Did Gohan even lose power?

[Cardle grave]

HIGH SCHOOL ERA SUPER SAIYAN 2
First Appears: Vol. 37
During the Tenkaichi Budoukai he transforms at Kibito's request. Because he couldn't gain power from anger and because he hadn't been training, he doesn't have the same battle power as when he defeated Cell.

It says both the lack of rage and training lowered his power.
Yes, it says Adult Gohan is equals with Kid Gohan, but then it contradicts itself right in the statement you and I mentioned.

When he defeated cell champ, meaning he was enrage as that is what they are talking "rage". Because he hadn't been training he never gave the chance for his anger to let loose. So its been all quiet for 7 years and he couldn't gain the same power as he did when he defeated cell

[PerfectFreeza]

How would not training weaken his rage?It's about his emotions and apparently, he was more emotional and prone getting to very angry as a kid, than as an adult, since he says he is not as angry, as in Cell Games.

[Cardle grave]

How would not training weaken his rage?It's about his emotions and apparently, he was more emotional and prone getting to very angry as a kid, than as an adult, since he says he is not as angry, as in Cell Games.

You just answered your own question, As a kid he was always fighting. It was shown in training inside the HBTC that he would get rage boost. that is how goku noticed he had ssj2.

But because he hadn't been training for 7 years, he has been calm and normal. Thus his anger boost is slipping away. That is why he can't draw out the same power as when he killed cell. Thus that time being enrage.

Meaning that enrage Kid gohan>Adult gohan=Kid gohan

Its not rocket science

[PerfectFreeza]

He would get rage boost from seeing his loved ones get hurt, not from training.
I don't recall a scene like that in the manga, cardle.
It's probably because he grew up, that made him more calm, not the lack of training.

[Cardle grave]

It would properly be form training, Maybe as he trained and time goes on when training his anger would stay in check. But because of the peace his anger is slipping away thus not drawing the same power when he killed cell.

Well i am done, we need more quotes form dazienshuu like this. It would make debates so much more eaiser

[PerfectFreeza]

Anger isn't based on training, it's an emotion.He would need to have hot temper.
While I am thinking about this, perhaps it was harder and harder for Gohan to get angry, as he was getting older, since very young kids are bratty, short temper.
By the time of Cell Games, he needed his whole family and friends to be in danger and pain to even get angry.
The Daizenshuu says no training had an effect on his power as well.

[Cardle grave]

Anger isn't based on training, it's an emotion.He would need to have hot temper.
While I am thinking about this, perhaps it was harder and harder for Gohan to get angry, as he was getting older, since very young kids are bratty, short temper.
By the time of Cell Games, he needed his whole family and friends to be in danger and pain to even get angry.
The Daizenshuu says no training had an effect on his power as well.

yeah but when gohan was younger he had a lot of fights. He use to feed on that anger when he is fighting. Properly the same way he does it when he trains. Either that or being calm for 7 years well made him to dam happy lol

[TheMightyOzaru]

The Daizenshuu have a few hiccups here and there, Gohan almost certainly got weaker. I'll take Vegeta and Goku's word over a contradicted statement in the Daizenshuu 2 any day .

[Hugo Boss]

To me, it's most like Vegeta was complaining about Gohan not being able to bring out his true power against Kibito and Dabra, pointing that he was stronger when he fought Cell. I don't think they ever stated Gohan got weaker exactly, maybe I should re-read the manga.

[Cardle grave]

Dazienshuu>Anything IMO. They wouldnt put it in the guidebooks if its not the real fact

And the manga practically agrees with it anyways. As vegeta never targeted gohan who fought cell, Only when he KILLED him so vegeta is to talking about his rage

[TheMightyOzaru]

The Daizenshuu have mistakes here and there. Not everything is an established fact. For example, the Daizenshuu 7 claims Tenshinhan fought C-19 even though he never did:

He tried to fight Piccolo Daimao, but had a difficult fight against Drum, who Daimao gave birth to, and was absolutely no match for Piccolo Daimao himself. He fought numerous enemies, such as Nappa, Artificial Human No. 19, second-form Cell, and the Cell Juniors, but always lost.

Furthermore, why would he compare SSJ2 Gohan to SSJ Gohan? That doesn't add up in the slightest.

[Cardle grave]

The Daizenshuu have mistakes here and there. Not everything is an established fact. For example, the Daizenshuu 7 claims Tenshinhan fought C-19 even though he never did:

He tried to fight Piccolo Daimao, but had a difficult fight against Drum, who Daimao gave birth to, and was absolutely no match for Piccolo Daimao himself. He fought numerous enemies, such as Nappa, Artificial Human No. 19, second-form Cell, and the Cell Juniors, but always lost.

Furthermore, why would he compare SSJ2 Gohan to SSJ Gohan? That doesn't add up in the slightest.

i think just being there means you take part and there is a few examples of that if i remember correctly. well it depends if gohan was or was not ssj2, is it stated any where that he transformed after budokai ?? and i wouldnt make sense if he wasnt talking about enrage because normal gohan who fought cell got the shit beat out of him and the only time he started fighting when he was enrage

[hleV]

As a kid he was always fighting.

He wasn't fighting prior to the appearance of Raditz, yet he's gotten a rage boost.

It was shown in training inside the HBTC that he would get rage boost. that is how goku noticed he had ssj2.

Not sure if I understand what do you mean by that, but we didn't see Gohan showing anything that would suggest rage boost or SS2 in ROSAT (unless it's some anime-exclusive shit). And Goku didn't know about SS2 until Gohan became one against Cell.

But because he hadn't been training for 7 years, he has been calm and normal. Thus his anger boost is slipping away. That is why he can't draw out the same power as when he killed cell. Thus that time being enrage.

For Gohan to get really angry, something big has to happen in front of his eyes.

Meaning that enrage Kid gohan>Adult gohan=Kid gohan

I somewhat agree with this comparison.

[Mjb1985]

I don't think fighting has anything to do with emotional rage. I think watching Videl get beat to a pulp enraged him and was what allowed him to transform into Super Saiyan 2 in the first place.

I think his " true power " is simply his Super Saiyan 2 power. I think there is a case of bad writing regarding a lot of this stuff. Generally I think if you act like the characters didn't just witness Gohan become a Super Saiyan 2 at the Budokai, the statements flow better.

Many people have differing views on this issue but those are mine.

[Kamiccolo9]

It was shown in training inside the HBTC that he would get rage boost. that is how goku noticed he had ssj2.

Not sure if I understand what do you mean by that, but we didn't see Gohan showing anything that would suggest rage boost or SS2 in ROSAT (unless it's some anime-exclusive shit). And Goku didn't know about SS2 until Gohan became one against Cell.

Yeah, it's anime only. He's talking about this scene.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUXwqUdWwSw

[Hugo Boss]

Well, I think rage has a great influence in Gohan's power since he was a child. It was stated too in his adulthood. He didn't transform to Super Saiyan 2 when he gets angry for Videl, assuming neither Yam or Spopovich acted like he was a super-powered warrior and the measure device didn't accused then, but he was stronger than his regular Super Saiyan state, probably getting the same level of SS Kid Gohan, at full power.

Gohan can easily go to SS2 as he demonstrates to Kibito. The only problem is getting control of his power, even Kibito felt he didn't show his true strenght while recovering him and Vegeta stated that Gohan wasn't even close to the level he was when he fought Cell. His full power in Boo Saga was never pretty showed in SS2, only stated to be fierce by Vegeta, though I have a feeling that he used it to pull the Z Sword off as he put that much effort to did it.

The manga show inconsistences drawing him as a regular Super Saiyan while he is fighting Dabra, Fat Boo and even when he transforms to take the sword. As Goku said, Dabra was stronger than he thought, then stronger than Cell. Gohan couldn't fight him as a regular Super Saiyan and he wouldn't struggle so much if knew he could easily go to a stronger form.

[Mjb1985]

I disagree, I don't think Gohan can go Super Saiyan 2 if not for the Videl beating.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I disagree, I don't think Gohan can go Super Saiyan 2 if not for the Videl beating.

He did transformed into a Super Saiyan 2 in front of Kibito in his own free will (Kibito told him to turn into a Super Saiyan, but Gohan said that he could go beyond it). Videl was already healed at that point, and Gohan wasn't angry at that point, and even when Videl was getting beaten up, Gohan turned into a Super Saiyan, not Super Saiyan 2.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Ooooooooooor Gohan didn't need SSJ2 to beat Dabura. Gohan was putting up a good fight. The only dumbass move he pulled was not going SSJ2 against Buu. Yeah it wouldn't have mattered, but it would have sense within the context of the story.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Ooooooooooor Gohan didn't need SSJ2 to beat Dabura. Gohan was putting up a good fight.

I agree. Vegeta's reaction tells me that Gohan was strong enough to defeat Dabra, but it was taking him too long to do it due to his rusty skills.

The only dumbass move he pulled was not going SSJ2 against Buu. Yeah it wouldn't have mattered, but it would have sense within the context of the story.

The only excuse I can think for this is that Gohan was so panicked, he couldn't think clearly.