara. Who has the potara? Not only one, but two Kaioshin with them in the future.

I'm confident 100% that Gogeta won't happen.

[Miracles]

This is Toriyama's anime and manga. Toyatoro draws based on Toriyama's story and then submits the work to Toriyama for approval.
Once the fandom accepts Toriyama is the authority, they will not be confused.

No, it isn't. The anime is Toei production based on recent movies and Toriyama outlines, Toyotaro draws the manga based on this same outlines that are more focused on gags, recently he said "I feel so proud when I'm picturing my manga in the bookstores..." acknowledging he does most of the work. The problem with all that is that we don't know how much input Toriyama has in both medias, but it seems to be little. Anyway that doesn't change the fact there's no official canon in this franchise and people can stick with that they want.

Not when anime and manga are Toriyama's plot....Here, concerning the anime.....

[spoiler]Toriyama: "Next up in Dragon Ball Super, adult Trunks will be putting in his first appearance in a long time! I put together this story based on a suggestion from the editorial office. Like last time, I write an outline of the ENTIRE plot, then the script writers break it up into episodes, expanding on things, changing things around, or adding in new bits as need be.

http://www.designntrend.com/articles/75 ... k-goku.htm[/spoiler]
Now for the manga.....

[spoiler]"What’s your process working with Toriyama-sensei?!

Toyotaro: I draw a rough draft based on Toriyama-sensei‘s original story, then I send it to my editor, who gets sensei to check it. It’s an honor to be able to give concrete form to sensei‘s ideas, but sometimes sensei will send over a part he drew himself, which sends me into an uproar, going back and forth between being all hyped up and feeling really down in the dumps."[/spoiler]

Also....Look how Toriyama is responsible for things being different in anime and manga....

[spoiler]"What will happen in the rest of the “Future Trunks arc” and afterwards?!
The rest of the “Future Trunks arc” will take a slightly different approach with how things play out, compared to the TV anime. And after that…? “That promise” everyone is waiting for will be fulfilled! But you know Toriyama-sensei! Things won’t go as you expect! Look forward to it!!"

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... r-anatomy/[/spoiler]

[Grimlock]

Nothing, it was the epitome of something that didn't need to happen in order for the story to push on.

The same outcome can be with Gogeta.

But having Gogeta defies what already was set in stone. You're up against a potara fusion, so you retaliate with a potara fusion.

What is set in stone? Yeah, you can retaliate with a Potara fusion, but you can also retaliate with a Metamoran fusion. Trunks is always babbling about humans, humans' world, humans are the ones to make the future, do not underestimate humans, humans here, humans there... Doing the Metamoran fusion (also known as human fusion) is also a good idea in this context due to the whole ideology behind it. You are not just up against a Potara fusion, you're against someone whose ideals are the polar opposite of those of humans, so you get human vs god, the power of humans vs the power of gods, you get Metamoru vs Potara. Why wouldn't this be cool?

If this isn't a nice idea, then Trunks defeating Zamasu should be an issue as much as all of you try to make Gogeta be one. Because I see human vs god there as well.

[mfwlegend3]

*snip*

I don't think they would go that deep with it.

Goku and Vegeta have only experienced the potara fusion, they know what that power is like. Like in the anime, I'm pretty sure the second one of them suggests fusion, the potara will be the first thing on their minds, and not the fusion dance. With the dance, there's always that possibility of one of them fucking up on their fingers which makes Veku. They would rather get it over with precisely by using the potara. No mess ups -- Just Vegetto stepping in to get the job done.

The ONLY reason I see them using Gogeta would be if, somehow, the two set of potara given to them by Shin AND Gowasu is destroyed by Merged Zamasu. So they have no other choice but to do the dance.

[Noah]

Not when anime and manga are Toriyama's plot....Here, concerning the anime.....

[spoiler]Toriyama: "Next up in Dragon Ball Super, adult Trunks will be putting in his first appearance in a long time! I put together this story based on a suggestion from the editorial office. Like last time, I write an outline of the ENTIRE plot, then the script writers break it up into episodes, expanding on things, changing things around, or adding in new bits as need be.

http://www.designntrend.com/articles/75 ... k-goku.htm

Now for the manga.....

"What’s your process working with Toriyama-sensei?!

Toyotaro: I draw a rough draft based on Toriyama-sensei‘s original story, then I send it to my editor, who gets sensei to check it. It’s an honor to be able to give concrete form to sensei‘s ideas, but sometimes sensei will send over a part he drew himself, which sends me into an uproar, going back and forth between being all hyped up and feeling really down in the dumps."

Also....Look how Toriyama is responsible for things being different in anime and manga....

"What will happen in the rest of the “Future Trunks arc” and afterwards?!
The rest of the “Future Trunks arc” will take a slightly different approach with how things play out, compared to the TV anime. And after that…? “That promise” everyone is waiting for will be fulfilled! But you know Toriyama-sensei! Things won’t go as you expect! Look forward to it!!"

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... r-anatomy/[/spoiler]

We have no idea what actually the anime changes from his outlines and Toyotaro said that Toriyama is more particular about the gags than the story, he has the final word about what is included in the manga, unlike the anime, the main product.

Fundamentally, I don't deviate from the major plotlines that Toriyama's laid down.

We know that Toyotaro supervises the manga and changes whatever he doesn't like. We also know that not only Toriyama doesn't supervise the anime, but he had been dissatisfied with it, to the point he was hesitant to continue his involvement with it.

Even with Toriyama acknowledging that these stories are not present in the original work, but may have happened it doesn't change the fact that there's no official canon in the franchise and the original 42 volumes remain untouchable.

[Cipher]

Goku: "How can we fight him like that? Vegeta, we're going to have to fuse!"

Kaioshin: *Starts removing earrings*

Goku: "Stand back, Kaioshin! We're going to need room to perform the dance!"