Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

No

Which just the statement even more bizarre. Kaioshin has no fucking clue at all as to how strong Beerus is. So for him to make that assumption is just dumb.

We don't know if he has or not seen his full power but since he's making a comparison about Beerus power, my money is that he indeed has seen it.

That, or he has a good read on how much Beerus suppresses his power to know what his full might is.

[Legion]

No

Which just the statement even more bizarre. Kaioshin has no fucking clue at all as to how strong Beerus is. So for him to make that assumption is just dumb.

We don't know if he has or not seen his full power but since he's making a comparison about Beerus power, my money is that he indeed has seen it.

Not sure about this, since in BoG arc was surprised by Beerus power and he thought that he used all his power against Goku.

[Bullza]

DBZGTKOSH explained it in detail a few pages back but the gist of it is that Black was a Saiyan beyond God because his SSR wasn't dozens of times stronger than SSB Vegeta as it should be if he had just a regular base.

That wouldn't make any sense. For one they already made it clear the reason why Black was so strong in Base was so strong was because he was exploiting Zenkai's. That's why his Super Saiyan was so strong too.

Then there's that Super Saiyan God Goku took Trunks out with a single kick being that Trunks is only equal to Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

But the same Trunks was able to withstand several attacks from Black and even force him backwards.

[ZombieVito]

DBZGTKOSH explained it in detail a few pages back but the gist of it is that Black was a Saiyan beyond God because his SSR wasn't dozens of times stronger than SSB Vegeta as it should be if he had just a regular base.

That wouldn't make any sense. For one they already made it clear the reason why Black was so strong in Base was so strong was because he was exploiting Zenkai's. That's why his Super Saiyan was so strong too.

Then there's that Super Saiyan God Goku took Trunks out with a single kick being that Trunks is only equal to Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

But the same Trunks was able to withstand several attacks from Black and even force him backwards.

It's makes perfect sense actually. Those Zenkai's weren't increasing the power of Goku's body that Black stole. They were unlocking the power that Black could use from that body. You have to remember that it was confirmed that Goku and Vegeta can no longer receive power boosts by Zenkai's.

Since Black was already stronger than SSJ3 Goku in base then the only explanation would be for him to be a Saiyan beyond God, confirming that Goku can access god power in base.

That's the reason is SSR is not dozens of times stronger than SSB.

[jeffbr92]

Vegetto being stronger or on pair with Beerus in the manga could also apply to the anime?

[Triggered Vegeta]

Vegetto being stronger or on pair with Beerus in the manga could also apply to the anime?

How does Beerus(Anime) compare to Beerus(Manga)... if there is no difference in strength... then I think you could, not sure tho.

[Bullza]

Since Black was already stronger than SSJ3 Goku in base then the only explanation would be for him to be a Saiyan beyond God, confirming that Goku can access god power in base.

Black being a combination of Goku and Zamasu could give him a different amount of potential that allows zenkai to boost him up further.

Saiyan Beyond God isn't even a thing in the manga. For Goku it's still treated as a separate transformation and not part of his body at all times so when Zamasu took over Goku then he wouldn't have just had that power in his Base like that.

He'd also be way too weak to be a Saiyan Beyond God.

Super Saiyan God was superior to the powered up Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta who was superior to Super Saiyan Black who was superior to Base Black.

If he were a Saiyan Beyond God he wouldn't even turn into the regular Super Saiyan, he'd just be Rose from the start but he said he couldnt. He was only noted to have surpassed Super Saiyan God after getting that final zenkai and then powering up even further.

That's the reason is SSR is not dozens of times stronger than SSB.

Well I don't think Super Saiyan Blue/Rose works like that anyway. I don't think it's any kind of multiplier where just because Base Black is like 500 times as strong as Base Goku that it means SSJR Black would be 500 times as strong as SSJB Goku.

Super Saiyan Black did not surpass Super Saiyan God hence why he was still Blonde originally. After receiving that Zenkai, it pushed his strength enough that it surpassed the Super Saiyan strength barrier and was why he turned Rose.

The Zenkai boost just pushed Black further above the Super Saiyan God barrier than what Goku was at.

I don't think I explained that as well I'd like but I know what I'm trying to say.

[ZombieVito]

Black being a combination of Goku and Zamasu could give him a different amount of potential that allows zenkai to boost him up further.

That was never said or implied though.

Black said that he couldn't gain all of Goku's power immediately after taking his body. He needed to drawn out Goku's latent power by abusing Zenkia's.

And why wouldn't Blue be a multiplier?

[Bullza]

Black said that he couldn't gain all of Goku's power immediately after taking his body. He needed to drawn out Goku's latent power by abusing Zenkia's.

Did he? I can't remember that, I'll have to double check the chapter now the Viz scanlator are out too.

And why wouldn't Blue be a multiplier?

Well Super Saiyan God is sort of its own separate power source. The Ki they normally have in their Base and Super Saiyan forms all comes from themselves but Super Saiyan God was a power they obtained.

That two Base theory is that they can freely switch between these two sources of power to change their strength.

So even if Base Black's own Ki surpasses Goku's Ki by hundreds of times, that same difference doesn't have to apply when they use a different source of power which is the God Ki.

[ZombieVito]

Black said that he couldn't gain all of Goku's power immediately after taking his body. He needed to drawn out Goku's latent power by abusing Zenkia's.

Did he? I can't remember that, I'll have to double check the chapter now the Viz scanlator are out too.

And why wouldn't Blue be a multiplier?

Well Super Saiyan God is sort of its own separate power source. The Ki they normally have in their Base and Super Saiyan forms all comes from themselves but Super Saiyan God was a power they obtained.

That two Base theory is that they can freely switch between these two sources of power to change their strength.

So even if Base Black's own Ki surpasses Goku's Ki by hundreds of times, that same difference doesn't have to apply when they use a different source of power which is the God Ki.

Yes, he did. Once Black finally got 100% of Goku's power is when he turned pink. Funny thing that I noticed is that Black's last power up wasn't a Zenkai in the anime, it was through anger. I suppose he reached the limit from Zenkai's in episode 61. With a few exceptions everything fits between anime and manga.

I guess you do have a point about the multiplier but I feel it could go either way. I'll continue to use one to save me the headache.

[Sora Saiyan]

Has Shin ever seen Beerus at full power?

Well it's hard to say. We know in the manga he never thought Beerus was using his full power angainst SSJG Goku, and Beerus even confirms he wasn't going all out. The only other instance we really get in the manga is the fight that Beerus and Champa had a long time ago, if Shin was around he very likely would've been able to sense that, and I'd say they were both closer to going all out there, so there is the possibility that he's sensed close to Beerus full power in the manga.

[ryan s]

I love how everyone just becomes a fanboy and assumes vegetto is stronger.... "perhaps" meaning he could be weaker or he could be even or he could be stronger, the difference in power must be very very small regardless

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I love how everyone just becomes a fanboy and assumes vegetto is stronger.... "perhaps" meaning he could be weaker or he could be even or he could be stronger, the difference in power must be very very small regardless

This is sounding A LOT like "Perhaps even stronger than SS4!" Vegetto back in the day.

[Birusu16]

Too many people are taking this statement to mean Vegetto >>> Beerus.

No, it means the two are comparable. He didn't say his power has surpassed Beerus. He said "perhaps" it did, which means he was unsure.

And the statement is extremely questionable anyway considering it's coming from a guy who completely lacks credibility. He's the same guy who thought Pui Pui was a threat and there's no evidence he even knows of Beerus' full strength.

[TheMikado]

Too many people are taking this statement to mean Vegetto >>> Beerus.

No, it means the two are comparable. He didn't say his power has surpassed Beerus. He said "perhaps" it did, which means he was unsure.

And the statement is extremely questionable anyway considering it's coming from a guy who completely lacks credibility. He's the same guy who thought Pui Pui was a threat and there's no evidence he even knows of Beerus' full strength.

Vegetto just being comparable to Beerus for real this time would be a huge accomplishment. Especially when we have something like SSB x KK x 10 in the anime.

[Birusu16]

Too many people are taking this statement to mean Vegetto >>> Beerus.

No, it means the two are comparable. He didn't say his power has surpassed Beerus. He said "perhaps" it did, which means he was unsure.

And the statement is extremely questionable anyway considering it's coming from a guy who completely lacks credibility. He's the same guy who thought Pui Pui was a threat and there's no evidence he even knows of Beerus' full strength.

Vegetto just being comparable to Beerus for real this time would be a huge accomplishment. Especially when we have something like SSB x KK x 10 in the anime.

Except the manga and anime don't mesh. It's either one or the other. You can't take attributes from one continuity and place it into another. So if you take manga Vegetto being comparable to manga Beerus then SSB/KK don't exist as that never took place in the manga continuity. Pretty much the same should you take the anime as your primary source of canon. There's no statement from that continuity placing Vegetto at Beerus' level, but there is SSB/KK. All in all, this statement would only apply for the Beerus in the manga continuity.

And this is all assuming that the statement is even credible, which I'm not inclined to believe considering who it's coming from.

[Faisal Shourov]

No

Which just the statement even more bizarre. Kaioshin has no fucking clue at all as to how strong Beerus is. So for him to make that assumption is just dumb.

We don't know if he has or not seen his full power but since he's making a comparison about Beerus power, my money is that he indeed has seen it.

Why would Beerus show his true power to a fodder like Kaioshin? Only people in the multiverse who are comparable to Beerus are the other hakaishin, angels and Zeno.

[ryan s]

Beerus has to be this strong in the anime too! otherwise if kaioken x20 surpasses Beerus in the anime, there is no way that could happen in the manga as Beerus would be around Vegetto level who would easily be over 400x stronger than SSB Goku

[emperior]

Funny thing that I noticed is that Black's last power up wasn't a Zenkai in the anime, it was through anger. I suppose he reached the limit from Zenkai's in episode 61.

Did Black even get Zenkais in the anime? It seemed more like he was able to maximize Saiyan's abilities to get stronger throughout battles, but even then it was only something that happened while he specifically fought Goku because he was shown powering-up only after or during his fights with Goku. Future Zamasu also stated while they were chilling in their house during the day, while drinking his tea, that Black was using Goku as a tool to get more powerful.

Only in the manga Black effectively gets Zenkais.

[ekrolo2]

Funny thing that I noticed is that Black's last power up wasn't a Zenkai in the anime, it was through anger. I suppose he reached the limit from Zenkai's in episode 61.

Did Black even get Zenkais in the anime? It seemed more like he was able to maximize Saiyan's abilities to get stronger throughout battles, but even then it was only something that happened while he specifically fought Goku because he was shown powering-up only after or during his fights with Goku. Future Zamasu also stated while they were chilling in their house during the day, while drinking his tea, that Black was using Goku as a tool to get more powerful.

Only in the manga Black effectively gets Zenkais.

It's not Zenkai, he powers up from fighting people stronger than him which draw out Goku's power. Goku himself gives him the biggest increase since I assume Black's body remembers it's past abilities by fighting itself.