Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[rereboy]

The Sun is such a violent environment that normal matter cannot exist on it. If Buu can be turned to dust by piddly li'l ki blasts, the Sun would rip him apart.

That's too much real science applied to these works of fiction.

[goku the krump dancer]

Plus that isn't really saying much since Boo can be pierced and probably ripped apart by regular bullets.

All this stuff especially when it comes to Dragon Ball characters are left up to the interpretation of the viewer, which is why so many debates take place in the fandom in the first place. Goku and co's feats are almost never clearly stated as apposed to Superman's and since the Z cast gets stronger as the series progress and the feats aren't mentioned a second time or duplicated one can only imply on what they are truly capable of.

Imo Goku's greatest speed feat is when he escaped the explosion of Freeza's paralyzing orb the INSTANT it exploded (with minor scratches), so multiply that times 400 or 4000 and what do you get? I don't know but I'm sure thats pretty damn fast.

Not to mention even though it maybe a stretch Piccolo does consider that a God like feat.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well in the strength checker Gohan can fly at speeds of Mach 15 in his base form at least. From where Gohan lives to his high school, it takes a jet 5 hours to reach. Gohan says he travels that distance in about 20 minutes. I'm sure you can do the math there but anyway, if Gohan isn't using max speed and is weaker than Goku, Goku can break speeds well over Mach 6,000 assuming speed scales linearly with power.

[Rocketman]

That's too much real science applied to these works of fiction.

Then tell them to stop going HURP DURP FORCE = MASS X VELOCITY THUS GOKU IS ELEVENTY FIVE BILLIONS SUPERNOVARS

[TheMightyOzaru]

I might be missing something here but when did anyone say Goku can punch with the force of a Supernova?

[shonenhikada]

Buuhan's not as fast as Superman

Highly debatable.

Bullshit, since Gohan-Buu couldn't get to Goku and Vegeta before they fused.

Just to point out a few things in tryting to apply real life science to fiction, which is retarded in itself.

1. The reason it took Buu so long is because it was put in place for dramatic purposes/plot base. Its the same reason why in many of these silly anime/manga battles we get drawn out conversations in the middle of an attack (clearly hypersonic), we get characters telling each other their attack abilities, people who are FTL+ being able to talk to each other while in the middle of combat (Flash vs Zoom),we even have instance when Pa kent died and superman raced at top speed, and couldn't get their in time (Superman was on Earth),and yet in other instance when Luthor he heard Lex Luthor was going to be president he raced from Jupiter to Earth in 1/2 hr, flash moving at FTL speeds gets tripped by Deathstroke using a power pole, Flash moving at FTL speed gets stabbed in the chest by stationary Deathstroke.

2. Combat speed does not equal travel speed. This has been stressed in so many fictional verses. Example, Human torch is faster than spiderman in travel speed. Yet, spiderman could blitz johnny storm in combat situations. It is like a car, it needs a certain amount of distance to cover before reaching top speed,but in combat you don't get that kind of distance. In the words of Batman "Who wins in a fight clark Usian Bolt, or Bruce Lee".


3. Also DB characters travel speed=/= combat speed/ reaction time. Evident by the fact that Roshi can grab machine gun bullets with his bare hands. Yet, can only run 100 m in like 9.86 seconds, which is slower than Usian Bolt.

[miguelnuva1]

Superman also mentally blocks his own power not to hurt innocents I believe.

DBZ characters hold back so they don't destroy the planet. If bloodlust is off completely then Superman won't care about destroying innocents.

Not to the level superman does.

[RandomGuy96]

Buuhan not being able to reach Vegeta and Goku is VERY obvious PIS, considering the monumentally weaker base Namek Saga Goku went from one side of the planet to the other in a second, Piccolo was throwing out light speed blasts in the early Saiyan Saga (and then was surprised when Vegeta later manages to dodge Freeza's massively FTL blasts), Gotenks was able to go around the Earth several times in five seconds, et cetera. We shouldn't take it as any more legitimate than, say, Deathstroke skewering the Flash.

Until I see some better feats, I have no real reason to believe that Superman would beat Buuhan. Superman must have some feats or statements that have his most powerful attack over a supernova, right? I'm 99% sure that he does. Because solar system busting and supernova-level power is something SS2 Vegeta can do, and he's dozens if not hundreds of times weaker than Buuhan.

[Rocketman]

You are so full of incorrectness. There is not a single solitary goddamn piece of evidence that anybody can travel at the speed of light (besides Goku's Instant Transmission).

Gotenks circling the planet several times in five seconds means he's not even 1/4th lightspeed. Also it wasn't five seconds, more like five minutes.

Also that whole scene where Instant Transmission was introduced.

[Kamiccolo9]

Buuhan not being able to reach Vegeta and Goku is VERY obvious PIS, considering the monumentally weaker base Namek Saga Goku went from one side of the planet to the other in a second, Piccolo was throwing out light speed blasts in the early Saiyan Saga (and then was surprised when Vegeta later manages to dodge Freeza's massively FTL blasts), Gotenks was able to go around the Earth several times in five seconds, et cetera. We shouldn't take it as any more legitimate than, say, Deathstroke skewering the Flash.

Until I see some better feats, I have no real reason to believe that Superman would beat Buuhan. Superman must have some feats or statements that have his most powerful attack over a supernova, right? I'm 99% sure that he does. Because solar system busting and supernova-level power is something SS2 Vegeta can do, and he's dozens if not hundreds of times weaker than Buuhan.

Why are you demanding feats from Superman, yet saying that Buuhan could beat him based on some guy's math? If you compare feats, Buuhan has nothing that puts him anywhere near Superman.

And I'm assuming that you're talking about Deathstroke taking on the Justice League in Identity Crisis. Deathstroke had already played out that entire fight in his head, and is a master at predicting opponents movements. He has 90% of his brain capacity; he can do that.


How do you know that Freeza's blasts were faster than light? How do you know Piccolo's were? If they were faster than light, why couldn't Goku save everyone when Buu destroyed Earth? Why couldn't he have teleported Cell, picked up Kaio and Bubbles, and teleported back?

[goku the krump dancer]

Well when Freeza killed Dende, Piccolo described it as a simple flash of light then BANG, the little namekian healer was deader than a doornail.

Vegeta was the only one able to see them and Goku could deflect them. Then as a Super Saiyan he could Dodge them and even take one to the face.

[rereboy]

That's too much real science applied to these works of fiction.

Then tell them to stop going HURP DURP FORCE = MASS X VELOCITY THUS GOKU IS ELEVENTY FIVE BILLIONS SUPERNOVARS

If only was that simple.

[RandomGuy96]

Why are you demanding feats from Superman, yet saying that Buuhan could beat him based on some guy's math? If you compare feats, Buuhan has nothing that puts him anywhere near Superman.

It's not just some guy's math, it's the feat of Goku going from one side of the planet to the other in a second, among other things. I'd like to hear statements saying that Superman is that strong or fast as well, like in the Death Battle video where they said that Batman estimated his maximum speed as greater than the one Death Battle gave him. Again, does he have any?

Of course Buuhan doesn't have many feats, because he didn't really have any reason to show off any power in the context of the story (unless you count him nearly collapsing the universe in filler), but he is known to be several dozens, if not hundreds, of times stronger than Cell, someone the guidebooks confirmed is a solar system buster, and is also known to be thousands of times stronger than Namek Goku, who went from one side of an Earth-sized planet to the other in a second.

And I'm assuming that you're talking about Deathstroke taking on the Justice League in Identity Crisis. Deathstroke had already played out that entire fight in his head, and is a master at predicting opponents movements. He has 90% of his brain capacity; he can do that.

The Flash is FASTER THAN LIGHT. To get hit by Deathstroke, Deathstroke would either have to have his sword moving at FTL speeds (with Deathstroke himself having nanonsecond reactions) or the Flash would have to jump on what to him would be a stationary object.

How do you know that Freeza's blasts were faster than light? How do you know Piccolo's were? If they were faster than light, why couldn't Goku save everyone when Buu destroyed Earth? Why couldn't he have teleported Cell, picked up Kaio and Bubbles, and teleported back?

Go watch/read the scene where Piccolo blows up the moon. In video, it takes a second. On panel, he raises his hand, and in the next panel, the moon blows up.

[VegettoEX]

What determines how long the time period is between panels? Is it the same from panel to panel across the entire manga? Unlikely. Do you have to make it up as you go along? Probably.

See: entire previous discussion about "cinematic time".

[Hellspawn28]

Piccolo was throwing out light speed blasts in the early Saiyan Saga

People still think Piccolo's Makankosappo is faster then light? That line was only in the early DBZ dub with the ocean voice cast. I remember they edit that line out when Funi did the whole Ultimate Uncut thing back in 2005.

[RandomGuy96]

I was talking about his moon buster.

@Vegetto: the manga might be debatable, but in the anime, which Death Battle used as well, it was explicitly shown to take less than a second to reach the moon. See also Roshi doing the same thing. Goku going from one side of the planet to the other in under a second is also pretty clear, unless you assume that either the panels are out of order for no reason or everyone sat in their same poses, never moving while Goku flew to their position.

[rereboy]

Go watch/read the scene where Piccolo blows up the moon. In video, it takes a second. On panel, he raises his hand, and in the next panel, the moon blows up.

The same scene that shows the moon blowing up and the resulting explosion being immediately visible on Earth, even though it would only be possible for the explosion to be seen on Earth when the light of the explosion (traveling at light speed) reached Earth? The distance between Earth and the moon is great enough for light to not reach us immediately from there so, just the fact that the light of the explosion apparently did, shows us how little thought went into such matters when that scene was made. Trying to come up with a conclusion out of things like that won't produce plausible or accurate results.

Besides, we don't even know how DB's moon compares to the real moon. Earth's continents and other things are completely different in Dragon Ball compared to our own. Why should the moon be exactly alike? It could be much closer to Earth or be much smaller, which would explain how someone relatively weak like Roshi is able to blow it up (and how the moon's destruction didn't create at least as much chaos on the planet as would the destruction of the real moon on ours in real life).

[The Monkey King]

Super Buu with Gotenks absorbed punched Gohan's ki blast so hard it went through the planet, that's a pretty good feat

Imo the only Dragon Ball characters that could give Superman a good fight are: Super Vegito, Janemba, Buuhan, Birusu, Whis and Super Saiyan God Goku.

What would you guys think if Goku joined the Justice League and trained with them etc?
I think it would be pretty cool

[rereboy]

What would you guys think if Goku joined the Justice League and trained with them etc?
I think it would be pretty cool

He would be definitely one of the strongest if not the strongest besides Superman. So, of course he would be a huge help to them. However, I think he would also annoy them somewhat with his personality. Hmm batman and goku interactions...

[Kakarot88]

Besides, we don't even know how DB's moon compares to the real moon.

Well, actually at the back of one of the Takoubon Dragon Ball Manga's in response to a fan letter Toriyama-sensei did say the moon in Dragon Ball was the same distance from Earth as he believed our moon was which is around 380,000km.



Here is Kanzenshuu's link for said reference: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/tankobon/vol-09/

Hope that helps.


Granted I am sure you could still argue that does not mean we know if the moon's durability is the same as the real moon, and that it does appear physically different because the rabbit gang and Goku appeared to be breathing there and there were no horrific tidal consequences due to its loss in 2 different instances as well as its random return after Piccolo destroys it blah blah blah...


the point I think the other person was trying to make was merely that the beam appeared to cover that distance instantaneously as Gohan was going to kill him and the panels show him fire and instant explosion. But sure arguably we can throw common sense out the window and say Piccolo was chilling for a good long while maybe even an hour and then it blew up