What Would You Have Added/Changed?

[Godo]

Jumped into this topic a tad too late, just have some thoughts on other people's ideas:

I would love nothing more than a special or movie about Vegeta's life in Freeza's army. TOEI, I WILL GIVE YOU ALL OF MY MONEY.

I'd love that too.
But I fear that it will become like any other fan fiction or fan manga:

1. They show a planet.
2. You see a specific town of the planet, zooming into a building
3. We are in a room with Zarbon and Dodoria and the silhouette of Freeza
4. Who's that Pokémon? It's Freeza!
5. We see Vegeta enter together with Nappa and Radditz and get humiliated
6. They walk away, speaking about how much they hate Freeza, Vegeta saying that the Prince of all Saiya-jins doesn't deserve all that crap
7. Vegeta speaks with Cui and they threaten each other.
8. Vegeta gets harassed by the stronger soldiers about being a Saiya-jin monkey and the weaker ones respect him by fear.
9. A battle at a planet with the Saiya-jins and some inferior race showing them being ruthless. Maybe in addition with an Oozaru transformation.
10. A shower scene showing Vegeta's butt, probably some remark about how Radditz manages his long hair, some remark about Nappa being bald.
11. Freeza gives them a run for their money and threatens them for taking too long time. Dororia and Zarbon laugh at their incompetence. A "monkey" or two slips in.
12. And so on, other generic crap we have already seen. Maybe some training room scenes and one of them in a healing tank.

They never went far with Tenshinhan in DBZ.

After Goku's SSJ transformation, there was really no way to include Tenshinhan. Sure, I agree that some kind of Kaio-ken would come handy with his development, but all in all I believe that he is a character that can't be built on more.

Yajirobe wouldn't have been retired so soon after being introduced he got one arc before he got sidelined. Tenshinhan at least got two.

Yajirobe didn't even want to be a part of any of the battles. Having such a character in the team would be negative to the storytelling. Him residing in Karin's tower was a perfect way to keep him in the story.

My main wish would be for Gohan to be the hero of the Boo Arc... but I love Vegetto and the Kid Boo Arc as well D:

That would fit with Gohan finally becoming a man, and he could have taken over after Goku. But I think that the new generation need to have a bottomless amount of power (shown with Pan and Oob specifically), something Gohan didn't have anymore after the Rou Kaioshin dance.

Maybe just another Arc about Makai or some training with Oob.

Maybe some history about Dabra would be nice. Training with Oob would probably be "Gohan's training with Piccolo Light", though.

I'd have liked more development with Goten and Trunks. Seriously, they had so much potential as characters, only for them to fizzle out in motivation at the end. Sheesh, what a wasted opportunity!

I hated it when we see them neglecting training in the end of DBZ. Even though they are teenagers, some tend to take training seriosly (take junior martial artists as an example). But I guess that the point was that they were born with too much power to be able to appreciate it?

I'd have liked to see more filler about the 3 year training period, perhaps have an episode for each character developing them before the androids arrive.

I'd love that too. Except for some filler, those three years and the real progress of the lesser characters in unclear. Except for Chao-zu's.

I would have Freeza died after his fight with Goku and had King Cold have a major role. I always like King Cold and I never like that he had a small role.

I for one thought that King Cold was unnecessary. Even though he served as making the threat against Earth greater, after all the talk about how horrible Freeza is and no one could defeat him...and since the greatest power next to Freeza's was known as Captain Ginyu's power of 120,000 it doesn't make any sense to have someone as strong as Cold going unnoticed and never being mentioned directly.

YES. Cell as a good guy as a million possibilities.

I would expect that either he would train a lot, making him a lesser character since heroes that don't shine gold or emit a lot of sparks wouldn't stay for long (such as the Earthlings and Piccolo). Unless he would transform, or even be absorbed by Buu, giving Buu super abilities. That would be awesome.

[Saiga]

Something I would have changed: Reduce the massive inflation of power levels. Make Zenkais never more than double one's power (except maybe for Gohan because of his potential). Reduce the Kaio-ken to x5 at maximum, and the Super Saiyan multiplier to x10.

[In Brightest Day]

5. We see Vegeta enter together with Nappa and Radditz and get humiliated.

Off topic, I know. I apologize.

I remember their being a filler scene during the Freeza/Namek arc that was very similar to this. Would anyone have a link to said scene or perhaps the episode it was in?

[Piccolo Daimao]

I was always disappointed that Akira Toriyama never did the epic Vegeta/Piccolo fight in the series. Missed opportunity to say the least.

Definetely, especially since there seemed to be enough friction between them in the beginning.

Apart from that one part in the early Cell arc...I don't really see it. How could you have even fitted it into the plot? Vegeta's Gokuu's rival now anyway.

[Piccolo Daimao]

They never went far with Tenshinhan in DBZ.

After Goku's SSJ transformation, there was really no way to include Tenshinhan. Sure, I agree that some kind of Kaio-ken would come handy with his development, but all in all I believe that he is a character that can't be built on more.

That's why Toriyama should've written it out better, so the Earthlings weren't completely left behind and designated to background gawper role.

Yajirobe wouldn't have been retired so soon after being introduced he got one arc before he got sidelined. Tenshinhan at least got two.

Yajirobe didn't even want to be a part of any of the battles. Having such a character in the team would be negative to the storytelling. Him residing in Karin's tower was a perfect way to keep him in the story.

Even still, this is a guy who could hold his own against Gokuu, who claimed that he was the most resilient person he'd ever met. I mean, he still gets that one fight in the 23rd TB, where he's humiliated by God, and later his shining moment in the Vegeta fight. But after that, he's nothing but a Senzu delivery boy. His moustache was pretty cool, though.

My main wish would be for Gohan to be the hero of the Boo Arc... but I love Vegetto and the Kid Boo Arc as well D:

That would fit with Gohan finally becoming a man, and he could have taken over after Goku. But I think that the new generation need to have a bottomless amount of power (shown with Pan and Oob specifically), something Gohan didn't have anymore after the Rou Kaioshin dance.

Personally, I don't think Gohan should've become the hero of the Boo arc, because it's clear that he didn't like fighting like his old man, therefore can't be relied to train and grow in power to fend off future threats. If he could barely fight evenly with a henchmen (Dabra), then what hope does he have against the real Big Bad?

I'd have liked more development with Goten and Trunks. Seriously, they had so much potential as characters, only for them to fizzle out in motivation at the end. Sheesh, what a wasted opportunity!

I hated it when we see them neglecting training in the end of DBZ. Even though they are teenagers, some tend to take training seriosly (take junior martial artists as an example). But I guess that the point was that they were born with too much power to be able to appreciate it?

Why would you hate it? The point is that they're Earthlings at heart, and as they become older, they'll want to start living normal lives. Unlike full-blooded Saiyans such as Gokuu and Vegeta, training isn't their life. Even as youngsters, they only seemed to do it for fun, calling it "playfighting".

[Michsi]

Apart from that one part in the early Cell arc...I don't really see it. How could you have even fitted it into the plot? Vegeta's Gokuu's rival now anyway.

Does that mean that he isn't allowed to go fight anybody else?

There are plenty of chances where the author could have added it to the story and that's irrelevant anyway when talking about a hypothetical situation.

As for the friction, aside from that argument before the Cell arc, there was Piccolo saying that he'll remember Vegeta calling him trash or something and planning on fighting him after he was finished with Freeza, Vegeta noticing his power against Nr. 20 and his wrath at being surpassed in power by a "lowly namekian", basically the same reason he hated Goku, there is Piccolo blaming Vegeta for Cell's final transformation, I think there was even a little exchange when they were waiting for Goku and Gohan to come out of the RoSAT.
The anime even takes it a bit further I think.

[Saiga]

That's why Toriyama should've written it out better, so the Earthlings weren't completely left behind and designated to background gawper role.

Kind of kills the point of the Super Saiyan form if everyone keeps up with them while transformed it makes the transformation a pointless development.

Personally, I don't think Gohan should've become the hero of the Boo arc, because it's clear that he didn't like fighting like his old man, therefore can't be relied to train and grow in power to fend off future threats. If he could barely fight evenly with a henchmen (Dabra), then what hope does he have against the real Big Bad?

Well, as shown against Super Boo, he could have grinded the Big Bad into dust if it wasn't for Gotenks' stupidity. And he could have learned his lesson from the Boo arc and continued training in case their is another threat - he doesn't have to like it, but he can still accept the responsibility. I think that would be better development, to accept a responsibility they didn't like instead of irresponsibly doing only what they wanted like a lot of characters seem to do.

I'd have liked more development with Goten and Trunks. Seriously, they had so much potential as characters, only for them to fizzle out in motivation at the end. Sheesh, what a wasted opportunity!

I hated it when we see them neglecting training in the end of DBZ. Even though they are teenagers, some tend to take training seriosly (take junior martial artists as an example). But I guess that the point was that they were born with too much power to be able to appreciate it?

Why would you hate it? The point is that they're Earthlings at heart, and as they become older, they'll want to start living normal lives. Unlike full-blooded Saiyans such as Gokuu and Vegeta, training isn't their life. Even as youngsters, they only seemed to do it for fun, calling it "playfighting".

I don't recall saying that, you must have misquoted.

Or maybe I have a terrible memory.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I was going to say something about Gohan also being too busy with his education and being scholar, not to mention Goten and Trunks even as kids probably not taking their training seriously and nothing beyond fun "playfighting". When they became teenagers, they'd start having normal Earthling lives, and then there's that scene where we see Gokuu and Goten post-sparring session, Goten was panting heavily on the ground while Gokuu was standing up looking fine and casually talking to Vegeta and Bulma. This suggests that Goten can't keep up with Gokuu (he probably couldn't beforehand; didn't have drive of full-blooded Saiyans like Gokuu and Vegeta), and that this was an occasional thing.

I would've embellished more on this, but my fucking computer's being a King Kamehameha bitch!

Apart from that one part in the early Cell arc...I don't really see it. How could you have even fitted it into the plot? Vegeta's Gokuu's rival now anyway.

Does that mean that he isn't allowed to go fight anybody else?

There are plenty of chances where the author could have added it to the story and that's irrelevant anyway when talking about a hypothetical situation.

As for the friction, aside from that argument before the Cell arc, there was Piccolo saying that he'll remember Vegeta calling him trash or something and planning on fighting him after he was finished with Freeza, Vegeta noticing his power against Nr. 20 and his wrath at being surpassed in power by a "lowly namekian", basically the same reason he hated Goku, there is Piccolo blaming Vegeta for Cell's final transformation, I think there was even a little exchange when they were waiting for Goku and Gohan to come out of the RoSAT.
The anime even takes it a bit further I think.

No, but I don't think Piccolo and Vegeta have that much of a beef with each other. Vegeta only really cares about fighting Gokuu anyway.

The examples you're mentioning are just brief little exchanges that are passed over and forgotten. That's like saying we should've seen a fight between Tenshinhan and Vegeta, because unlike the others, Tenshinhan clearly expressed that he hadn't forgiven Vegeta for killing him and said he didn't know how Yamcha could live with him.

[Saiga]

That's like saying we should've seen a fight between Tenshinhan and Vegeta, because unlike the others, Tenshinhan clearly expressed that he hadn't forgiven Vegeta for killing him and said he didn't know how Yamcha could live with him.

I would pay to see that. I would love to see Vegeta mopping the floor with Tenshinhan, 'cause that's what would happen.

[Piccolo Daimao]

That's why Toriyama should've written it out better, so the Earthlings weren't completely left behind and designated to background gawper role.

Kind of kills the point of the Super Saiyan form if everyone keeps up with them while transformed it makes the transformation a pointless development.

Again, Toriyama should've written it out better. Pre-Z, even if they were still much weaker than Gokuu, they still got their shining moments, like at the Tenkaichi Budoukais. Anyway, you know what I mean.

Personally, I don't think Gohan should've become the hero of the Boo arc, because it's clear that he didn't like fighting like his old man, therefore can't be relied to train and grow in power to fend off future threats. If he could barely fight evenly with a henchmen (Dabra), then what hope does he have against the real Big Bad?

Well, as shown against Super Boo, he could have grinded the Big Bad into dust if it wasn't for Gotenks' stupidity. And he could have learned his lesson from the Boo arc and continued training in case their is another threat - he doesn't have to like it, but he can still accept the responsibility. I think that would be better development, to accept a responsibility they didn't like instead of irresponsibly doing only what they wanted like a lot of characters seem to do.

It's not irresponsible at all. So Gohan should just have to accept the burden his father wrongfully put on him, rather than focusing on his studies and becoming a scholar like he and his mother always wanted? So Gohan should be doomed to live out the rest of his life doing something he doesn't even like?

It's not Gohan's fault he's so strong. Gokuu, Vegeta and/or Piccolo could train and get stronger than him anyway. Why should a kid who was dragged into these adults' stupid conflicts against his will have the burden of responsibility fall on him when he just wants to live his own life, rather than other people's?

That's like saying we should've seen a fight between Tenshinhan and Vegeta, because unlike the others, Tenshinhan clearly expressed that he hadn't forgiven Vegeta for killing him and said he didn't know how Yamcha could live with him.

I would pay to see that. I would love to see Vegeta mopping the floor with Tenshinhan, 'cause that's what would happen.

It wouldn't take very long, though. I don't think Tenshinhan would take his hatred for Vegeta any further than just insulting him anyway. Personally, I don't want to see Vegeta doing anything more to puff up his ego. If you really want to pay to see that, then just buy Sparking! METEOR.

[Michsi]

No, but I don't think Piccolo and Vegeta have that much of a beef with each other. Vegeta only really cares about fighting Gokuu anyway.

The examples you're mentioning are just brief little exchanges that are passed over and forgotten. That's like saying we should've seen a fight between Tenshinhan and Vegeta, because unlike the others, Tenshinhan clearly expressed that he hadn't forgiven Vegeta for killing him and said he didn't know how Yamcha could live with him.

I never said that Piccolo should replace Vegeta's obsession with Goku, but being someones rival doesn't mean you can't have altercations with anybody else. And yes, I wouldn't have minded a fight between Tenshinhan and Vegeta either, since that scene could have very well laid basis for such an event. I and ,as far as I could tell, others noticed the friction, so it wouldn't make a fight between them completely out of left field. I know that it gets overshadowed by his wish to beat Goku ( which is more or less one sided if you ask me ) and it isn't much by comparisson, but it's there. If anything, it could have helped Vegeta's character not seem so one track minded.

[dbgtFO]

It's not irresponsible at all. So Gohan should just have to accept the burden his father wrongfully put on him, rather than focusing on his studies and becoming a scholar like he and his mother always wanted? So Gohan should be doomed to live out the rest of his life doing something he doesn't even like?

It's not Gohan's fault he's so strong. Gokuu, Vegeta and/or Piccolo could train and get stronger than him anyway. Why should a kid who was dragged into these adults' stupid conflicts against his will have the burden of responsibility fall on him when he just wants to live his own life, rather than other people's?

With great power comes great responsibility afterall.

[Piccolo Daimao]

No, but I don't think Piccolo and Vegeta have that much of a beef with each other. Vegeta only really cares about fighting Gokuu anyway.

The examples you're mentioning are just brief little exchanges that are passed over and forgotten. That's like saying we should've seen a fight between Tenshinhan and Vegeta, because unlike the others, Tenshinhan clearly expressed that he hadn't forgiven Vegeta for killing him and said he didn't know how Yamcha could live with him.

I never said that Piccolo should replace Vegeta's obsession with Goku, but being someones rival doesn't mean you can't have altercations with anybody else. And yes, I wouldn't have minded a fight between Tenshinhan and Vegeta either, since that scene could have very well laid basis for such an event. I and ,as far as I could tell, others noticed the friction, so it wouldn't make a fight between them completely out of left field. I know that it gets overshadowed by his wish to beat Goku ( which is more or less one sided if you ask me ) and it isn't much by comparisson, but it's there. If anything, it could have helped Vegeta's character not seem so one track minded.

Meh. Fair point, but I just don't have any demand for it, personally or in the story itself.

With great power comes great responsibility afterall.

The difference is that Spider-Man (where that quote comes from) is an actual superhero who doesn't seem to hate fighting or his job. Gohan is a child who happens to be strong because of his father's blood, and even then, he's not necessarily stronger all the time than Gokuu, Vegeta and/or Piccolo. Why can't leave it to the guys who actually do train and want to fight strong opponents?

[Michsi]

It's not irresponsible at all. So Gohan should just have to accept the burden his father wrongfully put on him, rather than focusing on his studies and becoming a scholar like he and his mother always wanted? So Gohan should be doomed to live out the rest of his life doing something he doesn't even like?

Regarding this, wouldn't you say it's rather selfish if you had the power to save everyone if need be and just go on doing what you want with your life. He displays more responsibility towards the everyman than all the others put together, but he isn't willing to work or make sacrifices for it?

[Piccolo Daimao]

It's not irresponsible at all. So Gohan should just have to accept the burden his father wrongfully put on him, rather than focusing on his studies and becoming a scholar like he and his mother always wanted? So Gohan should be doomed to live out the rest of his life doing something he doesn't even like?

Regarding this, wouldn't you say it's rather selfish if you had the power to save everyone if need be and just go on doing what you want with your life. He displays more responsibility towards the everyman than all the others put together, but he isn't willing to work or make sacrifices for it?

That would be a good argument if it wasn't in a time of peace where there wasn't someone actively threatening the Earth. None of the Z-Warriors are superheroes. They're just martial artists that get tangled up in fights with guys that happen to threaten Earth. Gokuu himself is a selfish bastard who's threatened Earth on multiple occasions for his own single-minded desires.

[dbgtFO]

The difference is that Spider-Man (where that quote comes from) is an actual superhero who doesn't seem to hate fighting or his job.

Spiderman wasn't a superhero until he realized that his power could be used for more than simply his wants and needs. And I thought he does dislike "his job", but does it because of the responsibility his power gave him?
But I'm not that well versed in comic book Spiderman, so I'm not too sure about that.

Instead Gohan is a child who happens to be strong because of his father's blood, and even then, he's not necessarily stronger all the time than Gokuu, Vegeta and/or Piccolo. Why can't leave it to the guys who actually do train and want to fight strong opponents?

Because Gohan has the power to surpass everyone of them, which could be needed, if the opponent was someone they couldn't beat.

[Michsi]

That would be a good argument if it wasn't in a time of peace where there wasn't someone actively threatening the Earth. None of the Z-Warriors are superheroes. They're just martial artists that get tangled up in fights with guys that happen to threaten Earth. Gokuu himself is a selfish bastard who's threatened Earth on multiple occasions for his own single-minded desires.

I think previous experiences should warrant enough caution to know that peace time NEVER lasts in that universe. The Z warriors aren't superheroes, but Gohan is. He made himself into one, by choice. It just shows that he is the one who is aware that this kind of power should be used for the greater good. If he is the one who understands that and would still neglect his training for his studies then he would be selfish .
Even Goku would never deliberately put any innocent bystander in danger and no matter what anyone says, he DOES care about the earth.

[Saiga]

But Gohan is a superhero.

[dbgtFO]

The Z warriors aren't superheroes, but Gohan is. He made himself into one, by choice..

But Gohan is a superhero.

..I can't believe I forgot about this!

[Piccolo Daimao]

*sigh*

This might sound like a pretty weak argument, but DB isn't the kind of series that delve deep into responsibility and all that stuff, especially when the primary hero, Gokuu, isn't your stereotypical Superman-type guy who cares for anything beyond fighting strong opponents. And arguably, Gokuu is more of a superhero than Gohan, even if he does gradually become more selfish as the series progresses. Compare the Daimaou and Cell situations. Even having lost the use of all but one of his limbs, Gokuu still mustered up enough power to propel himself towards Piccolo Daimaou and blast a hole right through the hulking demon. Gohan? He gave up after Cell injured one of his arms, and Gokuu had to encourage him from the afterlife to continue.

Gohan is only a "superhero" because of his Great Saiyaman persona, and that's because, even if he didn't train at all, he's still more than powerful enough to deal with your bog standard Earthling speeders and robbers.

I just think it would be pretty depressing for Gohan if he had to practically give up his education and dream job to train his butt off just so he could be strong enough to fend off a threat that may or may not have been stronger than him if he slacked off in the first place. I know life sucks and it's not fair, but this is DB we're talking about here.

It says a lot that even Toriyama thought that Gohan didn't suit the hero role, returning it to Gokuu instead (and no, there's no official word on whether or not this was because of the fans).