"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Freeza9000]

Zamasu: Die and repent your sins, mortal!!!!
Veget: Ha!!!!

I'm actually dying on the floor.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I don't think anyone can deny that the power scale is also fucked off in the manga, trough its still better than the anime's. I mean, BASE Vegetto was able to greatly damage Merged Zamasu.

Vegetto is a hax monster, that didn't bug me at all. Merged Zamasu's power is held back by Zamasu

It still doesn't make sense. While Toyotaro went the logical route and didn't make Merged a lot more powerful than Black, he is still supposed to be at the very least as strong as SS Rosé Black, who is stronger than Vegeta SSG [SSB], who is stronger than Goku SSG from BoG, who is supposed to be stronger than Buu Saga Super Vegito, who is stronger than Buuhan, who is stronger than Base Vegito. It just doesn't work. Vegetto is a monster, but defineltly not God tier in base, in the manga version at least.

Goku Black SSJ Rosé = SSG Vegeta <SSB Vegeta

It was not just strategy, otherwise Vegeta would not even scratch Black. Black himself wonders how he was able to draw so much power from that body.
_____

There is no problem in the fact that Vegetto base did damage to Zamasu. Goku's Kamehameha punched him too. We know that to take a chance, he would have to at least use the SSG.

[MisteryOne]

Vegetto is a hax monster, that didn't bug me at all. Merged Zamasu's power is held back by Zamasu

It still doesn't make sense. While Toyotaro went the logical route and didn't make Merged a lot more powerful than Black, he is still supposed to be at the very least as strong as SS Rosé Black, who is stronger than Vegeta SSG [SSB], who is stronger than Goku SSG from BoG, who is supposed to be stronger than Buu Saga Super Vegito, who is stronger than Buuhan, who is stronger than Base Vegito. It just doesn't work. Vegetto is a monster, but defineltly not God tier in base, in the manga version at least.

Goku Black SSJ Rosé = SSG Vegeta <SSB Vegeta

It was not just strategy, otherwise Vegeta would not even scratch Black. Black himself wonders how he was able to draw so much power from that body.
_____

There is no problem in the fact that Vegetto base did damage to Zamasu. Goku's Kamehameha punched him too. We know that to take a chance, he would have to at least use the SSG.

He also said that Vegeta was not a lot more stronger trough, and Rosé should leages above initial SSB Vegeta since his SS1 form alone was already at his level.

Anyway, how there isn't any problem? He literally destroyed half of his torso and an arm. If Merged wasn't inmortal, he would be fucked. Are you really telling me that you just need to be around SS2 tier (thats my stimation for Boo arc Base Vegetto, but anyway, he needed SS to defeat Boohan, who is supposed to be way weaker than SSG) to damage him that bad? Because then, Merged would be way weaker than Black himself. There is just no way that a God tier level character is damaged that bad by base Vegetto. It would make BoG stupid, as well as Goku's comment on SSG's power. It would also make the God forms way weaker than in the other medias.

Thats the thing. To have a chance, you should at least be using a God transformation to damage Merged, let alone damage him that bad. Is Vegetto God tier in base now?

[Lord Beerus]

I've seen the raws of the chapter and I like to a degree what I saw.

The hand-to-hand choreography was nice, the art as usual was great and of course Vegetto returning was nice. But I just can't help bult feel how less spectacular the whole battle is with Merged Zamasu against everyone else. Toyotaro also really needs to cut down on the homages, too. It once every once in a while but there were a bit too many in this chapter for my liking. It just seemed a bit uncreative on his part.

While the power logic was all kinds of muddled in the anime, it made up for it with moments of that felt really grand and visually pleasing. But I appreciate that the manga is taking the more power/strength logical approach to the story, even if makes the narrative and grandeur of the battles far less interesting.

I really don't like the fact that Vegeta and Goku took turns to fight Merged Zamasu. When shit got real in the Future Trunks arc, especially after the losing initially against Goku Black and Zamasu, Goku and Vegeta didn't treat this like it was a game at all after that. It seemed like they slipped back into that bad habit that they displayed in the Resurrection F movie/arc. But hey... they're Saiyans. What can you do?

I liked that Merged Zamasu used more Kaioshin-like techniques, but I really wished he would have been more unique with his abilities and techniques like he was in the anime.

I've very intrigued to see the translated version of this chapter.

[TheSaiyanGod]

It still doesn't make sense. While Toyotaro went the logical route and didn't make Merged a lot more powerful than Black, he is still supposed to be at the very least as strong as SS Rosé Black, who is stronger than Vegeta SSG [SSB], who is stronger than Goku SSG from BoG, who is supposed to be stronger than Buu Saga Super Vegito, who is stronger than Buuhan, who is stronger than Base Vegito. It just doesn't work. Vegetto is a monster, but defineltly not God tier in base, in the manga version at least.

Goku Black SSJ Rosé = SSG Vegeta <SSB Vegeta

It was not just strategy, otherwise Vegeta would not even scratch Black. Black himself wonders how he was able to draw so much power from that body.
_____

There is no problem in the fact that Vegetto base did damage to Zamasu. Goku's Kamehameha punched him too. We know that to take a chance, he would have to at least use the SSG.

He also said that Vegeta was not a lot more stronger trough, and Rosé should leages above initial SSB Vegeta since his SS1 form alone was already at his level.

Anyway, how there isn't any problem? He literally destroyed half of his torso and an arm. If Merged wasn't inmortal, he would be fucked. Are you really telling me that you just need to be around SS2 tier (thats my stimation for Boo arc Base Vegetto, but anyway, he needed SS to defeat Boohan, who is supposed to be way weaker than SSG) to damage him that bad? Because then, Merged would be way weaker than Black himself. There is just no way that a God tier level character is damaged that bad by base Vegetto. It would make BoG stupid, as well as Goku's comment on SSG's power. It would also make the God forms way weaker than in the other medias.

Thats the thing. To have a chance, you should at least be using a God transformation to damage Merged, let alone damage him that bad. Is Vegetto God tier in base now?

He said that Vegeta did not look very different.

But he was in base form, and the battle had not started. We know that the Z-Fighters only release their true powers at the time of the fight.
And Vegeta himself could be hiding his strength so he did not notice.

Black realized at once that Vegeta was faster on SSG, and asked how he managed to take that much power out of that body. Vegeta was much stronger than before, otherwise he could not even scratch Black SSJ Rosé.

And I'm saying that Vegetto having ripped off half of Zamasu's body does not mean anything because Goku himself on SSB has made a hole in his body. That does not mean that he's in the base form is stronger.
Incidentally, on these two occasions Zamasu was distracted and was taken by surprise by the attacks.

The base form of Goku and vegeta is much stronger than before, so the fusion will also be

[Bullza]

Anyone know what the title of the chapter is called?

[Cipher]

Anyone know what the title of the chapter is called?

"The Potaras' True Value," per the Japanese scans.

[Abra kadabra]

-snip-

Goku puts a hole in Merged zamasu and base vegeto takes out half his torso. If he wasn't immortal he'd most likely be dead. How is that not bullshit? This kind of selective critiquing is getting very tiresome. I've even seen some people defending ssj Vegeta smacking around a ssj3 < black in previous chapters. I've seen people saying the manga is more logical. More logical? You can't bash the anime then defend the manga (which is worse if you care about that stuff). Ridiculous.

Anyways, as always the manga is as lifeless as it usually is (outside of trunk's speech about the late bulma). It really pales in comparison to the grand spectacle and symbolism of the anime which is a shame since it had the advantage of going on after the manga. I guess you can't really expect great writing from a mangaka who is terrible at writing.

[dbzfan7]

-snip-

Goku puts a hole in Merged zamasu and base vegeto takes out half his torso. If he wasn't immortal he'd most likely be dead. How is that not bullshit? This kind of selective critiquing is getting very tiresome. I've even seen some people defending ssj Vegeta smacking around a ssj3 < black in previous chapters. I've seen people saying the manga is more logical. More logical? You can't bash the anime then defend the manga (which is worse if you care about that stuff). Ridiculous.

Anyways, as always the manga is as lifeless as it usually is (outside of trunk's speech about the late bulma). It really pales in comparison to the grand spectacle and symbolism of the anime which is a shame since it had the advantage of going on after the manga. I guess you can't really expect great writing from a mangaka who is terrible at writing.

In both cases, Zamasu is not at all aware of the attack, and in neither case is he harmed in any real way. It's in the same case where Boo can be torn apart by certain attacks and just shrug it off and regenerate. It's the same here. Not to mention he constantly lets himself get stabbed and blasted all the time in both anime and manga to show he's pretty much invincible as he'd probably think. What Goku and Vegetto did here is far more sensible than Zamasu being overpowered by Vegeta and Trunks, and then overpowered by Solo Goku. Not to mention this Merged Zamasu is weaker than the anime one, as Zamasu himself is weaker than Trunks is in the manga, without randomly powering up.

No one denies the manga is not flawed and has it's own problems and questionable choices. I still don't quite understand the whole SSJG/B thing they tried to do. But it's the lesser evil than the anime which constantly every week throws out any sense of logic for something cool. Merely skipping both set up and build up, and just throwing out pay offs left and right.

[batistabus]

Not sure what's going on with constantly switching to Blue, but I'll have to wait for the translation. Maybe they're hoping they can make a difference in the short amount of time they'd have powered up? Really looking forward to reading the exchange between Vegeta and Trunks as well.

As for Merged Zamasu, I'm so pleased by how Toyotaro handled him. The anime gave him a bunch of random nonsense that came out of nowhere and fit better in a Final Fantasy game than Dragon Ball. He had all of these weird attacks that were generic and uninspired. In the manga, he truly has the best of both worlds when it comes to Black and Zamasu. He has Zamasu's Kaioshin attendant abilities (which are used very creatively, love the Katchin attacks), as well as Black's superior strength and ki.

The choreography and "script" of the fight was really cool as well, where we get to see Zamasu try out his abilities. Every bit feels unique and interesting. I don't mind the homages...I don't think they're as distracting as people make them out to be, but I don't think their needed either. Regardless, I understand why Toyotaro includes them.

I'm surprised by just how quickly Vegetto defused. I know it was already decently short in the anime, but I felt like it just came and went. I guess the Potara really aren't meant to handle the power of Super Saiyan Blue.

Again, we'll wait for the translation, but I much prefer the way the exchange between Goku and Vegeta went about fusion in the manga. In the anime, it was just "Let's fuse!" "No!" "Please!" "Grrr, okay!". Here, Goku already knows Vegeta probably won't do it, but decides to give it a shot. He doesn't really want to either, so when Vegeta says no, he confidently breaks it to Kaioshin. When Vegeta has a change of heart - not because the situation seems so hopeless, but because of Bulma - he proposes it to Goku. It really shows how much Vegeta has changed, and how well Goku and Vegeta understand each other.

This chapter fixed many things I disliked about the anime. I don't love the Potara change, and I kind if wish that fusion was avoided altogether, but those are clearly Toriyama bits and they don't heavily affect my enjoyment of the story.

[TheMikado]

You know what, after seeing both the manga and anime, I really think Toriyama phoned this arc in.. and I mean hard.

[nato25]

I'd like to know where this whole notion of someone's body not being damaged by attacks came through. If a person is not prepared for an attack they will always take heavy damage, attacks don't just bounce off no matter how powerful someone is if they aren't prepared for it.

The only example I can think of where that actually does happen is Krillin with his Kienzan against Perfect Cell but who knows if Cell was actually prepared for that attack or not.

[batistabus]

The only example I can think of where that actually does happen is Krillin with his Kienzan against Perfect Cell but who knows if Cell was actually prepared for that attack or not.

Also, that only happens in the anime.

[Doctor.]

I'd like to know where this whole notion of someone's body not being damaged by attacks came through. If a person is not prepared for an attack they will always take heavy damage, attacks don't just bounce off no matter how powerful someone is if they aren't prepared for it.

Goku was in front of him.

[batistabus]

I'd like to know where this whole notion of someone's body not being damaged by attacks came through. If a person is not prepared for an attack they will always take heavy damage, attacks don't just bounce off no matter how powerful someone is if they aren't prepared for it.

Goku was in front of him.

Goku had his back to Zamasu and was clearly hiding the fact that he was about to fire a Kamehameha. Even if it would have been smart for Zamasu to still be on his guard, he was confident in his strength and knew he could probably regenerate anyway.

[Doctor.]

I'd like to know where this whole notion of someone's body not being damaged by attacks came through. If a person is not prepared for an attack they will always take heavy damage, attacks don't just bounce off no matter how powerful someone is if they aren't prepared for it.

Goku was in front of him.

Goku had his back to Zamasu and was clearly hiding the fact that he was about to fire a Kamehameha.

There's not one moment in the original series where a vastly stronger opponent suffered so much damage from a vastly weaker opponent, besides Boo who is a special case since his body has been pierced by bullets; the regeneration abuse is not comparable, Zamasu can't control the durability of his body. The "he was off-guard" excuse has been terrible ever since its inclusion in the Resurrection 'F' movie.

Like I said, I'm going to drop the manga. Don't bother replying, I don't really care for a debate. A creatively bankrupt author isn't worth my time.

[nato25]

I'm not upset about that hole in all, I think it's clear Zamasu took the Kamehameha on purpose either based on cockyness, a show of strength or to test out his immortality powers.

And that's fair enough if you want to give up on the manga, this arc definitely has it's fair share of problems but for me this chapter of the manga entertained me and didn't create any new ones.

[batistabus]

There's not one moment in the original series where a vastly stronger opponent suffered so much damage from a vastly weaker opponent

Like I said, I'm going to drop the manga. Don't bother replying, I don't really care for a debate. A creatively bankrupt author isn't worth my time.

Piccolo, who is much weaker than Raditz, kills him by shooting a hole through his chest.

If you plan on dropping the manga, then I assume you'll drop the anime for the same reasons. I'm genuinely sorry you can't get past these things and still enjoy the material, and I respect your decision to move on.

[Doctor.]

There's not one moment in the original series where a vastly stronger opponent suffered so much damage from a vastly weaker opponent

Like I said, I'm going to drop the manga. Don't bother replying, I don't really care for a debate. A creatively bankrupt author isn't worth my time.

Piccolo, who is much weaker than Raditz, kills him by shooting a hole through his chest.

If you plan on dropping the manga, then I assume you'll drop the anime for the same reasons. I'm genuinely sorry you can't get past these things and still enjoy the material, and I respect your decision to move on.

In that case, it was specifically noted that Piccolo's attack had a power level similar to Raditz's.

I'm not dropping the manga for power level reasons, I just explained why some may find some scenes in this chapter problematic from that point of view. I'm dropping the manga because Toyotaro is a creatively bankrupt author who can't put any original thought into his manga, it doesn't seem like he can't do anything by himself and needs to root himself in Toriyama's work. The original characters are static, the new characters are boring with no interesting traits to define them, there are no original powers or characters, none of the dialogue is memorable, they all feel like info dumps.

The anime, for all its shortcomings, doesn't suffer from originality; it has it in spades, even in the ideas that seem unoriginal. That's why it's entertaining, the anime is a conjoined effort of various professional writers trying to do the best they can with Toriyama's barebone outlines. The manga is exactly what it is: a fanboy who feels like the original is too sacred of a work to do anything interesting with it.

[OLKv3]

K bye. You don't have to keep repeating that you're dropping the manga as if it's some heartbreaking moment for the fandom lol