Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Cabba]

The building thing isn't that crazy when you remember that Goku once had to go Super Saiyan to be able to carry 40 tons.

thats a good point but idk, i feel like he was so strong by that point as SS2 he was stronger than Kid Buu which should be sufficient power to lift a building

It doesn't make sense for Base Gohan and Goku to be at the same level they were at during the Buu saga.
Basil was strong enough to kick around Buu and survive having his head bashed in. Lavender is probably at least as strong and Bergamo would be even stronger and Base Gohan and Goku were handling them just fine.
The preview shows Base Goku even fighting against Buu, possibly a stronger Buu. He might transform but then he might not.
Super Saiyan Goku was weaker than Good Buu in the Buu saga but he was stronger in the Zen Exhibition Tournament.

Exactly i dont know how people can keep claiming: "its been retconned guys they ara as strong as Majin arc no more!"
The one who fought Majin Buu was the weakest, Bergamo without his gimmick was at least as strong as Basil post Drugs which puts him above SS2 and Goku handled him just fine in power and speed which is crucial in determining ones power tier. Which puts base goku on the SS2 tier

Krillin performance was mostly spectacle over substance to make a point of his usefulness, he is Ginyu force tier at best. In that sense the episode was just filler
Reminds me how Goku SS3 one punch KO Trunks yet Vegeta SSB which is on another level completely gave him quite a beating without trunks losing consciousness. I guess its a bit of spectacle for show

What do people make of Android 18's comment in both the Resurrection F movie and saga where she says
"I'll come too. My battle power is much higher than you guys."
Wouldn't that imply she was more powerful than Base Gohan but even Piccolo as well? She definitely shouldn't be stronger than Piccolo but some things do seem as though as he was nerfed.

I never thought much of this, i thought it was pretty clear. Krillin was coming with Roshi which 18 was aware off. She most likely meant she is more powerful than Krillin and Roshi which is true

[Cabba]

Boo was holding back. He was showing more & more power as the fight went on, and Basil was never a real threat to him.

Buu was being quite serious against Basil post drugs. Bergamo is a good bit stronger than Basil even accounting for the drugs or if you want to compromise just as strong

Shisami and Tagoma aren't the problem here. If Freeza was able to improve so much then why not them? The real problem is characters like Trunks, Gohan and Piccolo. If they could really attain God-tier strength or even SS3 tier just by training a bit, then why didn't they do so in the Cell arc or the Buu arc?

You need special training for God tier and as for SS3 on lower SS forms and even base: I always believed increased non God powers was a byproduct of learning to control your ki better/more efficiently and the excruciating Whys training they went through made them stronger. Remember that chat whys was having with beerus in which whys confirms he intentionally brought Vegeta first so that he could reach Gokus level first this was before SSB.

Not to mention that now that they are stronger they can amp their training a good bit. Weight, gravity, sparring intensity etc

[pacz360]

Boo was holding back. He was showing more & more power as the fight went on, and Basil was never a real threat to him.

Buu was being quite serious against Basil post drugs. Bergamo is a good bit stronger than Basil even accounting for the drugs or if you want to compromise just as strong

Shisami and Tagoma aren't the problem here. If Freeza was able to improve so much then why not them? The real problem is characters like Trunks, Gohan and Piccolo. If they could really attain God-tier strength or even SS3 tier just by training a bit, then why didn't they do so in the Cell arc or the Buu arc?

You need special training for God tier and as for SS3 on lower SS forms and even base: I always believed increased non God powers was a byproduct of learning to control your ki better/more efficiently and the excruciating Whys training they went through made them stronger. Remember that chat whys was having with beerus in which whys confirms he intentionally brought Vegeta first so that he could reach Gokus level first this was before SSB.

Not to mention that now that they are stronger they can amp their training a good bit. Weight, gravity, sparring intensity etc

Given how bergamo was treated as the strongest in his universe is say he's a lot stronger than them. I'd say,( if you don't wanna buy base god level,)ssj3 tier

[Cabba]

Given how bergamo was treated as the strongest in his universe is say he's a lot stronger than them. I'd say,( if you don't wanna buy base god level,)ssj3 tier

Yeah i believe so too. But to play it safe i say SS2 at the least which creates a precedent for Base Goku being at least SS2 tier which is much stronger than in the Majin Arc

[Noah]

I will pray to the heavens for Goku at least use SSJ2 against Slim Boo in the next episode

[Cabba]

I will pray to the heavens for Goku at least use SSJ2 against Slim Boo in the next episode

why is that?

[pacz360]

I will pray to the heavens for Goku at least use SSJ2 against Slim Boo in the next episode

Why would he? Unless buu get stronger from his training.

[Noah]

Because I don't believe in that Base = SSJ God or Base = a little stronger than Boo arc bullsh** either, I think Goku got vastly stronger in Base than he was BoG after all he had trained

So in my current view:

Current Base Goku > 100% FP Namek Freeza
Current SSJ Goku > SSJ2 Goku (Boo arc)
Current SSJ2 Goku > SSJ3 Goku (Boo arc)
Current SSJ3 Goku > Super Boo

and Mr. Boo > SSJ2-tier (Boo arc), but his Slim form might be around stronger or in pair with the SSJ3 Goku he fought back then, so current SSJ2 Goku would take this.

But yea I doubt Super would do something like that, probably Base Goku landing a few hits, then turns Blue, then Goku is impressed that Boo is still keeping with him, then Kaioken Blue, the end. Something atrocious like that, probably.

[Simere]

Because I don't believe in that Base = SSJ God or Base = a little stronger than Boo arc bullsh** either, I think Goku got vastly stronger in Base than he was BoG after all he had trained

So in my current view:

Current Base Goku > 100% FP Namek Freeza
Current SSJ Goku > SSJ2 Goku (Boo arc)
Current SSJ2 Goku > SSJ3 Goku (Boo arc)
Current SSJ3 Goku > Super Boo

What's your explanation for RoF base Goku able to fight RoF Freeza?

[Cabba]

Because I don't believe in that Base = SSJ God or Base = a little stronger than Boo arc bullsh** either, I think Goku got vastly stronger in Base than he was BoG after all he had trained

I dont understand your view, you think base Goku got stronger or not?
In DBS we have base goku anywhere from SSG to Vegeto tier in strength. Currently he seems to be sitting in between SS2 and SS3 in base form
As far as SS2 goes. The manga already made it clear Goku and Vegeta are above vegeto tier as SS2
In the anime, we have Goku SS2 out-power a Black which Trunks claimed he was helpless against

I dont understand this sentiment some people have that only SSB is stronger and all the other forms remained unchanged as if they cant improve any further.

[Noah]

What's your explanation for RoF base Goku able to fight RoF Freeza?

They wanted to be similar with the movie story, but then they needed SSJ to return for both Goku and Vegeta in the next arc (marketing), contradicting what Toriyama had stated that the Saiyans would not need common SSJ transformations anymore. So basically: retcon

You might not like this and you may still want to believe that Base = God, but it is quite impossible taking into account the latest episodes. I think I may buy that old Two-Base theory stuff

I dont understand your view, you think base Goku got stronger or not?
In DBS we have base goku anywhere from SSG to Vegeto tier in strength. Currently he seems to be sitting in between SS2 and SS3 in base form
As far as SS2 goes. The manga already made it clear Goku and Vegeta are above vegeto tier as SS2
In the anime, we have Goku SS2 out-power a Black which Trunks claimed he was helpless against

I dont understand this sentiment some people have that only SSB is stronger and all the other forms remained unchanged as if they cant improve any further.

Like I said to Simere it looks like Goku and Vegeta power levels have been retconned in the show after RoF and sorry but where the manga implies that SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta > Vegetto? Cause I don't remember such thing.

I think all the forms have been improved as I said before, I just don't believe: SSJ/2/3 > SSJ God.

[pacz360]

Because I don't believe in that Base = SSJ God or Base = a little stronger than Boo arc bullsh** either, I think Goku got vastly stronger in Base than he was BoG after all he had trained

So in my current view:

Current Base Goku > 100% FP Namek Freeza
Current SSJ Goku > SSJ2 Goku (Boo arc)
Current SSJ2 Goku > SSJ3 Goku (Boo arc)
Current SSJ3 Goku > Super Boo

and Mr. Boo > SSJ2-tier (Boo arc), but his Slim form might be around stronger or in pair with the SSJ3 Goku he fought back then, so current SSJ2 Goku would take this.

But yea I doubt Super would do something like that, probably Base Goku landing a few hits, then turns Blue, then Goku is impressed that Boo is still keeping with him, then Kaioken Blue, the end. Something atrocious like that, probably.

No base goku is way stronger namek saga freeza and no way make sense considering he fought final form freeza who was superior to his first form who was making mince meat outta ssj gohan who should be at perfect cell level at that time.
And theres no rectons unless stated and these recent episodes doesn't even prove that at all
And you got base vegeta stomping ssj3 gotenks and goku matched him in base.

[Noah]

And theres no rectons unless stated and these recent episodes doesn't even prove that at all

Really? So Base Goku needing a heavy suit to fight restrained with Krillin to later needing to use SSJ, SSJB in a brief sparring match was all right?

Gohan who the series implied several times got weaker and lost his 'Ultimate' form had a sparring match with SSJ Goku in Episode 75, the same Goku that many assume would stomp SSJ3 Gotenks in Base like Copy-Vegeta did it. So in the end you can make sense that SSJ Gohan was God-tier to be keeping with SSJ Goku, even though still not 'Ultimate'?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Buu was being quite serious against Basil post drugs. Bergamo is a good bit stronger than Basil even accounting for the drugs or if you want to compromise just as strong

What puts Basil with drugs below Lavenda & Bergamo (pre-Goku's power)?

[buutenks]

I guess next ep will answer the question of where the base saiyans are at power wise.

[emperior]

I guess next ep will answer the question of where the base saiyans are at power wise.

I will honestly be surprised if it does, what will probably happen is that Goku and Buu spar a bit, then Goku tells Buu to get serious and proceeds to transform into a SSJ, and they continue to spar with Goku commenting how strong Buu is. Maybe Goku will also go SSJ3 in the end for some nostalgia and then he will remember he has to go to Dende's so he will stop the battle.

As for 17, if Goku spars with him he will comment how strong 17 is compared to his sister (implying he trained, if 17 doesn't outright state it) and transform into a SSJ so Goku's base power will still be a mystery.

[TheMikado]

I guess next ep will answer the question of where the base saiyans are at power wise.

I will honestly be surprised if it does, what will probably happen is that Goku and Buu spar a bit, then Goku tells Buu to get serious and proceeds to transform into a SSJ, and they continue to spar with Goku commenting how strong Buu is. Maybe Goku will also go SSJ3 in the end for some nostalgia and then he will remember he has to go to Dende's so he will stop the battle.

As for 17, if Goku spars with him he will comment how strong 17 is compared to his sister (implying he trained, if 17 doesn't outright state it) and transform into a SSJ so Goku's base power will still be a mystery.

I'm looking forward to this episode. The mental gymnastics will be amazing.

[ZombieVito]

I guess next ep will answer the question of where the base saiyans are at power wise.

I will honestly be surprised if it does, what will probably happen is that Goku and Buu spar a bit, then Goku tells Buu to get serious and proceeds to transform into a SSJ, and they continue to spar with Goku commenting how strong Buu is. Maybe Goku will also go SSJ3 in the end for some nostalgia and then he will remember he has to go to Dende's so he will stop the battle.

As for 17, if Goku spars with him he will comment how strong 17 is compared to his sister (implying he trained, if 17 doesn't outright state it) and transform into a SSJ so Goku's base power will still be a mystery.

But that would confirm they are not that many times stronger than their Boo arc self's.

With the info we have right now they are close to Boo in base. Hopefully Goku does use Super Saiyan.

[emperior]

I guess next ep will answer the question of where the base saiyans are at power wise.

I will honestly be surprised if it does, what will probably happen is that Goku and Buu spar a bit, then Goku tells Buu to get serious and proceeds to transform into a SSJ, and they continue to spar with Goku commenting how strong Buu is. Maybe Goku will also go SSJ3 in the end for some nostalgia and then he will remember he has to go to Dende's so he will stop the battle.

As for 17, if Goku spars with him he will comment how strong 17 is compared to his sister (implying he trained, if 17 doesn't outright state it) and transform into a SSJ so Goku's base power will still be a mystery.

But that would confirm they are not that many times stronger than their Boo arc self's.

With the info we have right now they are close to Boo in base. Hopefully Goku does use Super Saiyan.

Nope, it would confirm nothing if Goku stated Buu has gotten stronger.

[Doctor.]

Nope, it would confirm nothing if Goku stated Buu has gotten stronger.

That makes no sense. If Boo, who was Boo arc SS2-SS3 level, got stronger and Goku is able to handle him fine in Super Saiyan, then that obviously means that both of them got stronger; Goku would be much stronger than his Boo arc self.