Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[Saiga]

No it doesn't, Gohan was eager to participate in the 25th Budokai. And even if it was OOC for U16/U18 Gohan to participate, ignoring that and making them participate anyway would be infinitely better than cloning him.

[Dr. Machismo]

No it doesn't, Gohan was eager to participate in the 25th Budokai. And even if it was OOC for U16/U18 Gohan to participate, ignoring that and making them participate anyway would be infinitely better than cloning him.

Gohan was not eager to participate in that tournament. Videl forced him to. At the 28th World Martial Arts Tournament, Gohan did not compete. Gohan really only fights when he has to, and he did not have to join this tournament.

And my idea of U7 Gohan is not a clone of U16/U18 Gohan. U7 Gohan would be similar to U16/U18 Gohan in strength, but his looks and personality would be more similar to U12 Gohan (Future Gohan).

[dbzfan7]

You seriously take what I say too seriously. Let me backtrack on what I was saying. I had come up with the idea that U7 Gohan should have competed in the tournament instead of Bardock, being around the same level as U16/U18 Gohan, and Gast Carcohl was to be his master and psychic. People questioned on how it would be possible, and I came up with some ideas on how it would be. Saying things like "Oh, we can't be sure of that" or "there's no canonical evidence supporting that" is a terrible response ... but it was an IDEA. If a person comes up with an idea, then it doesn't matter if there's no canonical evidence supporting it. If my idea doesn't interfere with what's already established, then it's flawless in every way that wouldn't be linked to one's personal taste.

Your idea does interfere with what is already established. That's the problem. Just like how Salagir has ideas that he implements that go against what is established.

I don't need evidence about there being another way Gohan could break his limits. We don't have evidence that there is one, so I could just come up with one. Am I trying to say that there is a way because I said so? NO. I'm only proposing an IDEA. There's nothing to say that there isn't another way or things wouldn't work if there was another way.

An idea can still not work. An idea needs to have a driving force behind it or it's just silly.

Gohan was not eager to participate in that tournament. Videl forced him to. At the 28th World Martial Arts Tournament, Gohan did not compete. Gohan really only fights when he has to, and he did not have to join this tournament.

And my idea of U7 Gohan is not a clone of U16/U18 Gohan. U7 Gohan would be similar to U16/U18 Gohan in strength, but his looks and personality would be more similar to U12 Gohan (Future Gohan).

So he is a clone of Future Gohan then but stronger. That is still a clone.

[Dr. Machismo]

Your idea does interfere with what is already established. That's the problem. Just like how Salagir has ideas that he implements that go against what is established.

Explain how it does.

An idea can still not work. An idea needs to have a driving force behind it or it's just silly.

Elaborate.

So he is a clone of Future Gohan then but stronger. That is still a clone.

But not a clone of the main canon Gohan, which the other guy clearly thought.

[dbzfan7]

Explain how it does.

I did several times. I explained how Gohans gains being that large are impossible to make without the Elder Kaioshin, I explained how Gast can't do a Dragon clan technique even though he fused with the guy who could, and I explained the inconsistencies of Salagir that don't work. You just wouldn't listen to any of them. The only thing I can see your argument working is dependant on when Gast was called to the tournament. That is the only variable that can support Gohans growth getting that high. (even though Goku is alive and i'm not sure if Trunks saves this timelines Goku or not)

... but not a clone of the main canon Gohan, which the other guy clearly thought.

It's Future Gohan except more powerful. That is a clone. You may as well just hax the original Future Gohan as it would be the same thing.

[Saiga]

Videl forced him at first, but he was clearly eager to do it after that. That's why he went around asking other people to join, and got pumped up to train, etc. He is very clearly excited by it.

[Dr. Machismo]

I did several times. I explained how Gohans gains being that large are impossible to make without the Elder Kaioshin, I explained how Gast can't do a Dragon clan technique even though he fused with the guy who could, and I explained the inconsistencies of Salagir that don't work. You just wouldn't listen to any of them.

No, you didn't. There is no reason to not believe that there is a way Gohan could reach that sort of power without Old Kai. He could have met Old Kai himself, too. You explained how unlikely it would be for Gast to pull out someone's potential, but that doesn't mean there's not a chance he can. I'm pretty sure you're going to say "That's not proven" ... but uh, it doesn't have to be. It's called an idea.

It's Future Gohan except more powerful. That is a clone. You may as well just hax the original Future Gohan as it would be the same thing.

Him being a clone of Future Gohan is irrelevant to the argument there. What do you mean by "hax" the original Future Gohan?

Videl forced him at first, but he was clearly eager to do it after that. That's why he went around asking other people to join, and got pumped up to train, etc. He is very clearly excited by it.

He only got eager at the thought of seeing Goku again.

Gohan, in general, does not enjoy fighting and only does when he has to.

[dbzfan7]

No, you didn't. There is no reason to not believe that there is a way Gohan could reach that sort of power without Old Kai. He could have met Old Kai himself, too. You explained how unlikely it would be for Gast to pull out someone's potential, but that doesn't mean there's not a chance he can.

What part did you not understand. I explained why Gast can't use potential unlocking as its Dragon Clan only (and you reply with he isn't an ordinary Warrior type with nothing backing that up as nothing dictates he is any different.) I say Gohan can't get his power as high as his U16/18 self as he has a power up that shits all over SSJ3. Gohan could not reach that power level without the Old Kaioshin. All the biggest training methods I ruled out as ROSAT can only be used for 2 days in a lifetime, Zenkai's become non existent after SSJ, Afterlife training is only possible when your dead, and Normal mountain training can't bring much gains after a while. The biggest gains Saiyans got were from transformations. Gohan could get SSJ3 and still be weaker than the Ultimate power up. (You say he can get those increases because you say so which isn't an argument)

Him being a clone of Future Gohan is irrelevant to the argument there. What do you mean by "hax" the original Future Gohan?

I mean you may as well give the original Future Gohan a massive power boost as it would be the same thing as what your saying as their personalities would be the same. Meaning the U7 Gohan you talk about is basically Future Gohan with more power, which is still a clone. You need to establish an actual difference. Don't just copy F. Gohan personality with P.Gohan power and call it something completely new.

[Saiga]

No, Gohan clearly showed excitement at more than just meeting Goku. He's pumped to train, which he wouldn't even need to do if he doesn't care about the tournament, and he's inviting others to participate.

[Dr. Machismo]

What part did you not understand. I explained why Gast can't use potential unlocking as its Dragon Clan only (and you reply with he isn't an ordinary Warrior type with nothing backing that up as nothing dictates he is any different.) I say Gohan can't get his power as high as his U16/18 self as he has a power up that shits all over SSJ3. Gohan could not reach that power level without the Old Kaioshin. All the biggest training methods I ruled out as ROSAT can only be used for 2 days in a lifetime, Zenkai's become non existent after SSJ, Afterlife training is only possible when your dead, and Normal mountain training can't bring any gains. The biggest gains Saiyans got were from transformations. Gohan could get SSJ3 and still be weaker than the Ultimate power up. (You say he can get those increases because you say so which isn't an argument)

I did back up my claim that Gast isn't an ordinary warrior type; he's a merge of several Namekians. And it's still likely Gohan could have reached that power level without Old Kai. If he was as serious about training as Goku and Vegeta, then there's a chance he could. The ROSAT, Zenkais and Afterlife training might have been ruled out, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have found another way.

I mean you may as well give the original Future Gohan a massive power boost as it would be the same thing as what your saying as their personalities would be the same. Meaning the U7 Gohan you talk about is basically Future Gohan with more power, which is still a clone.

How would giving the original Future Gohan a power boost work? He was already dead in U12 by the time this tournament started. There could have been universe where the original Future Gohan survived, but I think using U7 Gohan and making him similar to U12 Gohan works a lot better. U7 Gohan could have left with Gast Carcohl to help him out on his journey, while in the meantime, the Androids devastate Earth. That would set U7 Gohan on the road to becoming like U12 Gohan.

No, Gohan clearly showed excitement at more than just meeting Goku. He's pumped to train, which he wouldn't even need to do if he doesn't care about the tournament, and he's inviting others to participate.

It was Goku returning that really got Gohan going. Obviously, after hearing that his father would return, he'd want to train to not disappoint him. And seeing as he was going to compete in a tournament with his dad and Vegeta, he obviously would want to train so he wouldn't get smashed. He may have been excited to meet reunite his friends, but that doesn't mean he was excited about the tournament. Since he, Goku and Vegeta were competing, he might have thought "Hey, maybe I should get the rest of the gang. Why not?"

[dbzfan7]

I did back up my claim that Gast isn't an ordinary warrior type; he's a merge of several Namekians. And it's still likely Gohan could have reached that power level without Old Kai. If he was as serious about training as Goku and Vegeta, then there's a chance he could. The ROSAT, Zenkais and Afterlife training might have been ruled out, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have found another way.

Why does merging with a bunch of different Nameks make him different, He is just an overpowered Warrior Namek. Merging with a bunch of Nameks changes nothing. Piccolo merged with Kami who is of the Dragon Clan and yet he couldn't do any Dragon Clan techniques. Nail is the base of the fusion who is a warrior type, so that is the type of Namek Gast is. Your second argument has nothing to support how he could achieve a power level as high as P. Gohan. F. Gohan was serious when he was the only warrior left to protect earth, and he isn't that powerful at all. He was dedicated to destroying the Cyborgs and yet after all his training he didn't even reach half the power they had (and these are the Future Cyborgs who are confirmed weaker than the present one's) . He only used mountain training,possibly gravity training, and sparring with SSJ Trunks who he said would soon surpass him (Trunks was already an SSJ in the manga). That's like saying Goku could reach a power level to destroy the multi-verse in one blast which he could never achieve.

How would giving the original Future Gohan a power boost work? He was already dead in U12 by the time this tournament started. There could have been universe where the original Future Gohan survived, but I think using U7 Gohan and making him similar to U12 Gohan works a lot better. U7 Gohan could have left with Gast Carcohl to help him out on his journey, while in the meantime, the Androids devastate Earth. That would set U7 Gohan on the road to becoming like U12 Gohan.

You don't understand, what i'm saying is that your idea is basically Future Gohan with more power. Me suggesting to hax the original is just to point out how your idea is basically a clone. If his personality is the exact same as U12 Gohan. Then your U7 Gohan is a clone of U12 Gohan, but stronger. Gohan's dad is also still alive so he isn't going to just go off with Gast as he doesn't like fighting. Goku could still die if Trunks never shows up to possibly set what you want up.

[Dr. Machismo]

I did back up my claim that Gast isn't an ordinary warrior type; he's a merge of several Namekians. And it's still likely Gohan could have reached that power level without Old Kai. If he was as serious about training as Goku and Vegeta, then there's a chance he could. The ROSAT, Zenkais and Afterlife training might have been ruled out, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have found another way.

Why does merging with a bunch of different Nameks make him different, He is just an overpowered Warrior Namek. Merging with a bunch of Nameks changes nothing. Piccolo merged with Kami who is of the Dragon Clan and yet he couldn't do any Dragon Clan techniques. Nail is the base of the fusion who is a warrior type, so that is the type of Namek Gast is. Your second argument has nothing to support how he could achieve a power level as high as P. Gohan. F. Gohan was serious when he was the only warrior left to protect earth, and he isn't that powerful at all. He was dedicated to destroying the Cyborgs and yet after all his training he didn't even reach half the power they had (and these are the Future Cyborgs who are confirmed weaker than the present one's) . He only used mountain training,possibly gravity training, and sparring with SSJ Trunks who he said would soon surpass him (Trunks was already an SSJ in the manga). That's like saying Goku could reach a power level to destroy the multi-verse in one blast which he could never achieve ever in no amount of time.

He merged with more than one Namekian, so I think there's a chance he could have abilities unique to a warrior Namekian. And even if he doesn't, there are still other ways for U7 Gohan to get that powerup. And why are you bringing up Future Gohan? I was talking about U16/U18 Gohan.

How would giving the original Future Gohan a power boost work? He was already dead in U12 by the time this tournament started. There could have been universe where the original Future Gohan survived, but I think using U7 Gohan and making him similar to U12 Gohan works a lot better. U7 Gohan could have left with Gast Carcohl to help him out on his journey, while in the meantime, the Androids devastate Earth. That would set U7 Gohan on the road to becoming like U12 Gohan.

You don't understand, what i'm saying is that your idea is basically Future Gohan with more power. Me suggesting to hax the original is just to point out how your idea is basically a clone. If his personality is the exact same as U12 Gohan. Then your U7 Gohan is a clone of U12 Gohan, but stronger. Gohan's dad is also still alive so he isn't going to just go off with Gast as he doesn't like fighting. Goku could still die if Trunks never shows up to possibly set what you want up.

My idea isn't even exactly a clone of U12 Gohan. Sure, he has a similar appearance, personality, look and background, but that doesn't make him a clone. And if having the same personality makes him a clone, that's still not a bad thing. Gohan said himself in the Universe 7 chapter that he wanted to travel with Gast Carcohl. While he's with Gast Carcohl, the Androids strike and kill the Z Fighters on Earth, including Goku. With his friends dead, U7 Gohan would have on the road to becoming like U12 Gohan in terms of personality.

[Dr. Machismo]

Why does merging with a bunch of different Nameks make him different, He is just an overpowered Warrior Namek. Merging with a bunch of Nameks changes nothing. Piccolo merged with Kami who is of the Dragon Clan and yet he couldn't do any Dragon Clan techniques. Nail is the base of the fusion who is a warrior type, so that is the type of Namek Gast is. Your second argument has nothing to support how he could achieve a power level as high as P. Gohan. F. Gohan was serious when he was the only warrior left to protect earth, and he isn't that powerful at all. He was dedicated to destroying the Cyborgs and yet after all his training he didn't even reach half the power they had (and these are the Future Cyborgs who are confirmed weaker than the present one's) . He only used mountain training,possibly gravity training, and sparring with SSJ Trunks who he said would soon surpass him (Trunks was already an SSJ in the manga). That's like saying Goku could reach a power level to destroy the multi-verse in one blast which he could never achieve ever in no amount of time.

He merged with more than one Namekian, so I think there's a chance he could have abilities unique to a warrior Namekian. And even if he doesn't, there are still other ways for U7 Gohan to get that powerup. And why are you bringing up Future Gohan? I was talking about U16/U18 Gohan.

You don't understand, what i'm saying is that your idea is basically Future Gohan with more power. Me suggesting to hax the original is just to point out how your idea is basically a clone. If his personality is the exact same as U12 Gohan. Then your U7 Gohan is a clone of U12 Gohan, but stronger. Gohan's dad is also still alive so he isn't going to just go off with Gast as he doesn't like fighting. Goku could still die if Trunks never shows up to possibly set what you want up.

[/quote]

My idea isn't even exactly a clone of U12 Gohan. Sure, he has a similar appearance, personality, look and background, but that doesn't make him a clone. And if having the same personality makes him a clone, that's still not a bad thing. Gohan said himself in the Universe 7 chapter that he wanted to travel with Gast Carcohl. While he's with Gast Carcohl, the Androids strike and kill the Z Fighters on Earth, including Goku. With his friends dead, U7 Gohan would have on the road to becoming like U12 Gohan in terms of personality.[/quote]

[dbzfan7]

He merged with more than one Namekian, so I think there's a chance he could have abilities unique to a warrior Namekian. And even if he doesn't, there are still other ways for U7 Gohan to get that powerup. And why are you bringing up Future Gohan? I was talking about U16/U18 Gohan.

"Think" is not an answer. "Think" does not prove your point. Gast has yet to show anything that makes him capable of what you mentioned. You can't believe what isn't stated, shown, or even hinted at. You need a basis. Your basis is nothing but "I want Gast to be able to do this". Get a piece of evidence to support this claim or it's baseless. An argument needs facts, without facts you got nothing to prove your point. Going by your arguments I can say Gast has claustrophobia and has 100 genitals.

You haven't said how U7 Gohan could get that kind of power without the Elder Kaioshin. You need to explain how that's possible. You can't say its possible and not have any explanation. That is not how you support your points. Or else your point is just "I want Gohan to be this strong just because I want it". I Bring up Future Gohan as your saying U7 Gohan would have the same personality as U12 Gohan and determination. U12 Gohan was dedicated to his training and beating the Cyborgs, yet he still turned out weak.

My idea isn't even exactly a clone of U12 Gohan. Sure, he has a similar appearance, personality, look and background, but that doesn't make him a clone. And if having the same personality makes him a clone, that's still not a bad thing. Gohan said himself in the Universe 7 chapter that he wanted to travel with Gast Carcohl. While he's with Gast Carcohl, the Androids strike and kill the Z Fighters on Earth, including Goku. With his friends dead, U7 Gohan would have on the road to becoming like U12 Gohan in terms of personality.

U7 Gohan said he wanted to help Gast anyway he could, not travel with him. Gast wouldn't need Gohans help anyway as he is vastly stronger and doesn't need Gohan for anything. Why would Gohan leave to go with Gast when he hates fighting. After finding out he couldn't use the dragon balls Gohan would go home to his father who is currently in the hospital after the battle with Vegeta. Your idea would make more sense if Gast eventually went to earth and killed Cell as he was said to kill Cell at some point. Perhaps Gast could find Gohan then, but we don't know if Future Trunks even visited Goku or not so Gohan may keep his normal personality. If you want a Gast adventure story I suggest you look up "Gast and Palz" which is basically a comedic spin off of Universe 7.

You need to have evidence and facts to support your argument. You can't just expect everything to fit because you want it to.

[Saiga]

You're reaaaaally stretching it to make Gohan's excitement only related to Goku's return, and none of that is a fact.

[Dr. Machismo]

"Think" is not an answer. "Think" does not prove your point. Gast has yet to show anything that makes him capable of what you mentioned. You can't believe what isn't stated, shown, or even hinted at. You need a basis. Your basis is nothing but "I want Gast to be able to do this". Get a piece of evidence to support this claim or it's baseless. An argument needs facts, without facts you got nothing to prove your point.

That was my answer, though. Sir, you do not comprehend what an idea is. You're right about how we don't know much about Gast. AND THAT'S WHY I'M PROPOSING AN IDEA. Since we don't know that much about him, I have an idea on what he should be like.

You haven't said how U7 Gohan could get that kind of power without the Elder Kaioshin. You need to explain how that's possible. You can't say its possible and not have any explanation. That is not how you support your points. Or else your point is just "I want Gohan to be this strong just because I want it". I Bring up Future Gohan as your saying U7 Gohan would have the same personality as U12 Gohan and determination. U12 Gohan was dedicated to his training and beating the Cyborgs, yet he still turned out weak.

It is possible that U7 Gohan could have gotten that power without Old Kai. There could be a method that no character we know so far knows of. And I said U7 Gohan could have got the powerup from Old Kai.

U7 Gohan wouldn't have the exact same personality and determination as U12 Gohan, but they'd still be very similar. You're acting as if they're both the exact same. U12 Gohan didn't become strnog enough to beat the Androids because he never went into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber or had a master like Gast Carcohl or Goku to guide him.

U7 Gohan said he wanted to help Gast anyway he could, not travel with him. Gast wouldn't need Gohans help anyway as he is vastly stronger and doesn't need Gohan for anything. Why would Gohan leave to go with Gast when he hates fighting. After finding out he couldn't use the dragon balls Gohan would go home to his father who is currently in the hospital after the battle with Vegeta. Your idea would make more sense if Gast eventually went to earth and killed Cell as he was said to kill Cell at some point. Perhaps Gast could find Gohan then, but we don't know if Future Trunks even visited Goku or not so he would keep his normal personaility. If you want a Gast adventure story I suggest you look up "Gast and Palz" which is basically a comedic spin off of Universe 7.

Traveling with Gast could also be part of helping Gast. Gast may be vastly stronger than Gohan, but he still could have accepted Gast's help. And, uh, Gohan doesn't have to like fighting to want leave with Gast. He wouldn't know for certain if there would be fighting and at that point, Gohan probably didn't even realize that he hated fighting. He could travel with Gast for a while, train with him, return to Earth after sometime, find out that his friends are dead, and battle the Androids/Cell. Or he could have stayed on Earth and something similar to U16/U18's Android saga could happen.

You're reaaaaally stretching it to make Gohan's excitement only related to Goku's return, and none of that is a fact.

Gohan may have not only been excited to see Goku, but that was the main reason.

[dbzfan7]

That was my answer, though. Sir, you do not comprehend what an idea is. You're right about how we don't know much about Gast. AND THAT'S WHY I'M PROPOSING AN IDEA. Since we don't know that much about him, I have an idea on what he should be like.

Of course your idea can be possible as Salagir fucks up logic all the time. If he follows whats been established then your idea can't happened. Your Idea is based on Namek capabilities that are already established. You can't change what's established. Create your own race and make up your own rules that made up race. Namekians already have established how fusion works.

It is possible that U7 Gohan could have gotten that power without Old Kai. There could be a method that no character we know so far knows of. And I said U7 Gohan could have got the powerup from Old Kai.

U7 Gohan wouldn't have the exact same personality and determination as U12 Gohan, but they'd still be very similar. You're acting as if they're both the exact same. U12 Gohan didn't become strnog enough to beat the Androids because he never went into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber or had a master like Gast Carcohl or Goku to guide him.

You have yet to state how that is possible without the Old Kaioshin. Your belief has no basis. Ergo it is baseless. Gast kills Boo so there was never a need for Gohan to pull the Z Sword. So that rules out Gohan going to the Kaioshin realm. Mortals are not supposed to be allowed in the Kaioshin realm and since Boo was dealt with By Gast, Gohan would never go to the Kaioshin realm.

So how are they different and how does that make a possible U7 Gohan relevant at all. You need to make a difference. My point of using F. Gohan training is that the mountain training never did that much for him. Even with ROSAT time Gohan would still not reach the potential he has normally. Gast has no understanding of Super Saiyans so he would have no idea how to get Gohan to even transform into a SSJ3. And even if he could that would still pale in comparison to Gohans power up from the Elder Kaioshin.

Traveling with Gast could also be part of helping Gast. Gast may be vastly stronger than Gohan, but he still could have accepted Gast's help. And, uh, Gohan doesn't have to like fighting to want leave with Gast. He wouldn't know for certain if there would be fighting and at that point, Gohan probably didn't even realize that he hated fighting. He could travel with Gast for a while, train with him, return to Earth after sometime, find out that his friends are dead, and battle the Androids/Cell. Or he could have stayed on Earth and something similar to U16/U18's Android saga could happen.

What use does Gast have for Gohan? Gohan is a worthless meat bag in comparison to him and can't help him in any way, shape or form. Gohan would not abandon his father because of Gast. Gohan has always hated fighting. He loves to study and prefers it over fighting. He isn't going to leave earth for 4 years just for Gast. He is a boy. You yet to raise even a single point why anyone should care about another Gohan showing up and adding nothing.


Just go check out Gast and Palz. It's more consistent then what your coming up with. Take the time to write out everything you want and create a thread for it in the fan created works. Write down your plot, characters, ideas, and then submit it in a new thread. If you really want your idea to work, you can have forum members help you iron out inconsistencies.

[FoolsGil]

I get the feeling even if the Vargas explain, Vegetto is still going to lose it.

[hulkty]

Art is good, but the reasoning for Vegito getting that mad is the absolute stupidest thing I've seen for DBM. (storywise) ...artwise is a tie between Bojack and Bra's specials LOL

Is Vegito REALLY gonna go crazy and kill people JUST because someone didn't respond to a question? REALLY?!???? So f***ing stupid. *sighs, shakes head in disappointment, and facepalms all at once*

[miguelnuva1]

Vegito is acting in character to me. He is Vegeta and Kakarot put together and while he can hold it together and be serious I see him as the opposite of GT Gogeta. Both can be serious but Gogeta will revert to his GT self while Vegito would revert to the opposite.