Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Lord Beerus]

So in the manga, it seems as though SSJB Goku was able to blast a hole straight through Merged Zamasu and Base Vegetto was able to blow off his right arm completely and tear off a good chunk of Merged Zamasu's torso from what seemed to be a Final Kamehameha-type blast.

Did Goku and Vegetto suddenly get really strong or is Merged Zamasu not that powerful to begin with?

[MisteryOne]

So in the manga, it seems as though SSJB Goku was able to blast a hole straight through Merged Zamasu and Base Vegetto was able to blow off his right arm completely and tear off a good chunk of Merged Zamasu's torso from what seemed to be a Final Kamehameha-type blast.

Did Goku and Vegetto suddenly get really strong or is Merged Zamasu not that powerful to begin with?

Merged Zamasu should not be a lot more stronger than Black to begin with, despite the anime inflating his power for no reason. Goku damaging him can make sense, but Vegetto must be a hell lot stronger for whatever reason (Senzu bean and Vegeta not being dead like last time? Its so stupid it hurts, but its the only way I can make sense of it)

[Khin]

So in the manga, it seems as though SSJB Goku was able to blast a hole straight through Merged Zamasu and Base Vegetto was able to blow off his right arm completely and tear off a good chunk of Merged Zamasu's torso from what seemed to be a Final Kamehameha-type blast.

Did Goku and Vegetto suddenly get really strong or is Merged Zamasu not that powerful to begin with?

I guess you could say that Zamasu’s immortality causes him to become overly confident and reckless, and as a result often lets his guard down (something that was also pointed out in the anime).

[GodKaio-Ken]

So in the manga, it seems as though SSJB Goku was able to blast a hole straight through Merged Zamasu and Base Vegetto was able to blow off his right arm completely and tear off a good chunk of Merged Zamasu's torso from what seemed to be a Final Kamehameha-type blast.

Did Goku and Vegetto suddenly get really strong or is Merged Zamasu not that powerful to begin with?

Well honestly I thought Black was a bit stronger than Goku/Vegeta but Future Zamasu was quite weaker than both. His immortality allowed him to compete IMO.

So it actually isnt shocking a Goku/Vegeta fusion would be stronger.

[ZombieVito]

Funny thing that I noticed is that Black's last power up wasn't a Zenkai in the anime, it was through anger. I suppose he reached the limit from Zenkai's in episode 61.

Did Black even get Zenkais in the anime? It seemed more like he was able to maximize Saiyan's abilities to get stronger throughout battles, but even then it was only something that happened while he specifically fought Goku because he was shown powering-up only after or during his fights with Goku. Future Zamasu also stated while they were chilling in their house during the day, while drinking his tea, that Black was using Goku as a tool to get more powerful.

Only in the manga Black effectively gets Zenkais.

You actually have a good point. It's same concept but different execution. I love it.

He did say he felt stronger after fighting Vegeta for the first time. At least in the sub I watched.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Funny thing that I noticed is that Black's last power up wasn't a Zenkai in the anime, it was through anger. I suppose he reached the limit from Zenkai's in episode 61.

Did Black even get Zenkais in the anime? It seemed more like he was able to maximize Saiyan's abilities to get stronger throughout battles, but even then it was only something that happened while he specifically fought Goku because he was shown powering-up only after or during his fights with Goku. Future Zamasu also stated while they were chilling in their house during the day, while drinking his tea, that Black was using Goku as a tool to get more powerful.

Only in the manga Black effectively gets Zenkais.

You actually have a good point. It's same concept but different execution. I love it.

He did say he felt stronger after fighting Vegeta for the first time. At least in the sub I watched.

It wasn't limited to Goku. They pointed out his keeping Goku around because he was the only mortal who could challenge Black enough to increase his skills. Also on some level it may have helped him adjust to the body but I dont think that was stated.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

It wasn't limited to Goku. They pointed out his keeping Goku around because he was the only mortal who could challenge Black enough to increase his skills. Also on some level it may have helped him adjust to the body but I dont think that was stated.

The anime seems to imply something along the lines of this happened after Goku Black fought Goku in the present. Maybe that's how he achieved Super Saiyan Rose?

[TheMikado]

So in the manga, it seems as though SSJB Goku was able to blast a hole straight through Merged Zamasu and Base Vegetto was able to blow off his right arm completely and tear off a good chunk of Merged Zamasu's torso from what seemed to be a Final Kamehameha-type blast.

Did Goku and Vegetto suddenly get really strong or is Merged Zamasu not that powerful to begin with?

Zamasu is really weak in the manga and there's no "rival boost". It probably just looks really weak compared to the boost Vegetto got. Plus I doubt Merged Zamasu is really being careful at this point.

[Bullza]

Like I said before the Merged Zamasu in the manga is most likely the equivalent of the Merged Zamasu with the Halo in the anime.

Significantly stronger than SSJB Goku and Vegeta but pitiful compared to SSJB Vegito. In the anime he powered up twice when he did the Light of Justice and called upon the power of that purple rift and then when pulled a Cell and Bulked up.

That at least allowed him to put up a fight against Vegito in the anime but not here.

So if Trunks does beat (god forbid he actually does something) then it'll probably be more believable than in the anime.

[SansrivaaL]

Only way I'll be fine with Trunks beating this guy is if Goku and Vegeta pins him down for God knows how and Trunks delivers a stab, but just Trunks on a 1v1 against Merged Zamasu? no! delete that. It would actually be funny if Merged Zamasu defuses

[DBZ Macky]

So, is Base Vegetto comparable to SSB Goku? He could even be stronger than him if we go by how much damage he did. Unless Vegetto is a "Saiyan Beyond God".

[SansrivaaL]

I'm still confused, wasnt Goku unable to push himself back into SSJB because of performing the mafuuba on Zamasu? how was he able to turn back into blue again against merged Zamasu? and he was putting up a better fight than Vegeta, Zamasu landed a hit on Vegeta and he instantly went out of blue and back to base, while Goku was tanking shits from him here and there and was even able blow a hole through him, either Merged Zamasu was using 50% on Goku and 100% on Vegeta or its still Goku>Vegeta which is weird.

[Abra kadabra]

Goku shouldnt have been able to turn blue after the mafuba. Goku shouldn't have been able to put a hole in Merged zamasu considering black was already way stronger than Goku considering what he did to Vegeta pre ssjgod fanfic writing. Base Vegito also shouldn't have been able to damage Merged zamasu like that since base Vegito is weaker than ssb Goku. Saying Zamasu had his guard down is a weak defense. There's still the whole ssj2 Vegeta > base Black > ssj2 trunks = ssj3 Goku contradictory mess. The power scaling isn't better in the manga.

[Basako]

So in the manga, it seems as though SSJB Goku was able to blast a hole straight through Merged Zamasu and Base Vegetto was able to blow off his right arm completely and tear off a good chunk of Merged Zamasu's torso from what seemed to be a Final Kamehameha-type blast.

Did Goku and Vegetto suddenly get really strong or is Merged Zamasu not that powerful to begin with?

Goku and Vegetto didn't get suddenly strong, they are strong. Merged Zamasu is very powerfull too, more than Goku for sure. He is probably a bit careless about defending himself, because he knows he is immortal and can regenerate.

Strong techniques can make a lot of damage to way stronger opponents, like Krilin's Kiezan to Freezer. If Krilin hadn't missed, he could have cut his head off and beat him. Same with Nappa, he almost killed him.

[perucho1990]

Vegetto stomping Merged Zamasu in the manga makes sense because in the anime Merged Zamasu got a powerup with the Lights of Justice and the main reason he was even with Vegetto before he transformed into his bulked form.

If Vegetto is really Hakaishin level than Genkidama Trunks has more raw strength than a Hakaishin because he 2 shotted Merged Zamasu, but in the other aspects the Hakaishins would still be above Genkidama Trunks.

With the latest episodes of DBS telling us Strategy/teamwork/tactics are >> Raw strength, the Hakaishin would defeat Genkidama Trunks due to experience and speed.

Trunks was as fast as Merged Zamasu, who Vegetto recalled being slow.

[Bullza]

Aside from Base Goku fighting Beerus and Gotenks, is there anything else since the start of the Universe 6 saga that outright proves Goku isn't within the same sort of range as he was in back in the Buu saga?

[GodKaio-Ken]

I'm still confused, wasnt Goku unable to push himself back into SSJB because of performing the mafuuba on Zamasu? how was he able to turn back into blue again against merged Zamasu? and he was putting up a better fight than Vegeta, Zamasu landed a hit on Vegeta and he instantly went out of blue and back to base, while Goku was tanking shits from him here and there and was even able blow a hole through him, either Merged Zamasu was using 50% on Goku and 100% on Vegeta or its still Goku>Vegeta which is weird.

Well its just another example of Goku not giving up in some sense. Like against Vegeta where he kept using Kaio-Ken when his body had already reached its limit.

Also Goku > Vegeta...always lol jk

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Aside from Base Goku fighting Beerus and Gotenks, is there anything else since the start of the Universe 6 saga that outright proves Goku isn't within the same sort of range as he was in back in the Buu saga?

Goku has fought on even ground against opponents definitively within the non-base upper tiers of power from the Buu Saga at base form.

He's fought Bergamo, the strongest of the Trio De Dangers and a guy who praised Gohan's power over Majin Buu's, that same Gohan that Bergamo praised who's been training with Piccolo for over a year, the powerful Frost that dwarfed even Piccolo's power after the guy trained with Gohan and equaled his base form in 8 months, and a slimmed down Majin Buu that increased his speed and power after fighting in the Zen Exhibition Match, all in base form.

Even if he's not god-level in base, he's certainly gone past the Freeza threshold that the base Saiyans had yet to surpass before BoG and dipped into high-tier Buu Saga strength levels at a minimum in base form.

And he can transform to increase his power several-fold, as Zamasu told us in the Future Trunks Arc.

[The gr]

I'm also gonna Make a list with a scale of 1 out of 15 about the universe survival arc,in 3 category

Son goku

• Power:15

• Teamwork:4

• tactics:15

Vegeta

• Power:15

• Teamwork:3

• tactics:15

Son Gohan

• power:10

• Teamwork:13

• tactics:14

#17

• power:12

• teamwork:15

• tactics:5

Krillin

• Power:3

• Teamwork:15

• Tactics:14

Piccolo

• power:8

• Teamwork:15

• tactics:15

#18

• Power:5

• Teamwork:15

• tactics:5

Majin Buu

• Power:10

• Teamwork:3

• tactics:7

Tien

• Power:3

• Teamwork:8

• Tactics;15

Roshi

• Power:2

• Teamwork:8

• Tactics:14

[LowRyder2005]

Goku shouldn't have been able to put a hole in Merged zamasu considering black was already way stronger than Goku considering what he did to Vegeta pre ssjgod fanfic writing. Base Vegito also shouldn't have been able to damage Merged zamasu like that since base Vegito is weaker than ssb Goku. Saying Zamasu had his guard down is a weak defense.

Don't know about that. I could easily see Merged Zamas' being careless all the time since he's probably drunk with power and aware of being completely immortal. Or maybe he got Zamas' durability and Black's strength.

(That or his body suddenly became like Majin Buu's? Seems like Toyo really wanted to give the same vibes throughout the fight).