Do the die-hards really hate GT?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Where was this ever hinted at remotely before in dragon ball, did they just pull this out of nowhere as another unjustified excuse to make a new enemy? Well there goes the whole, "Myuu was advanced technology" justification, since now apparently 17 was not just supposed to have been stronger than Cell, but apparently 10000000x stronger than Super Perfect Cell...according to GT of course. That's a bit hard to imagine, given the outrageous power gap, you'd wish they would explain the huge difference instead of throw it at you with no explanation.

How can you explain that a random evil genius from Earth could create robots stronger than Freeza, the strongest being in the universe before the Super Saiyans, that could absorb ki attacks or have infinite energy? Didn't this also came out of nowhere? Didn't a random evil wizard came out of nowhere with a demon that was made by accident, and could destroy everything in the universe?

Good thing Goku was there to save the world again though, conveniently with a new transformation.

Like when Goku broke the prison that he & co. where trapped by Pilaf, conveniently with a new transformation.
Like when Goku beated Freeza, conveniently with a new transformation.
Like when Vegeta could make Second Form Cell eat shit, conveniently with a new transformation.
Like when Trunks had hopes to beat Cell, conveniently with a new transformation.
Like when Gohan killed Cell, conveniently with a new transformation.
Or like when Goku could survive in his fight with Pure Boo, conveniently with a new transformation.

[Zephyr]

-Goku was clearly not toying with Ledgic in his base form, when he got kicked you could see in his face it hurt, he was trying, but even Ledgic admitted he himself was holding back so yeah apparently he was ridiculously strong. Then Ledgic took a Kamehameha from SS(2?) Goku and was barely damaged. So Ledgic>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Super Perfect Cell

Haven't watched the series for a while, so I can't recall the fight in such detail. But it was implicit to me at least that Goku was ultimately just screwing around, contrary to how he lead the audience on. Also, I recall the GT Perfect Files mentioning that SSj2 never shows up in GT, but I could be wrong. If that's correct, then Ledgic took a SSj1 kamehameha, and one of unknown effort at that.

-Gero was not using "earth" technology, he was using technology from his own genius creation.

And he was from...Earth.

So now we have someone doing the same thing. It was sort of fine with Gero, he discovered an infinite energy source and somehow made really powerful robots way beyond a galactic tyrannt recognized throughout the universe, he had also been spying on the Z-fighters progression for a while, this was further developed with Trunk's alternate timeline detailing how his creation was such a breakthrough it destroyed the Z fighters in at least one scenario.

And that was with technology, from the mind, of someone on Earth. Imagine a more technologically advanced civilization than Earth's, and someone in that more advanced civilization able to be regarded in that civilization as a genius. I think it's justifiably proportionate in comparison.

But its just plain bad storytelling for Myuu to show up with some moar goofy robots conveniently just stronger than an ancient evil that took the gods of the universe to seal away, no development he just made them and they are stronger since they come later in the series, they never take into consideration what it means to be this strong, they just keep churning out robots, giant worms, and dancing people to somehow pose a threat to nigh relativistic solar system exploding ultra gods.

I'll give you the fact that didn't necessarily have anyone to spy on while he was making his creations the way Gero did, but my above point still stands.

-I guess you can say we don't know the nature of the dragon balls, but weren't they just magic orbs created by a weak namek that weren't even powerful enough to kill Raditz? Its only a fact they pulled these dragons out of their asses, they could have expanded on the nature of the nameks themselves to perhaps explain this strange random quality of the dragon balls they were introducing, but no, it just was how it was because that's how it is with gt.

Magic orbs that can screw with the very balance of nature. When the Dragon Balls were still dominated by positive energy, they were able to restore life, but (seemingly) unable to take it away. Seems logical enough to me for the inverse to be true when the polarity of the energy that was governing made a shift.

[Bussani]

Where was this ever hinted at remotely before in dragon ball, did they just pull this out of nowhere as another unjustified excuse to make a new enemy?

When was it ever hinted that everyone had little robots following them around collecting their cells for most of the story? It's okay to add things later so long as they're not contradictory. Both #17 and #18 have infinite energy reactors, so their potential could well be infinite, depending on how good their bodies are. I don't really have a problem with Super 17 being as strong as he was...although his arc was just terrible for plenty of other reasons.

[Nex Carnifex]

-Goku was clearly not toying with Ledgic in his base form, when he got kicked you could see in his face it hurt, he was trying, but even Ledgic admitted he himself was holding back so yeah apparently he was ridiculously strong. Then Ledgic took a Kamehameha from SS(2?) Goku and was barely damaged. So Ledgic>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Super Perfect Cell

Haven't watched the series for a while, so I can't recall the fight in such detail. But it was implicit to me at least that Goku was ultimately just screwing around, contrary to how he lead the audience on. Also, I recall the GT Perfect Files mentioning that SSj2 never shows up in GT, but I could be wrong. If that's correct, then Ledgic took a SSj1 kamehameha, and one of unknown effort at that.

-Gero was not using "earth" technology, he was using technology from his own genius creation.

And he was from...Earth.

So now we have someone doing the same thing. It was sort of fine with Gero, he discovered an infinite energy source and somehow made really powerful robots way beyond a galactic tyrannt recognized throughout the universe, he had also been spying on the Z-fighters progression for a while, this was further developed with Trunk's alternate timeline detailing how his creation was such a breakthrough it destroyed the Z fighters in at least one scenario.

And that was with technology, from the mind, of someone on Earth. Imagine a more technologically advanced civilization than Earth's, and someone in that more advanced civilization able to be regarded in that civilization as a genius. I think it's justifiably proportionate in comparison.

But its just plain bad storytelling for Myuu to show up with some moar goofy robots conveniently just stronger than an ancient evil that took the gods of the universe to seal away, no development he just made them and they are stronger since they come later in the series, they never take into consideration what it means to be this strong, they just keep churning out robots, giant worms, and dancing people to somehow pose a threat to nigh relativistic solar system exploding ultra gods.

I'll give you the fact that didn't necessarily have anyone to spy on while he was making his creations the way Gero did, but my above point still stands.

-I guess you can say we don't know the nature of the dragon balls, but weren't they just magic orbs created by a weak namek that weren't even powerful enough to kill Raditz? Its only a fact they pulled these dragons out of their asses, they could have expanded on the nature of the nameks themselves to perhaps explain this strange random quality of the dragon balls they were introducing, but no, it just was how it was because that's how it is with gt.

Magic orbs that can screw with the very balance of nature. When the Dragon Balls were still dominated by positive energy, they were able to restore life, but (seemingly) unable to take it away. Seems logical enough to me for the inverse to be true when the polarity of the energy that was governing made a shift.

Yet somehow Gero and his "Earth" technology were going to have developed something 10000000x powerful than anything Myuu had made, according to GT, it just didn't have the time. So by your logic unadvanced Earth technology>>>>>>>>advanced alien technology wtf? Either way, GT is stupid.

[dragondyle]

I don't hate GT at all, despite some flaws. I really like it and proudly own it all. I think it really captured both Dragon Ball and Z in terms of adventure, charm, and action.

[Zephyr]

Yet somehow Gero and his "Earth" technology were going to have developed something 10000000x powerful than anything Myuu had made, according to GT, it just didn't have the time. So by your logic unadvanced Earth technology>>>>>>>>advanced alien technology wtf? Either way, GT is stupid.

Just because Gero wanted #17 to eventually get that strong doesn't mean that he actually could have pulled it off without Myuu's help.

In regards to the actual fruits of the technology utilized, all we are shown is:

- Gero's Earthling technology creating some powerful artifical humans

- Myuu's more advanced alien technology which is more advanced than Gero's Earthling technology, creating Machine Mutants which are more powerful than Gero's artificial humans

- Gero and Myuu joining forces and combining their technology to create something more powerful than either could create on their own

Or in other words: Artificial Human/Machine Mutant hybrid > Machine Mutants > Artificial Humans

There are no plot holes or obscene leaps in logic about that.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yet somehow Gero and his "Earth" technology were going to have developed something 10000000x powerful than anything Myuu had made, according to GT, it just didn't have the time. So by your logic unadvanced Earth technology>>>>>>>>advanced alien technology wtf? Either way, GT is stupid.

Didn't you read my post, or you are making things up to make GT look worse than what it is?

I don't know if it was said in the dub, but in the original, Dr. Gero explains that #17 was going to be stronger than Cell, but didn't manage to complete him. With Dr. Myuu's Mashine Mutant technology, he created the Hell Fighter #17, so that he will merge with the original, so that he will become complete.

Sure GT isn't the best thing available, you can dislike it, but give real reasons if you want to point out the stupid things in it, or just say that you didn't like it because it wasn't enjoyable for you. But don't ignore things, or point out things about it you don't know and use them as proof.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

How can you explain that a random evil genius from Earth could create robots stronger than Freeza, the strongest being in the universe before the Super Saiyans, that could absorb ki attacks or have infinite energy? Didn't this also came out of nowhere? Didn't a random evil wizard came out of nowhere with a demon that was made by accident, and could destroy everything in the universe?

He collected data from every single battle Goku had on earth in order to come up with the perfect enemy. He spent his whole life developing 20 alterations and one sentient life form to perfect this. As for the energy absorption, Gero couldn't maintain infinite energy so he developed technology that would allow him and 19 to outlast Goku. He then found a way to transfer this idea into a living organism(Cell) but that would take years to develop; hence the fact Cell was born in the future.

Like when Goku broke the prison that he & co. where trapped by Pilaf, conveniently with a new transformation.

This illustrated the significance of Goku's tail, showed that he was unique and otherworldly(even if he didn't plan on the whole saiyan thing years later)

Like when Goku beated Freeza, conveniently with a new transformation.

Playing off a legend that was being repeated throughout the whole saga. There was no way a Super Saiyan was not going to happen. Plus it wasn't just *poof* Super Saiyan. It took the death of his best friend.

Like when Vegeta could make Second Form Cell eat shit, conveniently with a new transformation.

One it was nice that this wasn't Goku. Two it was a character building moment. Vegeta could have been the hero and saved the world but this showed that he couldn't give a fuck about being a hero he just wanted to best Goku and that is what lead to his defeat.

Like when Trunks had hopes to beat Cell, conveniently with a new transformation.

Again, this was to illustrate a point that just strength alone couldn't beat an opponent. This was kind of like a moral lesson for readers. You need to find the right balance of Strenght and smarts.

Like when Gohan killed Cell, conveniently with a new transformation.

This hidden power that Gohan possessed has been a running theme since day one of Z.

Or like when Goku could survive in his fight with Pure Boo, conveniently with a new transformation.

It was a transformation again was a double edge sword. Ultimately, Goku beat Buu as a normal Super Saiyan with the help of pretty much everyone.

These elements were all lost in GT. Instead we got a new transformation just for flash. There was no significance or moral element behind it. Just a way to move the plot forward.

[Nex Carnifex]

Yet somehow Gero and his "Earth" technology were going to have developed something 10000000x powerful than anything Myuu had made, according to GT, it just didn't have the time. So by your logic unadvanced Earth technology>>>>>>>>advanced alien technology wtf? Either way, GT is stupid.

Didn't you read my post, or you are making things up to make GT look worse than what it is?

I don't know if it was said in the dub, but in the original, Dr. Gero explains that #17 was going to be stronger than Cell, but didn't manage to complete him. With Dr. Myuu's Mashine Mutant technology, he created the Hell Fighter #17, so that he will merge with the original, so that he will become complete.

Sure GT isn't the best thing available, you can dislike it, but give real reasons if you want to point out the stupid things in it, or just say that you didn't like it because it wasn't enjoyable for you. But don't ignore things, or point out things about it you don't know and use them as proof.

I'm not making things up, if 17 was supposed to be as ludicrously more powerful than even Super Vegito as he is in GT then Gero's "earth technology" as you call it would be much more advanced than anything Myuu did, which would now be considered < earth technology by your logic. My point is the GT villains aren't justified for being that strong, Toei just pulled random, stupid(opinion), baseless plot points out of their ass to bring out more baddies, non except for Baby had a good reason for being so strong, like for example being a legendary demon sealed away by the gods so it wouldn't destroy the universe.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

@SparkyPantsMcGee At last someone with good reasons. And yes, I agree with you.

I'm not making things up, if 17 was supposed to be as ludicrously more powerful than even Super Vegito as he is in GT then Gero's "earth technology" as you call it would be much more advanced than anything Myuu did, which would now be considered < earth technology by your logic. My point is the GT villains aren't justified for being that strong, Toei just pulled random, stupid(opinion), baseless plot points out of their ass to bring out more baddies, non except for Baby had a good reason for being so strong, like for example being a legendary demon sealed away by the gods so it wouldn't destroy the universe.

Baby was absorbing energy from various aliens in the galaxy, the whole Earth, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Bra, and had Vegeta's body AND finally transformed into a Golden Oozaru. Myuu's Machine Mutant technology is worlds above Gero's. You forget that Hell Fighter #17 was a mix of Gero's & Myuu's technology, and merged with the original #17 to complete him. Gero said that he planed to make #17 even stronger than Cell, but didn't managed to complete him. He finally completed him and managed to make him a lot stronger. He also got power-ups through his fights because he was absorbing ki attacks like Gohan's Kamehame-ha, SSJ Vegeta's Final Shine Attack and SSJ4 Goku's 10x Kamehame-ha. The Evil Dragon's are made from magic, there is no logic, like with Boo.

What doesn't make sense in GT? How the hell did Goku managed to get so strong to reach Boo's power in his normal SSJ? Why is Redgic THAT much strong? His power was between base & SSJ Goku's power, so he is stronger than Cell?! How can Artificial Humans & robots be dead, while they were never alive to begin with? When the villains that escaped Hell died on Earth, shouldn't their souls be erased from the world, rather than die again?

What was wrong with GT? Bad writing. Great ideas, bad execution. I liked it from Baby arc until the end, especially the ending. I liked Goku back to kid, I liked it's villains, I liked all three SSJ4 warriors, and Yi Xing Long is my favorite character, and one of the most original villains from the whole series, IMO. GT doesn't compare with the manga, but I can enjoy it. I can understand it's flaws, but only when they are real flaws.

[Aoi]

I find GT is very enjoyable if you set your mindset right. Much like with the DBZ movies. I saw movie 3 recently and I immediately realized how many questions I should have been asking about the plot: "Who the hell is this Tullice guy? Why is he so poweful? Where did his henchmen come from? Why didn't Piccolo or Goku die from such powerful ki finishing blasts at point blank range? Etc. However, you don't worry about it. It's still an very enjoyable experience. Is GT better than "Z"? Hell no. Not even close by a long shot. It's still on the level of most DBZ movies I feel though.

[Aoi]

I don't know about you guys, but Dragon Ball IMO was so successful because Toriyama wrote it to be a parody of a lot of genres. It's supposed to be slap stick with some very well done dramatic scenes tossed around. I think Candy Vegetto vs. Super Buu is testament to this. The entire franchise is very wacky at its core and isn't supposed to make 100% sense. In a way, it makes the experience much more enjoyable since it gives you permission to not worry about silly plot inconsistencies. It is frustrating considering how careful Toriyama was with consistency, but it's no worse than any DBZ movie. If you think about it, Nail + Piccolo fusion should not have given Piccolo the ability to match Freeza form 2.

[Nex Carnifex]

Its ok to have a story with wacky characters just make the story well written not the quality of a badly conceived fan fiction. The movies are different they didn't try to add to series they were stand alone for fun, GT was supposed to continue the series and it did so poorly, leaving dragon ball with a bad taste :|

[Aoi]

Very enjoyable review of Dragon Ball GT. Maybe the best I've seen on the net.
DBGT review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaumtsHBanI

DBZ review is also beautiful. Very heartfelt and talks about a key factor in "Z" that most shows from our childhood don't have: It's still fantastic after all these years. Also about how big of a deal this was to North American kids. This guy's Canadian btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpJCFMGUe3E

[Metalwario64]

Very enjoyable review of Dragon Ball GT. Maybe the best I've seen on the net.
DBGT review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaumtsHBanI

Sorry, but I stopped watching after he complained about Kulilin having hair in GT. Why's he watching GT if he hasn't even seen the Boo arc? Also, who's to say Vegeta can't cut his hair? How does "a Saiyan's hair doesn't undergo any weird changes" mean his hair is like steel and nothing can cut or alter it?

I'm surprised he didn't ask how Goku was able to change his clothes. He also made it seem as though there was no action in Dragon Ball.

[Aoi]

Very enjoyable review of Dragon Ball GT. Maybe the best I've seen on the net.
DBGT review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaumtsHBanI

Sorry, but I stopped watching after he complained about Kulilin having hair in GT. Why's he watching GT if he hasn't even seen the Boo arc? Also, who's to say Vegeta can't cut his hair? How does "a Saiyan's hair doesn't undergo any weird changes" mean his hair is like steel and nothing can cut or alter it?

I'm surprised he didn't ask how Goku was able to change his clothes. He also made it seem as though there was no action in Dragon Ball.

I agree, but I'd skip by that. I feel he has some valid points past the 9 minute mark. My favourite was about how GT's fights differed from "Z"'s in many ways. Specifically how it focussed on 1 v. 1 battles as opposed to Z's more interesting team based ones.

[Nex Carnifex]

This guy is a weirdo but his review is spot on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub-Vs1tXSrc

[Aoi]

This guy is a weirdo but his review is spot on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub-Vs1tXSrc

Hahaha. Yea I've seen this review awhile ago. It was good.

[Nex Carnifex]

This guy is a weirdo but his review is spot on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub-Vs1tXSrc

Hahaha. Yea I've seen this review awhile ago.

He really sums up why GT makes absolutely no sense, if only they'd redo it or replace it...

[DBZGTKOSDH]

He really sums up why GT makes absolutely no sense, if only they'd redo it or replace it...

There is already a replacement that follows the manga continuity, instead of GT which follows the anime continuity. It's called Dragon Ball Online.