Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Basako]

I don't see Krilin above androids 19 and 20, who I think were below last form Freezer.

Tenshinhan, below Krilin but not by far.

Roshi, I'm gonna assume he has trained before and after RoF and that he can fight Raditz decently, being generous.

Piccolo, above SS2. This guy doesn't stop training.

Boo, a little stronger than before, maybe at SS3 level. By the way, I bet he won't have the fit body in the tournament. That's not our Boo, guys. It was just for curiosity sake, filler material.

Android 18, as far as I know, she hasn't made any progress.

17, they'll be showing soon, I wouldn't give him more than SS2, but this is DB, so let's put him somewhere between SS2 and SS3. In god level, no way.

I think the complaints about episode 84 are legit. Goku in blue to spar with Krilin was too much. If they had put him in regular SS, it would have been much better. But, as they pointed, if Beerus could hold back slapping Bulma, SSB Goku can hold back his Kamehameha too. It wasn't a major problem for me, just something that could have been better.

[TheMikado]

We could agree that current Krillin could defeat Cell and Dabura mid-difficulty at least.

18 also got stronger while training with Krillin offscreen(IIRC Krillin said 18 is still stronger than her), Tori already mentioned the Androids could get stronger.

Nah, krillin is still below Namek frieza, but strong as 60,000,000, and #18 , I say she is still in the Same level as #17 during his fight with​ piccolo.

Yikes are we really saying Krillin is Cell/Dabura levels? I mean its cool if it were true, and I'm willing to put him at final form Frieza levels. My questions is why is everyone's interpretation of where he should fall power wise SO different?
We literally just watched him spar and we have no idea where he sits power wise.

Krillin should be weaker than Base Goku at the start of the series who was below Namek Frieza.

At best I could see characters like him and Tien being at Suppressed Frieza levels. The millions sure, maybe even the tens of millions. Going by just Toei they had Tien close to Base Future Trunks.

I mean I think you have a case for that, and they were definitely in the base saiyan range for that, but I would be willing to give him final form Frieza levels just so the rest of Super's power levels don't look so preposterous. I can give Krillin and tien the benefit of the doubt for the sake of things being a little bit more sane.

[TheMikado]

I don't see Krilin above androids 19 and 20, who I think were below last form Freezer.

Tenshinhan, below Krilin but not by far.

Roshi, I'm gonna assume he has trained before and after RoF and that he can fight Raditz decently, being generous.

Piccolo, above SS2. This guy doesn't stop training.

Boo, a little stronger than before, maybe at SS3 level. By the way, I bet he won't have the fit body in the tournament. That's not our Boo, guys. It was just for curiosity sake, filler material.

Android 18, as far as I know, she hasn't made any progress.

17, they'll be showing soon, I wouldn't give him more than SS2, but this is DB, so let's put him somewhere between SS2 and SS3. In god level, no way.

I think the complaints about episode 84 are legit. Goku in blue to spar with Krilin was too much. If they had put him in regular SS, it would have been much better. But, as they pointed, if Beerus could hold back slapping Bulma, SSB Goku can hold back his Kamehameha too. It wasn't a major problem for me, just something that could have been better.

My problem isn't the spar itself, my problem is it seems like a clear setup and foreshadow to Krillin taking out or doing ok against someone he shouldn't stand a chance against at SSB level. It also sets the stage for the SSB vs 17 where logically if krillin can perform that well, 17 should do much better against SSB, and the trend and inflation will just continue from there. If this were the end of it, I could just say ok whatever. But its the beginning of things really getting funky and its setting things up in a way that will really leave us scratching our heads for the tournament.

[The gr]

We could agree that current Krillin could defeat Cell and Dabura mid-difficulty at least.

18 also got stronger while training with Krillin offscreen(IIRC Krillin said 18 is still stronger than her), Tori already mentioned the Androids could get stronger.

Nah, krillin is still below Namek frieza, but strong as 60,000,000, and #18 , I say she is still in the Same level as #17 during his fight with​ piccolo.

Yikes are we really saying Krillin is Cell/Dabura levels? I mean its cool if it were true, and I'm willing to put him at final form Frieza levels. My questions is why is everyone's interpretation of where he should fall power wise SO different?
We literally just watched him spar and we have no idea where he sits power wise.

True point, but the fact he needs to rely on his tayoken to base gohan, that put him below Namek frieza,IMO, and base gohan≥krillin but it makes sense if you put him at 100% frieza tier,I won't highball krillin being dabura tier or the ss2 tier

A question out there to all the peeps, what tier is piccolo in DBS

[TheMikado]

Nah, krillin is still below Namek frieza, but strong as 60,000,000, and #18 , I say she is still in the Same level as #17 during his fight with​ piccolo.

Yikes are we really saying Krillin is Cell/Dabura levels? I mean its cool if it were true, and I'm willing to put him at final form Frieza levels. My questions is why is everyone's interpretation of where he should fall power wise SO different?
We literally just watched him spar and we have no idea where he sits power wise.

True point, but the fact he needs to rely on his tayoken to base gohan, that put him below Namek frieza,IMO, and base gohan≥krillin but it makes sense if you put him at 100% frieza tier,I won't highball krillin being dabura tier or close to the ss2 tier

Hmm so I thought about this. I would put the saiyans around 8 million and krillin just below or around this.

If we assume they have a normal base (or were supposed to during the Champa arc)

They are above Frieza's second and possibly third form in base. They are well below the final form in base and would need to go SSJ.
- Assuming Frost and Frieza's power is equivalent. Goku and Vegeta to could take all the forms except Final Frost in base, but would need to go SSJ.
Piccolo could fit in there somewhere but no idea how he could be stronger than android 17 and weaker than Final Frieza, so I get that doesn't work either.
Nevermind I give up.

[Bullza]

A question out there to all the peeps, what tier is piccolo in DBS

Above Base Goku, Vegeta and Cabba in the Universe 6 saga.

Significantly below Super Saiyan Goku, Vegeta and Cabba and also below Fat Buu in the Universe 6 saga.

[The gr]

Yikes are we really saying Krillin is Cell/Dabura levels? I mean its cool if it were true, and I'm willing to put him at final form Frieza levels. My questions is why is everyone's interpretation of where he should fall power wise SO different?
We literally just watched him spar and we have no idea where he sits power wise.

True point, but the fact he needs to rely on his tayoken to base gohan, that put him below Namek frieza,IMO, and base gohan≥krillin but it makes sense if you put him at 100% frieza tier,I won't highball krillin being dabura tier or close to the ss2 tier

Hmm so I thought about this. I would put the saiyans around 8 million and krillin just below or around this.

If we assume they have a normal base (or were supposed to during the Champa arc)

They are above Frieza's second and possibly third form in base. They are well below the final form in base and would need to go SSJ.
- Assuming Frost and Frieza's power is equivalent. Goku and Vegeta to could take all the forms except Final Frost in base, but would need to go SSJ.
Piccolo could fit in there somewhere but no idea how he could be stronger than android 17 and weaker than Final Frieza, so I get that doesn't work either.
Nevermind I give up.

Give up there's no point in scaling this mess,DBZ may have some odd scaling, but at least is easier to scale and understandble

A question out there to all the peeps, what tier is piccolo in DBS

Above Base Goku, Vegeta and Cabba in the Universe 6 saga.

Significantly below Super Saiyan Goku, Vegeta and Cabba and also below Fat Buu in the Universe 6 saga.

But isn't piccolo ultimate tier according to Seth, Because tagoma is stated to be ultimate tier, and piccolo pushed Base Gohan,the same Gohan who pushed tagoma with a ki blast, stop spreading misinformation I'm being sarcastic

what are your number for the base Saiyan/ss1 in u6, Because I don't see the gap between piccolo and Frost to not be huge, since piccolo outspeed him for a while,

[Basako]

I think the complaints about episode 84 are legit. Goku in blue to spar with Krilin was too much. If they had put him in regular SS, it would have been much better. But, as they pointed, if Beerus could hold back slapping Bulma, SSB Goku can hold back his Kamehameha too. It wasn't a major problem for me, just something that could have been better.

My problem isn't the spar itself, my problem is it seems like a clear setup and foreshadow to Krillin taking out or doing ok against someone he shouldn't stand a chance against at SSB level. It also sets the stage for the SSB vs 17 where logically if krillin can perform that well, 17 should do much better against SSB, and the trend and inflation will just continue from there. If this were the end of it, I could just say ok whatever. But its the beginning of things really getting funky and its setting things up in a way that will really leave us scratching our heads for the tournament.

I'm a bit concerned about next episode too, but I prefer to wait until it airs before making conclusions. They shouldn't forget there is a huge gap even between SS3 and SSG. That was established in the first arc, nobody should get that high without a proper justification, Freezer's power up was a very hard pill to swallow for me.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I think the show's been doing an okay job of showing that Goku and Vegeta are at god level only when they're using their god form, SSB. The events of BoG are really an outlier in that respect, as the narrative seems to be supporting the idea that SSG's realm of strength is still something special to a limited degree.

The only real examples of characters noted to surpass that level either directly or by proxy that aren't Gods of Destruction or Angels are SSB Goku/Vegeta/Copy-Vegeta, Golden Freeza, Hit, SSR Black, SSI Future Trunks, Toppo, and Jiren.

[TheMikado]

I think the show's been doing an okay job of showing that Goku and Vegeta are at god level only when they're using their god form, SSB. The events of BoG are really an outlier in that respect, as the narrative seems to be supporting the idea that SSG's realm of strength is still something special to a limited degree.

The only real examples of characters noted to surpass that level either directly or by proxy that aren't Gods of Destruction or Angels are SSB Goku/Vegeta/Copy-Vegeta, Golden Freeza, Hit, SSR Black, SSI Future Trunks, Toppo, and Jiren.

The problem is that list keeps growing.

[omaro34]

A question out there to all the peeps, what tier is piccolo in DBS

Above Base Goku, Vegeta and Cabba in the Universe 6 saga.

Significantly below Super Saiyan Goku, Vegeta and Cabba and also below Fat Buu in the Universe 6 saga.

Where is that in Z terms? Because Super Saiyan Goku in Super is much stronger than the SSj Goku from the Cell saga or Freeza saga. Help me understand.

[Lord Beerus]

And as far as character being killed by just punches and kicks, it has happened:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

A kicks by a Goku that was using his 100% immediately.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

A punch given by a Goku that was using all his energy in a ultimate desperate attack.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

A punch by a Boo CLEARLY intent to KILL his previus master, act to prevent any ulterior threat by him.

Imperfect Cell broke Piccolo's damn neck with one punch.

An imperfect Cell at his maximum strength, that was not playing at all in that moment.

P.Cell was at full power when he kicked Krillin? No, was awfully suppress, and Krillin, after that blow, was half dead.

Suppressed Perfect Cell at that time was stronger than every other character in the show bar SSJ Gohan post-ROSAT. Are you really telling me that in that instance Cell immensely dropped his power just to kick Krillin in the head and no kill him? That makes no sense. Why would he do that? And when did Cell provide any kind of hint that he dropped his strength just for Krillin's case? The only way that scenario makes any kind of sense is that Krillin has the strength or durability that matches, or is at the very least closely rivals, ASSJ Vegeta. That's the only way he doesn't instantly die from that.

[TheMikado]

A question out there to all the peeps, what tier is piccolo in DBS

Above Base Goku, Vegeta and Cabba in the Universe 6 saga.

Significantly below Super Saiyan Goku, Vegeta and Cabba and also below Fat Buu in the Universe 6 saga.

Where is that in Z terms? Because Super Saiyan Goku in Super is much stronger than the SSj Goku from the Cell saga or Freeza saga. Help me understand.

MUCH Stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks I think.

[Lord Beerus]

I think the show's been doing an okay job of showing that Goku and Vegeta are at god level only when they're using their god form, SSB. The events of BoG are really an outlier in that respect, as the narrative seems to be supporting the idea that SSG's realm of strength is still something special to a limited degree.

The only real examples of characters noted to surpass that level either directly or by proxy that aren't Gods of Destruction or Angels are SSB Goku/Vegeta/Copy-Vegeta, Golden Freeza, Hit, SSR Black, SSI Future Trunks, Toppo, and Jiren.

The problem is that list keeps growing.

Goku and Vegeta can't stay untouchable forever. There's always going to be competition.

[Bullza]

what are your number for the base Saiyan/ss1 in u6, Because I don't see the gap between piccolo and Frost to not be huge, since piccolo outspeed him for a while,

I don't really have any because I didn't want to start until I was clear on where things stood.I can only do it this way

Frost First Form - 10
Frost Third Form - 38
Cabba - 54
Goku - 57

Piccolo - 600
Frost Final Form - 2,280
Super Saiyan Cabba - 2,700
Super Saiyan Goku - 2,850
Fat Buu - 3,000

Additionally going by the manga Krillin would have to be below a 10 because he was inferior to Frost in his First Form.

[The gr]

what are your number for the base Saiyan/ss1 in u6, Because I don't see the gap between piccolo and Frost to not be huge, since piccolo outspeed him for a while,

I don't really have any because I didn't want to start until I was clear on where things stood.I can only do it this way

Frost First Form - 10
Frost Third Form - 38
Cabba - 54
Goku - 57

Piccolo - 760
Frost Final Form - 2,280
Super Saiyan Cabba - 2,700
Super Saiyan Goku - 2,850
Fat Buu - 3,800

Additionally going by the manga Krillin would have to be below a 10 because he was inferior to Frost in his First Form.

wait since when krillin was stated to be below first form Frost

[Bullza]

wait since when krillin was stated to below to first form Frost

When Goku was fighting Frost in his First Form they were that fast that Krillin thought they'd disappeared. Roshi also made a couple comments on how they were too fast he couldn't see them.

https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/chapters ... ter-9/4707

Page 20.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

what are your number for the base Saiyan/ss1 in u6, Because I don't see the gap between piccolo and Frost to not be huge, since piccolo outspeed him for a while,

I don't really have any because I didn't want to start until I was clear on where things stood.I can only do it this way

Frost First Form - 10
Frost Third Form - 38
Cabba - 54
Goku - 57

Piccolo - 760
Frost Final Form - 2,280
Super Saiyan Cabba - 2,700
Super Saiyan Goku - 2,850
Fat Buu - 3,800

Additionally going by the manga Krillin would have to be below a 10 because he was inferior to Frost in his First Form.

wait since when krillin was stated to be below first form Frost

It's an assumption. I personally am fine with it, since I think a good rationalization for battle powers as of late is to decrease Frost's and Freeza's power differences between suppression forms to prevent over-inflation and make things a tad bit easier to swallow.

I'm also working off the notion that Frost is indeed stronger than the trained Freeza in everything but a god-level form, because Goku and Vegeta are slightly stronger than they were in RoF.

[pacz360]

what are your number for the base Saiyan/ss1 in u6, Because I don't see the gap between piccolo and Frost to not be huge, since piccolo outspeed him for a while,

I don't really have any because I didn't want to start until I was clear on where things stood.I can only do it this way

Frost First Form - 10
Frost Third Form - 38
Cabba - 54
Goku - 57

Piccolo - 600
Frost Final Form - 2,280
Super Saiyan Cabba - 2,700
Super Saiyan Goku - 2,850
Fat Buu - 3,000

Additionally going by the manga Krillin would have to be below a 10 because he was inferior to Frost in his First Form.

I don't see fat buu being stronger than base goku or vegeta let alone frost and cabba unless your using the manga
Base vegeta still stomped ssj3 gotenks it had been referenced by goku which should put guys like frost around that tier considering vegeta had to transform to beat him.

[Bullza]

Base vegeta still stomped ssj3 gotenks it had been referenced by goku which should put guys like frost around that tier considering vegeta had to transform to beat him.

Then it would mean Frost be far above the likes of SSJ3 Gotenks. Without the idea of any retcon Base Goku should be stronger than Super Saiyan God by the Universe 6 saga.

Frost would then be above Super Saiyan God also and yet Piccolo is capable of defeating him. Which doesn't make sense because he is still weaker than Fat Buu.

The series has both portrayed Base Goku as being God level and also the Super Saiyan forms not being that level.

Then you've got things like how SSJ3 Gotenks blasted away and punched at Base Vegeta and he didn't so much as budge an inch and didn't bother to defend himself but when Goku fought Krillin he had to defend himself and he was forced back by Krillin's ki barrage. He also had to defend himself against Trunks as well.