Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[TheMightyOzaru]

But it's okay for us to believe the low-level trash Kakarotto was able to defeat Freeza. Sure, that makes sense.

According to Salagir then, he's 200x stronger, which means his base is 2 million. Super Saiyan is 100x that, right? So he's 200 million. Freeza is only at 5 million with 100% power, which means Bardock can easily flick his finger and kill him. Am I to believe King Cold in his final form to be THAT much stronger than Freeza? Maybe, but don't ask me to believe he easily tops 200 million, that's simply ridiculous.

Vegeta and Kakarotto could be sparring partners. Bardock is by himself. SSJ is 50x base actually. Freeza's full power is 120,000,000, not 5,000,000. King Cold's second form isn't THAT much weaker than Freeza:

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P2.3-4
Gohan: “Ku-Kuririn-san, did you notice it!? F-Freeza and ano-another large ki that resembles Freeza…!!”
Kuririn: “Y-yeah…There’s no way I couldn’t notice…ki this huge and gaudy…”

Yeah you could easily says Freeza and Cold are suppressed buuuuuuuuuuuut:

Freeza's father. He is a shadowy presence in the organization, and nobody knows of his existence apart from his family and his direct subordinates, not even the Ginyu Special-Squad. Though he's the head of the strongest family in the universe, he is somewhat inferior to Freeza.

That's from the Daizenshuu 7 and it basically says Cold's second form is around Freeza's full power. I can buy Cold being around C-16's level if he could transform but he can't which is what I call bull shit on. I could buy Cold transforming if he had done it against Trunks.

[Saimaroimaru]

Fuck it. Know what? Don't know, don't care.

Oh? Thought this "idk care about the pl debate" boat was gonna only gonna have me in it. Welcome to the boat of sanity. Now watch as the pl debators tear each other apart.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Fuck it. Know what? Don't know, don't care.

Oh? Thought this "idk care about the pl debate" boat was gonna only gonna have me in it. Welcome to the boat of sanity. Now watch as the pl debators tear each other apart.

I'm on this boat too, or an adjacent one, depending on it's capacity. Story BS is more likely to bug me than any power discrepancy one, especially since we're dealing with alternate universes here.

[Saiga]

Well, considering that Freeza's power level may or may not be retconned, and we don't know what multiplier Salagir uses for Super Saiyan... there's no way we can determine whether Bardock is as high as Cold or not. It was also "at least 200 times" not just 200 times, and although it logically wouldn't be much higher than 200 times (or else a higher number would be used) there's still room for it to be higher. After all, the first rule of DBM is leave your logic at the door.

[rereboy]

#16-like power is within the realm of power of unfused SSJ1s, especially if they mastered the form. So I don't see any problems.

I don't care about power level numbers or whatever. They just complicate things.

[Kaboom]

Basically it's nigh-indeterminable because Saligir changes things all willy-nilly to his whims and the whole thing becomes a messy clusterf*ck.

[FoolsGil]

We all shouldn't be surprised if Bardock survives King Cold's sucker punch. Let's all remember that Dabura vs Gohan debacle. Basic SSJ is far more powerful than we have ever imagined.

[TheMightyOzaru]

What Dabura vs Gohan debacle? They were practically equals in terms of power =/.

[FoolsGil]

What Dabura vs Gohan debacle? They were practically equals in terms of power =/.

I mean the Future Majin Attack battle between Dabura and Gohan. When Mirai Gohan didn't have SSJ2 under his belt and somehow powered up when Dabura held him and broke free? And the resulting battle that followed Dabura could have easily crippled Gohan with a pinkie but didn't? That's what I was going on about.

[TheMightyOzaru]

What Dabura vs Gohan debacle? They were practically equals in terms of power =/.

I mean the Future Majin Attack battle between Dabura and Gohan. When Mirai Gohan didn't have SSJ2 under his belt and somehow powered up when Dabura held him and broke free? And the resulting battle that followed Dabura could have easily crippled Gohan with a pinkie but didn't? That's what I was going on about.

Oh. Well the story forces a large amount of Dabura's energy to be taken so there really is no debacle there. I just call bull shit that Babidi is stupid enough to pit an energy drained Dabura against a SSJ.

[CaBrPi]

Yet Gohan was able to not be utterly stomped in the first round. I'm pretty sure that qualifies as a debacle.

[rereboy]

That comparison is horrible.

Unfused SSJ1s, especially mastered SSJ1s, can easily compete and even be stronger than #16 and, by extension, King Cold (since it was stated that he was around that power). SSJ1 Bardock can be that strong since unfused SSJ1s can easily be that strong and we have no idea how strong SSJ Bardock is or what happened in his universe.

Future Gohan, however, we know how strong he was and he was nowhere near the power of #16, and yet he was able to fight with an opponent as powerful as Cell without being easily killed.

So, its not really comparable. At all.

[Saiga]

Yeah, I don't find this to be bullshit.

We know that this Bardock is at least 200 times stronger than he was in Universe 10, not the movie, and we know that Salagir may have changed both Freeza's battle power and the Super Saiyan multiplier.

In other words, we can't even begin to work anything out. But it's fine for an unmastered Super Saiyan to be at #16's level, so this isn't bullshit for me.

[Kaboom]

Yeah. Give Vegeta or Goku from the Androids arc another year or so of training, and they could more than likely match or beat No.16. If this version of Bardock's been a Super Saiyan for a few decades or something at this point, then it's more than believable enough for him to be that strong, even with DBM's chopped-up continuity and in-universe details.

[miguelnuva1]

Yeah. Give Vegeta or Goku from the Androids arc another year or so of training, and they could more than likely match or beat No.16. If this version of Bardock's been a Super Saiyan for a few decades or something at this point, then it's more than believable enough for him to be that strong, even with DBM's chopped-up continuity and in-universe details.

Breaking the Super Saiyan barrier was implied to be the only way to gain stronger powers.

[Kamiccolo9]

Yeah. Give Vegeta or Goku from the Androids arc another year or so of training, and they could more than likely match or beat No.16. If this version of Bardock's been a Super Saiyan for a few decades or something at this point, then it's more than believable enough for him to be that strong, even with DBM's chopped-up continuity and in-universe details.

Breaking the Super Saiyan barrier was implied to be the only way to gain stronger powers.

Goku went from being weaker than Android Arc Vegeta, to on par with suppressed Perfect Cell in less than a year just by mastering the basic SSJ form and sparring with his son. He got way stronger without using other forms. Any implication there was in the beginning was rendered moot when Goku and Gohan emerged stronger than SSJ Grades 2 and 3 Vegeta and Trunks while staying in the regular SSJ form.

[Kaboom]

Breaking the Super Saiyan barrier was implied to be the only way to gain stronger powers.

Maybe the best or most effective way, but certainly not the "only" way.

I don't believe that general stages or levels of power have any such cap on them; only slowdowns where it becomes increasingly more difficult to gain power, but not impossible. Even if your training's effectiveness loses its momentum and your improvement slows down to where you're only gaining one "point" of power per day (on top of the hundreds of millions you're already sporting as a Super Saiyan), you're still technically getting stronger.

[miguelnuva1]

Yeah. Give Vegeta or Goku from the Androids arc another year or so of training, and they could more than likely match or beat No.16. If this version of Bardock's been a Super Saiyan for a few decades or something at this point, then it's more than believable enough for him to be that strong, even with DBM's chopped-up continuity and in-universe details.

Breaking the Super Saiyan barrier was implied to be the only way to gain stronger powers.

Goku went from being weaker than Android Arc Vegeta, to on par with suppressed Perfect Cell in less than a year just by mastering the basic SSJ form and sparring with his son. He got way stronger without using other forms. Any implication there was in the beginning was rendered moot when Goku and Gohan emerged stronger than SSJ Grades 2 and 3 Vegeta and Trunks while staying in the regular SSJ form.

Goku still had to break the barrier to decide that MSSJ was the best way to go. the SSJ forms looked like they were maxed out at that time and the ROSAT was the only way for the saiyans to reach the new levels of power, had they'd had a year on the outside I don't think they would have gotten as strong.

[Kamiccolo9]

Goku still had to break the barrier to decide that MSSJ was the best way to go. the SSJ forms looked like they were maxed out at that time and the ROSAT was the only way for the saiyans to reach the new levels of power, had they'd had a year on the outside I don't think they would have gotten as strong.

He didn't have to. Gohan achieved FPSSJ without obtaining either of the grades. Goku just happened to try out the grades first before deciding to master SSJ.
They probably wouldn't have gotten as strong, but they definitely would have gotten much stronger, even without the ROSAT.

[dbzfan7]

Vegetto having a cry baby moment.