Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Considering how strong Freeza is supposed to be now, it makes more sense.
Yeah but based on the poster I doubt that'll happen and the trailer shows him and Whis just watching from space so it doesn't look like they have any intention to step in.
In terms of what makes sense the only thing that will is Vegeta being the one who kills him.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
VegettoEX wrote:For serious. We're not going to ask again: take your battle power arguments elsewhere. You can make a new thread. That's fine. But not here.
I made a topic just for it. I understand if you close it or keep it open. I figured it'll clean a lot of power debates in this topic.
Redirect all your power numbers to here please?
Herms wrote:Just 44 days left until the movie’s premiere!
Today we’ve got a comment from the voice of Kuririn, Mayumi Tanaka![/b]
Tanaka: Goku’s fighting scenes in the film were at such a mad pace that Nozawa had to practically tear through the script (laughs). It was a real highlight.
I hope the kids enjoy the fun battles, so as far as Kuririn goes, there’s always how he’s the strongest Earthling. In the movie Kuririn gets asked who he is, and it felt good to shoot back with “I’m an Earthling”. Since on Earth Kuririn is strongest. Not Satan, you know (laughs)
Krillin the strongest earthling, what a joke lol
Krillin has been the strongest Earthling since the Grand Elder unlocked his latent potential on Namek. There is nothing humorous about that considering his wife is above regular SSj level. That, & the official website confirms it once again. No human can catch up to him except Tenshinhan if he decides to be smarter about his training and not train with Chaozu of all people in the boonies lol.
VegettoEX wrote:For serious. We're not going to ask again: take your battle power arguments elsewhere. You can make a new thread. That's fine. But not here.
I made a topic just for it. I understand if you close it or keep it open. I figured it'll clean a lot of power debates in this topic.
Redirect all your power numbers to here please?
dbzfan7 wrote:If Toriyama doesn't like doing the obvious, then Vegeta may not defeat Freeza.
Vegeta defeating Freeza isn't obvious cause he never defeated a min villain in the manga or movies/Gt.
Promotion is making it obvious at this point. At this point anyone could see Vegeta being the hero from a mile away. It wouldn't be so obvious, if the trailers didn't practically scream "Goku is down, and Vegeta is the only one left who can do it." They still may go the Vegeta route at this point, but if they didn't want Vegeta being the obvious hero, then they're doing a poor job at hiding that fact.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Considering how strong Freeza is supposed to be now, it makes more sense.
It's why I'm expecting the conclusion or at least some part of the movie be Beerus vs Freeza. If Toriyama doesn't like doing the obvious, then Vegeta may not defeat Freeza as promotion is making that ending predictable.
Considering how Toriyama does fake outs, I could see that happening or no one possibly beating Freeza.
I kinda hope him and Whis play the neutrality card. It would be too cliche, too safe, too well-worn for them to both become outright allies. I like the idea of them serving as narrative devices to further the plot, or even mentor Goku and Vegeta - but adding them to the good-guy roster? That would be so... boring.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
Considering how strong Freeza is supposed to be now, it makes more sense.
It's why I'm expecting the conclusion or at least some part of the movie be Beerus vs Freeza. If Toriyama doesn't like doing the obvious, then Vegeta may not defeat Freeza as promotion is making that ending predictable.
Considering how Toriyama does fake outs, I could see that happening or no one possibly beating Freeza.
I kinda hope him and Whis play the neutrality card. It would be too cliche, too safe, too well-worn for them to both become outright allies. I like the idea of them serving as narrative devices to further the plot, or even mentor Goku and Vegeta - but adding them to the good-guy roster? That would be so... boring.
I can see Beerus showing up cause he said he wanted to kill Freeza. Ironically he has more drive than Goku or Vegeta to do it. Goku doesn't like killing needlessly, and Vegeta is passed Freeza according to himself. Beerus is the only one who said he wanted to kill Freeza.
I'd love to see Whis fight and end it. I just want to see the strongest guy in the universe fight.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:Promotion is making it obvious at this point. At this point anyone could see Vegeta being the hero from a mile away. It wouldn't be so obvious, if the trailers didn't practically scream "Goku is down, and Vegeta is the only one left who can do it."
With it being a big part of the story they can't keep it hidden until the movie is out and they aren't outright saying in the trailers that he's the hero but they have to at least give hints and excite people about it the way they're doing.
dbzfan7 wrote:I'd love to see Whis fight and end it. I just want to see the strongest guy in the universe fight.
He'd probably kill him with one hit so it won't be much of a fight.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
dbzfan7 wrote:Promotion is making it obvious at this point. At this point anyone could see Vegeta being the hero from a mile away. It wouldn't be so obvious, if the trailers didn't practically scream "Goku is down, and Vegeta is the only one left who can do it."
With it being a big part of the story they can't keep it hidden until the movie is out and they aren't outright saying in the trailers that he's the hero but they have to at least give hints and excite people about it the way they're doing.
Sure they can. Simply not have Vegeta in much better shape than Goku. By having what seems to be a mirror of the namek arc with Goku and Vegeta switching places, they've spelled out a predictable ending if Vegeta simply wins. It's not even a little hint, it's screaming right in your ear a possible predictable conclusion. If Vegeta won in Battle of Gods, that'd be unpredictable as nothing from the trailers hints to that. Nothing from the trailers hinted that Goku was defeated that I'm aware of. Here it seems that if Vegeta wins, no one will be surprised, cause the trailers spelled it out for everyone.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:If Toriyama doesn't like doing the obvious, then Vegeta may not defeat Freeza.
Vegeta defeating Freeza isn't obvious cause he never defeated a min villain in the manga or movies/Gt.
Promotion is making it obvious at this point. At this point anyone could see Vegeta being the hero from a mile away. It wouldn't be so obvious, if the trailers didn't practically scream "Goku is down, and Vegeta is the only one left who can do it." They still may go the Vegeta route at this point, but if they didn't want Vegeta being the obvious hero, then they're doing a poor job at hiding that fact.
Toei has been shit at promoting their movies anyway, I mean who in their right mind would reveal Goku's and Freeza's forms in a trailer? That's something that should be revealed in the film itself. Same goes with their One Piece films, they end up adding so many cuts of the final scenes in their trailers, and I hate it.
SaiyanZ wrote:Toei has been shit at promoting their movies anyway, I mean who in their right mind would reveal Goku's and Freeza's forms in a trailer? That's something that should be revealed in the film itself. Same goes with their One Piece films, they end up adding so many cuts of the final scenes in their trailers, and I hate it.
Which is why if they are, they may be ruining the surprise if Vegeta was supposed to win. It's now become a predictable conclusion now that the newest trailer practically screams Vegeta as the only one left who can win. So if Toriyama wanted to be unpredictable here, the marketing staff screwed him over as now the ending is predictable if it happens. They didn't screw Toriyama's ending with Battle of Gods, so I think it's possible Vegeta might be a fake out for the gods, or maybe something from the 11 universes. Or as a gag, Jaco's bomb.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Just curious to people who believe so. I'm not trying to debate opinions... well I am but...
How would killing Freeza bring closure to Vegeta from two view points. An in universe viewpoint and OUTSIDE the universe?
In universe: I doubt Vegeta cares about Freeza making him his bitch since Vegeta would do the same had situations been reversed. Goku plays more of a factor in Vegeta life than Freeza ever did.
Out of universe: Is killing Freeza(even with the Golden Ticket power up) a big deal? Debate canon all you want. But we've seen Freeza killed (Or almost killed) by Goku, Trunks, Gohan, Pikkon, Goku(again), and Vegeta (Video game as a SSJ during PTETSSJ). Would Vegeta (if prediction is correct that Vegeta wins and not a 2v1 win) winning be special or a feel good moment? It'll be just another man that killed Freeza. Another man who beat Freeza.
kidhero1000 wrote:God here is hoping the next movie redeems Gohan by having him be the hero.
Wishful thinking. That boat has sailed. I just hope he at the very least gets something redeemable as a side character. Which is unlikely since this movie will probably go the Movie 3 route with everyone getting their asses kicked by mooks, and Goku/Vegeta has to save them. Did anyone really appreciate that in Movie 3? If Gohan and Piccolo are down, no way in hell can anyone else beat the army. Which means the only way they won't die is if they capture them for no reason, or they are saved by Goku and/or Vegeta.
FutureGohanSSJ2 wrote:Or we can all move past him, accept the fact that he is now a family man and has no real intention of fighting (he in fact hates it), and move on.
Plenty of times occurred where he could let anyone else fight for him, but choose not to. Like letting Goku or Vegeta handle Dabura since he hates fighting so much obviously.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Of course they can but from a business stand point it doesn't make sense cause they know fans have wanted to see Vegeta have a big role for years so giving hints will get more people to go see it and with them wanting it to make more then the last then they need everyone they can get and keep in mind Toriyama has nothing to do with the way it's marketed so him wanted to surprise people with it doesn't mean Toie does.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
Of course they can but from a business stand point it doesn't make sense cause they know fans have wanted to see Vegeta have a big role for years so giving hints will get more people to go see it and with them wanting it to make more then the last then they need everyone they can get and keep in mind Toriyama has nothing to do with the way it's marketed so him wanted to surprise people with it doesn't mean Toie does.
No way to know. If Toriyama truly likes betraying expectations, he no longer is doing that here. It's not betraying expectations if we all know how it's going to end.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
FutureGohanSSJ2 wrote:Or we can all move past him, accept the fact that he is now a family man and has no real intention of fighting (he in fact hates it), and move on.
Plenty of times occurred where he could let anyone else fight for him, but choose not to. Like letting Goku or Vegeta handle Dabura since he hates fighting so much obviously.
...except that was his responsibility and he was trying to get payback for the way they f*cked up Videl.
dbzfan7 wrote:If Toriyama truly likes betraying expectations, he no longer is doing that here. It's not betraying expectations if we all know how it's going to end.
It's not a manga so Toriyama has no say in what's revealed to the public and keep in mind that us knowing about Vegeta taking Freeza down and Goku losing doesn't mean we know everything about the movie.
Why is Whis training Goku&Vegeta ?
How did Freeza beat Goku ?
Does Vegeta kill Freeza ?
What's that ring Togoma is using ?
How did Some henchman beat Gohan ?
Why is Piccolo having trouble with a henchman ?
Why don't Beerus and Whis help them ?
That's just what I can think of and I'm sure there are more.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
