The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ZombieVito]

How exactly is that strength related?

No one noted the power up. This has never happened before.

I see this situation exactly the same as Freeza vs Vegeta (last Zenkai) and Tenshihan vs Goku at the 23rd TB. Freeza and Tenshinhan just increased their speed to have an advantage. No where is it stated they increased their strength.

[RandomGuy96]

How exactly is that strength related?

No one noted the power up. This has never happened before.

I see this situation exactly the same as Freeza vs Vegeta (last Zenkai) and Tenshihan vs Goku at the 23rd TB. The Freeza and Tenshinhan just increased their speed to have an advantage. No where is it stated they increased their strength.

Speed and strength go hand in hand. Cell increased his speed to its limits, and was thus more "powerful". While he was now way faster than Gohan, he couldn't damage him. Cell increasing his speed is crucial, as it now shows he's using way more power than he was against Goku, because the level that could dominate Goku just wasn't cutting it against Gohan.

[ZombieVito]

How exactly is that strength related?

No one noted the power up. This has never happened before.

I see this situation exactly the same as Freeza vs Vegeta (last Zenkai) and Tenshihan vs Goku at the 23rd TB. The Freeza and Tenshinhan just increased their speed to have an advantage. No where is it stated they increased their strength.

Speed and strength go hand in hand. Cell increased his speed to its limits, and was thus more "powerful". While he was now way faster than Gohan, he couldn't damage him. Cell increasing his speed is crucial, as it now shows he's using way more power than he was against Goku, because the level that could dominate Goku just wasn't cutting it against Gohan.

When was this confirmed? This doesn't make sense at all, Cell specifically said he would increase his speed not power. No one noted a power up and I just gave two examples were two fighters only increased their speed.

[KentalSSJ6]

What if Vegeta went SSJ2 when SP Cell killed Trunks? Think he'd win?

[SSJ God Gogeta]

What if Vegeta went SSJ2 when SP Cell killed Trunks? Think he'd win?

Good chance of it especially if he uses his final flash.

[Kamiccolo9]

What if Vegeta went SSJ2 when SP Cell killed Trunks? Think he'd win?

Nah, I think Cell was at least as strong as SSJ2 Gohan when he came back (he came back eager to fight him, after all). Vegeta was weaker than Gohan in general, so his SSJ2 would be weaker than Gohan's as well. He wouldn't stand a chance.

[KentalSSJ6]

What if Vegeta went SSJ2 when SP Cell killed Trunks? Think he'd win?

Good chance of it especially if he uses his final flash.

You think Cell would allow him to do that especially after it sheared nearly a third of him off the first time? Yes Cell is SSJ2 level or above here but Vegeta would be much stronger as well.

Maybe if he beam clashes Cel''s Solar Kamehameha with it but if you mean Cell would let him charge it up without the intention to beam clash, I doubt he'd give Vegeta the time.

[RandomGuy96]

How exactly is that strength related?

No one noted the power up. This has never happened before.

I see this situation exactly the same as Freeza vs Vegeta (last Zenkai) and Tenshihan vs Goku at the 23rd TB. The Freeza and Tenshinhan just increased their speed to have an advantage. No where is it stated they increased their strength.

Speed and strength go hand in hand. Cell increased his speed to its limits, and was thus more "powerful". While he was now way faster than Gohan, he couldn't damage him. Cell increasing his speed is crucial, as it now shows he's using way more power than he was against Goku, because the level that could dominate Goku just wasn't cutting it against Gohan.

When was this confirmed? This doesn't make sense at all, Cell specifically said he would increase his speed not power. No one noted a power up and I just gave two examples were two fighters only increased their speed.

Let's be clear: I don't think he raised his offensive power at all. That's why he did no damage to Gohan. He only unleashed all of his strength against SS2 Gohan.

HOWEVER, it was confirmed that he was using his real speed. I consider going from one speed level to the other to be a power up; it drastically improved his performance. Cell couldn't touch Gohan without using his real speed. That's one of the main reasons I think SS Gohan curb-stomps SS Goku at the Cell Games. Also, Vegeta outright said that battle power increases with speed.

What if Vegeta went SSJ2 when SP Cell killed Trunks? Think he'd win?

Cell kills Vegeta with one punch. Heck, even regular Perfect Cell annihilates Vegeta effortlessly. SS2 Vegeta would be about as strong as SS Gohan. Actually, even that placement is pretty generous...

[Kaboom]

What if Vegeta went SSJ2 when SP Cell killed Trunks? Think he'd win?

Proooobably not. If Vegeta's a good chunk behind Goku who's likewise a good chunk behind Gohan and Cell, then even Vegeta doubling his own power through SS2 isn't going to do him much good against "Super Perfect" Cell (who's presumably similar to SS2 Gohan in power). I could see him maybe beating full-power Cell, though.

[SSJ God Gogeta]

What if Vegeta went SSJ2 when SP Cell killed Trunks? Think he'd win?

Good chance of it especially if he uses his final flash.

You think Cell would allow him to do that especially after it sheared nearly a third of him off the first time? Yes Cell is SSJ2 level or above here but Vegeta would be much stronger as well.

Maybe if he beam clashes Cel''s Solar Kamehameha with it but if you mean Cell would let him charge it up without the intention to beam clash, I doubt he'd give Vegeta the time.

Yeah I was talking about a beam struggle type of deal just like Cell did with Gohan. But yeah cell would never let Vegeta charge up his attack like that again.
I would say they are about even.

[KentalSSJ6]

Mirai Gohanks (Gohan, Trunks) VS 17 and 18.

[RandomGuy96]

Mirai Gohanks (Gohan, Trunks) VS 17 and 18.

Fusion was strong enough to take Goten and Trunks from around CG SS Goku or Vegeta individually as Super Saiyans to stronger than Fat Buu (who himself could crush SS2 Goku, SS2 Vegeta, and SS2 Gohan at the same time) as Super Saiyan Gotenks.

Gohanks would annihilate the androids with one blow each, and then do the same thing to future Cell.

[Cursed Lemon]

(who's presumably similar to SS2 Gohan in power)

"Similar" to a one-armed Gohan whose power got cut in half.

To turn this debate on its head, *I* am actually of the opinion that SSJ2 Gohan is still WAAAAY stronger than SPC when healthy.

[RandomGuy96]

(who's presumably similar to SS2 Gohan in power)

"Similar" to a one-armed Gohan whose power got cut in half.

To turn this debate on its head, *I* am actually of the opinion that SSJ2 Gohan is still WAAAAY stronger than SPC when healthy.

They weren't "similar". Cell casually and quickly overpowered Gohan's pathetic effort without trying, after heavily wounding a healthy and full power SS2 Gohan with one ki blast.

[Cursed Lemon]

Whoa, it's almost like people can be damaged when they're in vulnerable positions.

Like...

...

Who's that one guy...

...

...Oh yeah, Cell.

[RandomGuy96]

Whoa, it's almost like people can be damaged when they're in vulnerable positions.

Like...

...

Who's that one guy...

...

...Oh yeah, Cell.

You mean the Cell who got hit by a Super Kamehameha from an enraged SS2 Gohan?

Also, Gohan admits that Cell got a lot stronger than he thought after getting wounded, so it's not like it was solely a matter of his vulnerable position.

[Cursed Lemon]

...Why do I feel like we are NEVER talking about the same thing simultaneously.

[RandomGuy96]

...Why do I feel like we are NEVER talking about the same thing simultaneously.

Which occasion are you talking about?

[ZombieVito]

Let's be clear: I don't think he raised his offensive power at all. That's why he did no damage to Gohan. He only unleashed all of his strength against SS2 Gohan.

HOWEVER, it was confirmed that he was using his real speed. I consider going from one speed level to the other to be a power up; it drastically improved his performance. Cell couldn't touch Gohan without using his real speed. That's one of the main reasons I think SS Gohan curb-stomps SS Goku at the Cell Games. Also, Vegeta outright said that battle power increases with speed.

Oh shit. Then we are good.

I still think Cell was still stronger than Gohan though but the difference is minimal.

Cell: 380
SSJ Gohan: 360
SSJ Goku: 300

Why you might ask, well no one states that Gohan surpassed Cell. Not to mention the fact that Goku was counting on Gohan's rage for him to win.

To answer the other fight: I have SSJ2 Vegeta a little bit less than Super Perfect Cell's power. He gets killed in a second.

[RandomGuy96]

Let's be clear: I don't think he raised his offensive power at all. That's why he did no damage to Gohan. He only unleashed all of his strength against SS2 Gohan.

HOWEVER, it was confirmed that he was using his real speed. I consider going from one speed level to the other to be a power up; it drastically improved his performance. Cell couldn't touch Gohan without using his real speed. That's one of the main reasons I think SS Gohan curb-stomps SS Goku at the Cell Games. Also, Vegeta outright said that battle power increases with speed.

Oh shit. Then we are good.

I still think Cell was still stronger than Gohan though but the difference is minimal.

Cell: 380
SSJ Gohan: 360
SSJ Goku: 300

Why you might ask, well no one states that Gohan surpassed Cell. Not to mention the fact that Goku was counting on Gohan's rage for him to win.

To answer the other fight: I have SSJ2 Vegeta a little bit less than Super Perfect Cell's power. He gets killed in a second.

Goku never said he was counting on Gohan's rage. Gohan thought he was, but he was still trying to comprehend the fact that he was stronger than his father. In fact, by asking Gohan how he perceived the fight in SS form, and assessing Cell's power by fighting him and concluding from that that Gohan can win, Goku implied that he just wanted Gohan to win in SS. It's much more plausible, and fits better in context, to assume that rather than think he was relying on a completely unpredictable power up he hadn't seen in years.

Also, Piccolo stated that Gohan's power was #1, and feats plainly show Gohan being far superior to suppressed Cell. He effortlessly dodged all of Cell's attacks, frustrating Cell, and took his hits without his ki dropping even a little. An indirect implication like "well no one explicitly said Gohan > Cell" shouldn't override that...