"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[kinisking]

I think the reason fans are upset with the potara change is because it makes fusing too easy. I think what we have now is better than "bad air" but there needs to be more to it.

One way to handle this problem is to have the 2 people be required to wait a certain amount of time (like a year) before being able to do so again. Or have the earrings be unusable again after the 2 defuse and make it very hard to come up with new ones.

It doesn't make fusing easy at all. It was already proven useless against Merged Zamasu.

The earrings becoming useless after the first fusion is a great idea though. That's honestly what should have happened.

[Lord Beerus]

Whether it’s a retcon or not, this new one hour time limit stuff is a more clear, better, and much less confusing explanation compared to the previous established one, so I prefer this one.

I agree. The time limit does make the Vegetto's initial de-fusion seem far less contrived and understandable within lore. But the Potara earings really should have never been established as a "permanent" fusion to begin with. That opened an almighty can of worms.

[nato25]

I think the reason fans are upset with the potara change is because it makes fusing too easy. I think what we have now is better than "bad air" but there needs to be more to it.

One way to handle this problem is to have the 2 people be required to wait a certain amount of time (like a year) before being able to do so again. Or have the earrings be unusable again after the 2 defuse and make it very hard to come up with new ones.

Yeah that's one way to do it. They sort of have the defiance of Goku and Vegeta to fuse which goes a decent way in making it not be used too often but it still means if a serious threat comes along that reasoning still get's ignored just as it did here.

[ryan s]

if that line is true

Beerus and Vegetto must be really close to each other in terms of power, really with that line they have dug themselves into a hole as Goku could never surpass his fusion counter part and the multiplier goes far beyond kaioken

[nato25]

For the record, here is what the guidebooks state about the special characteristics of the Potara earrings:

Daizenshuu 4, pg 163, entry for Potara Earrings.

Thanks for that Lord Beerus. I don't really have too much issue when things with the guidebooks are proven wrong as they are still supplemental material, but I really don't understand those people that say "It's not a retcon, we are finally getting an explanation to why they unfused" and worse still, people that say nothing is lost because of the retcon.

The Potara fusion being permanent for everyone is an enormous drawback, so much so that great care has to be taken when using them and them being a final resort. Yes you could just wish yourself unfused but collecting and using the Dragon Balls still have some sort of consequence and at the time of the Buu Saga, there was more important wishes that needed to be made anyway.

With these rule changes, to me, the Buu Saga is cheapened, Supreme Kai is made to look incompetent (although honestly I think he has proven many times that he is) and on a lesser scale so are Kibito and Elder Kai and the Potara lose anything that made them special or different from the fusion dance. I really don't like the change.

To be fair, it should have never been established that the Potara were permanent to begin with. You're pretty much asking for that plot device to be retconned out when apply such an extreme rule. They should have just said that the Potara earrings were a more powerful fusion equivalent compared to the Fusion Dance and just leave it at that.

But I find that drawback really interesting and unique. The games have done some fun stuff with it like what happens to Vegito in his family life and I think it would have been fun if the series did a couple episodes of that after the trunks arc during the slice of life stuff. Maybe they were just waiting a couple months until the Dragon Balls could be used again but I digress. I liked the permanent drawback and wasn't happy they changed that.

The Trunks arc as a whole really rubbed me the wrong way in some aspects. I think they really messed up fusion as a whole in regards to the rules, the earrings and Vegito's outfit being the same as in Buu Saga despite the different attire. Then you have Trunks two massive out of nowhere moments and then all the Mufaba stuff that was ultimately for nothing. To be fair and to bring this discussion back on point, I feel the manga has handled at least those last two complaints much better while perhaps making the potara thing a bit worse because now merged zamasu can defuse as well bringing up the question, what the hell makes someone a kai then.

[jeffbr92]

I don't know, I still would prefer the Potara to keep as permanent fusion not because I don't like the retcon, but because the explanation is kinda messy

[batistabus]

Wow...this thread has become insufferable to read through.

1. We don't have the whole chapter.
2. We don't have the whole chapter translated.
3. The fight against Zamasu IS NOT OVER. Just because they think Zamasu will defuse, it doesn't mean that he will. He very well might, but before making judgement and getting upset about things that are STATED but not yet SHOWN, have patience.
4. Why do people expect that the manga will be drastically different from the anime? If you're looking at everything you dislike about the anime and hoping it changes in the manga, you're going to have a bad time.
5. For people complaining about the art, that's fine, but keep two things in mind: these are low-quality scans, and people who have actually purchased the physical copies have consistently said that the art looks great in print.
6. Retcons are a staple of Dragon Ball. If you can't accept these retcons but ignore ones made in the past, that's nostalgia clouding your judgement. Toriyama has never allowed previously established things to prevent him from moving the story forward; he tweaks them as needed. This is what keeps the story fresh and moving forward.
7. If you're making multiple posts here just to talk about how much you hate this product, especially if you're going to act like a child while doing so, save it. It's okay to chime in and say you don't like the Zamasu arc, the way Toyotaro draws necks, or that you prefer the anime, but please don't force me to read a tantrum.
8. If you truly are a fan of Dragon Ball and Akira Toriyama, you should approach Dragon Ball Super with an open mind. People seem so emotionally invested and angry when things don't turn out the way they'd hoped. Relax and just try to enjoy the ride. AT has brought you joy for many years...the least you can do is to not go into it looking for something to hate. Don't jump into an assumption that a certain aspect is bad, consider the fact that you might not fully appreciate it. I'm not saying you have to like and praise everything, but some of you are unnecessarily ruthless...like you got betrayed by a lover.

At this point, we should really just be trying to piece this together and make sense of it. Do yourself (and everyone else) a favor and wait for the chapter to actually come out before you give up.

[Kanassa]

People are assuming that Vegetto is correct in that Zamasu will defuse in an hour? Or did Gowasu confirm that Zamasu's fusion wouldn't last?

[TheMikado]

No one knows see post above

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Wow...this thread has become insufferable to read through.

1. We don't have the whole chapter.
2. We don't have the whole chapter translated.
3. The fight against Zamasu IS NOT OVER. Just because they think Zamasu will defuse, it doesn't mean that he will. He very well might, but before making judgement and getting upset about things that are STATED but not yet SHOWN, have patience.
4. Why do people expect that the manga will be drastically different from the anime? If you're looking at everything you dislike about the anime and hoping it changes in the manga, you're going to have a bad time.
5. For people complaining about the art, that's fine, but keep two things in mind: these are low-quality scans, and people who have actually purchased the physical copies have consistently said that the art looks great in print.
6. Retcons are a staple of Dragon Ball. If you can't accept these retcons but ignore ones made in the past, that's nostalgia clouding your judgement. Toriyama has never allowed previously established things to prevent him from moving the story forward; he tweaks them as needed. This is what keeps the story fresh and moving forward.
7. If you're making multiple posts here just to talk about how much you hate this product, especially if you're going to act like a child while doing so, save it. It's okay to chime in and say you don't like the Zamasu arc, the way Toyotaro draws necks, or that you prefer the anime, but please don't force me to read a tantrum.

At this point, we should really just be trying to piece this together and make sense of it. Do yourself (and everyone else) a favor and wait for the chapter to actually come out before you give up.

I really like talking about the manga, but it's like this after every single chapter these days. Insufferable the word you used, I think that's a good word. It's insufferable, and I'm honestly ashamed that a thread I used to enjoy so much has become one of the most juvenile, toxic places on the forums.

[dbzfan7]

Wow...this thread has become insufferable to read through.

1. We don't have the whole chapter.
2. We don't have the whole chapter translated.
3. The fight against Zamasu IS NOT OVER. Just because they think Zamasu will defuse, it doesn't mean that he will. He very well might, but before making judgement and getting upset about things that are STATED but not yet SHOWN, have patience.
4. Why do people expect that the manga will be drastically different from the anime? If you're looking at everything you dislike about the anime and hoping it changes in the manga, you're going to have a bad time.
5. For people complaining about the art, that's fine, but keep two things in mind: these are low-quality scans, and people who have actually purchased the physical copies have consistently said that the art looks great in print.
6. Retcons are a staple of Dragon Ball. If you can't accept these retcons but ignore ones made in the past, that's nostalgia clouding your judgement. Toriyama has never allowed previously established things to prevent him from moving the story forward; he tweaks them as needed. This is what keeps the story fresh and moving forward.
7. If you're making multiple posts here just to talk about how much you hate this product, especially if you're going to act like a child while doing so, save it. It's okay to chime in and say you don't like the Zamasu arc, the way Toyotaro draws necks, or that you prefer the anime, but please don't force me to read a tantrum.

At this point, we should really just be trying to piece this together and make sense of it. Do yourself (and everyone else) a favor and wait for the chapter to actually come out before you give up.

I really like talking about the manga, but it's like this after every single chapter these days. Insufferable the word you used, I think that's a good word. It's insufferable, and I'm honestly ashamed that a thread I used to enjoy so much has become one of the most juvenile, toxic places on the forums.

So basically this and the anime threads are pretty much the same XD.

[superfan2024]

I knew it, Vegetto using the his ki sword too. I love it! That wasn't in the anime.

Uh, yes it was :

[Hellspawn28]

But how does Kaioshin of East know the full extent of Beerus' power?

He did saw Beerus fight SSjG Goku.

[Grimlock]

I think it safe to say Toriyama should have just went with Gogeta and spare us this mess.

It was always safe to say though. Is it really just because "hur durr Toei used Gogeta in a movie before me, so I won't add him in my works ever!111!1!1!"? If it really is, then seriously...

He did saw Beerus fight SSjG Goku.

Not his full power.

[jeffbr92]

But how does Kaioshin of East know the full extent of Beerus' power?

Isn't Beerus 75 millions old or that was a dub line? Kaioshin could had seen his full power in one opportunity a long while ago

[KentalSSJ6]

These past pages have made me embarrassed to be a Dragon Ball fan. Is this what we have become? On Kanzenshuu of all places? We aren't a youtube comment section, and we arent a facebook group. Seriously, hold yourself up to some standards here. I'm starting to see what Kaiser was talking about when he said he sometimes wants to leave this site.

[Duo]

Wow...this thread has become insufferable to read through.

I really like talking about the manga, but it's like this after every single chapter these days. Insufferable the word you used, I think that's a good word. It's insufferable, and I'm honestly ashamed that a thread I used to enjoy so much has become one of the most juvenile, toxic places on the forums.

I am 100% with you both. This is about the only thread I have enough current interest in to attempt discussion but it's just garbage every time. Not sure why I keep trying.

Great post Batistabus. Thank you.

[dbzfan7]

These past pages have made me embarrassed to be a Dragon Ball fan. Is this what we have become? On Kanzenshuu of all places? We aren't a youtube comment section, and we arent a facebook group. Seriously, hold yourself up to some standards here. I'm starting to see what Kaiser was talking about when he said he sometimes wants to leave this site.

Just these? The anime thread was literally locked. That's even worse XD.

But come on guys stop being negative man. Stop whining and just enjoy the manga hm? It's really good and you should look at all the good stuff. Or is it that only one is allowed to be criticized, without people jumping right down at ya. And would you look at that. No one is really complaining about power levels here, or barely, and that changed nothing at all when it comes to positive and negative outlooks clashing.

[The gr]

Wow...this thread has become insufferable to read through.

1. We don't have the whole chapter.
2. We don't have the whole chapter translated.
3. The fight against Zamasu IS NOT OVER. Just because they think Zamasu will defuse, it doesn't mean that he will. He very well might, but before making judgement and getting upset about things that are STATED but not yet SHOWN, have patience.
4. Why do people expect that the manga will be drastically different from the anime? If you're looking at everything you dislike about the anime and hoping it changes in the manga, you're going to have a bad time.
5. For people complaining about the art, that's fine, but keep two things in mind: these are low-quality scans, and people who have actually purchased the physical copies have consistently said that the art looks great in print.
6. Retcons are a staple of Dragon Ball. If you can't accept these retcons but ignore ones made in the past, that's nostalgia clouding your judgement. Toriyama has never allowed previously established things to prevent him from moving the story forward; he tweaks them as needed. This is what keeps the story fresh and moving forward.
7. If you're making multiple posts here just to talk about how much you hate this product, especially if you're going to act like a child while doing so, save it. It's okay to chime in and say you don't like the Zamasu arc, the way Toyotaro draws necks, or that you prefer the anime, but please don't force me to read a tantrum.
8. If you truly are a fan of Dragon Ball and Akira Toriyama, you should approach Dragon Ball Super with an open mind. People seem so emotionally invested and angry when things don't turn out the way they'd hoped. Relax and just try to enjoy the ride. AT has brought you joy for many years...the least you can do is to not go into it looking for something to hate. Don't jump into an assumption that a certain aspect is bad, consider the fact that you might not fully appreciate it. I'm not saying you have to like and praise everything, but some of you are unnecessarily ruthless...like you got betrayed by a lover.

At this point, we should really just be trying to piece this together and make sense of it. Do yourself (and everyone else) a favor and wait for the chapter to actually come out before you give up.

great post bastibus,the chapter isn't even out,I always tell everyone, let's wait for the context and then judge but no everyone ignores my advice, and complain, I'm just going to ignore them, like when the vegito leak appear,I just died what some people Said

Sorry but I'm not liking what toyotaro is doing with his art in this chapter and previously, it looks sloppy when you compare it to his awesome illustration, seriously look at Vegeta ssb in u6 and compare it to SSG vegeta, at least he could still pull out cool transformation panels, like what's going on his office,I just hope he gets better anyways rant over

Vegito is still funny in this version,the hand joke was just too cheesy

[HeroR]

A bit bummed by the lack of halo on Merged Zamasu - that part of his design was my favorite in the anime, as it makes him look very godly. I really hope that he will do something cool/memorable before he’ll defuse, because otherwise, he’ll be just as much of a disappointment and forgettable villain as Black. His utterly insane and overly narcissistic persona in the anime is what made him very memorable and distinguishing, and he also have a lot of memorable moments, so he better have some of those characteristic too!

In regards to Vegetto, he seems to be way more powerful than Merged Zamasu that I would imagine just using Super Saiyan God would probably enough to handle him. It feels a bit dumb that he used blue in the fight since it has stamina issues. At the very least, he should have used Vegeta’s red-to-blue strategy in the previous chapter. I was so sure that he’s gonna use it in this chapter that I’m very surprised that he didn’t (but maybe he did in the pages that hasn’t leaked yet, but it’s really doubtful).

Imagine Vegetto using Super Saiyan 3 against Gohan-Boo in the Boo arc - that’s what him using blue against Zamasu feels to me.

I've been wondering why people were mad about this as well. How can you retcon something that was never given an official explanation?

Actually, while the explanation in the original manga was nothing more than an assumption made by Goku, we do have official words from the guidebooks saying that Majin Boo’s bad air in his body was the reason why Vegetto defused.

I think the thing I missed most is how Merged Zamasu started out as this elegant godly villain, to being reduced to a ravaging monster. Here, Merged Zamasu is just a brute like the manga version of Goku Black. It is kind of disappointing. Seriously, can Toyo write a villain?