Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Nope. He specifically mentions that he didn't set it at the end because "Man, I sure made everyone old". He then immediately says that five years after Buu was where everyone was at maximum strength.
But wouldn't that go against what Whis said about Goku having "immeasurable latent power", and also saying that Goku and Vegeta could become fearsome opponents? Granted, Goku has God-power now, but what of Vegeta? Whis knows Vegeta isn't a God, but considered him a potential adversary in the future anyways. Vegeta asked for the God-power next time, but how do we know he even got it? Even Whis was talking about his Rage outburst, wouldn't that show that he has more latent power to be obtained?
And don't Saiyans retain their youth so they can fight/train longer? I would understand if their gains over the years slowed down a bit, but stop completely? That just doesn't seem right. Could you send me a link to this interview?
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Nope. He specifically mentions that he didn't set it at the end because "Man, I sure made everyone old". He then immediately says that five years after Buu was where everyone was at maximum strength.
But wouldn't that go against what Whis said about Goku having "immeasurable latent power", and also saying that Goku and Vegeta could become fearsome opponents? Granted, Goku has God-power now, but what of Vegeta? Whis knows Vegeta isn't a God, but considered him a potential adversary in the future anyways. Vegeta asked for the God-power next time, but how do we know he even got it? Even Whis was talking about his Rage outburst, wouldn't that show that he has more latent power to be obtained?
And don't Saiyans retain their youth so they can fight/train longer? I would understand if their gains over the years slowed down a bit, but stop completely? That just doesn't seem right. Could you send me a link to this interview?
Characters are fallible, unless they're literally omnipotent.
The fact is, I thought, “Man, I really made everyone old in the last chapter of the manga”... So, I chose this period because everyone had got to maximum strength. A few years after the “Majin Buu arc”, and before Pan’s birth.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Kid Buu wrote:Pre-Majin SSJ2 Vegeta Vs Super Perfect Cell
I'm starting to think that they're about the same, with maybe Vegeta being very slightly stronger. I don't think Super Perfect Cell should be that much stronger than Dabra, otherwise I think the whole point of having him there is somewhat diminished. Either way, I think Cell would take it. If he's not outright stronger, then he's close enough to make no matter. His regeneration and techniques would hand him the victory.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Kid Buu wrote:Pre-Majin SSJ2 Vegeta Vs Super Perfect Cell
I see Super Perfect Cell being dead-even with Super Saiyan 2 Gohan from the Cell Games, seeing as how he was able to severely wound Gohan with a ki blast made for killing Vegeta, who was basically fodder at the time. I also see Vegeta being somewhat weaker then the two of them (not by much though) and only surpassing them, and ultimately catching up to Goku, from the Majin Boost. Also, Cell is more diverse in his techniques and abilities, has extreme cunning, and has regeneration to boot. I give it to Cell, but after a seemingly tough fight.
I'm gonna hold off on the Toriyama comment for now. Coming next movie we'll see what is done. I could see anything happen to change that statement. Especially since BOG did some weird things already.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Angelus wrote:Android 16 VS SSJ Goten (Babidi Saga)
SS Goten [Buu Saga] crushes 16's head like a grape. He was quite clearly stronger than Piccolo, who himself should be able to ragdoll 16 at the Cell Games, to say nothing of the Buu arc.
The kids(Goten/Trunks) seemed like they were around #18's level. #16 was a LOT more powerful than #18.
"Having to hold back immensely to not kill 18 in one attack" =/= "around 18's level".
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Angelus wrote:Android 16 VS SSJ Goten (Babidi Saga)
SS Goten [Buu Saga] crushes 16's head like a grape. He was quite clearly stronger than Piccolo, who himself should be able to ragdoll 16 at the Cell Games, to say nothing of the Buu arc.
The kids(Goten/Trunks) seemed like they were around #18's level. #16 was a LOT more powerful than #18.
"Having to hold back immensely to not kill 18 in one attack" =/= "around 18's level".
> implying "immensely" was even close to being a suggested amount.
> implying the kids could measure how much was needed to kill her, let alone sense her at all.
Angelus wrote:Android 16 VS SSJ Goten (Babidi Saga)
SS Goten [Buu Saga] crushes 16's head like a grape. He was quite clearly stronger than Piccolo, who himself should be able to ragdoll 16 at the Cell Games, to say nothing of the Buu arc.
The kids(Goten/Trunks) seemed like they were around #18's level. #16 was a LOT more powerful than #18.
"Having to hold back immensely to not kill 18 in one attack" =/= "around 18's level".
> implying "immensely" was even close to being a suggested amount.
> implying the kids could measure how much was needed to kill her, let alone sense her at all.
They held back power and their blast STILL made her crap herself. Their estimate was obviously accurate. We know it to be an immense amount because these same kids sparred on somewhat even terms with Gohan and Vegeta.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
SSJ God Gogeta wrote:I Still think that #16 has a chance at victory.
I think if he get's his hands on Goten it's all over.
Unless you think 16 can give trouble to post-Cell Games Vegeta/Gohan, he has no chance.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
SSJ God Gogeta wrote:I Still think that #16 has a chance at victory.
I think if he get's his hands on Goten it's all over.
Unless you think 16 can give trouble to post-Cell Games Vegeta/Gohan, he has no chance.
Well we can always have a double K.O.
#16 uses his Self Destruct Device.
I highly doubt that the bomb is strong enough to even wound Goten. Cell said he didn't think it would have worked anyway, and he was just screwing around with 16. He shows that he could've gotten free of 16's grip any time he wanted, and he was still suppressed to his warm-up level. Goten should he able to do the same. He's also unquestionably stronger than Semi-Cell, who one-shotted 16. Goten only needs a single blow to end this "fight".
[That also wouldn't be a win for 16 even if it worked]
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
