Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?

[Insertclevername]

But then how come Vegeta's Garikku-Ho was able to match up with Gokuu's Kaio-Ken X3 Kamehameha? Maybe just super elites like Nappa & Vegeta are able to amp their attacks.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Most think that was possible because Kaio-Ken X3 made Goku's power drop to a level where his attack would be equal with Vegeta's.

[RandomGuy96]

Weren't you also saying the same thing? And using numbers to prove your point as well?

Not really. I was disagreeing with the idea that you can boil down everything to a consistent formula. That's part of why Nappa's level works fine; we don't know any such formula exists, and Toriyama seems to portray power levels as inconsistently as he possibly can. There's nothing wrong with setting up a general range for fanmade lists, but there IS something wrong with calling official numbers "BS" because they don't fit these fanmade formulas you make in your head, where Fighter A has to be X% of Fighter B to dodge him/survive a punch, when the creator himself would laugh at such formulas.

Like I said: "SPECIFIC POWER GAPS". There is no exact mathematical consistency to power levels. Seemingly intentionally.

Wow guys, it's almost as if power levels aren't consistent!

No man, everyone knows Toriyama was sitting there with a calculator the whole time. That's why Vegeta tanked several hits from someone at 24,000 and Cui got killed in one hit with the exact same gap. And why Vegeta at 18,000 took a 32,000 blast to the face and it just made him mad, whereas Dodoria at 20,000 (or more) took a 24,000 blast to the back and died instantly. That's why Vegeta was able to put up a good fight against Recoome while Zarbon was completely helpless with a smaller gap. Or why we have all these "Fighter A can't see Fighter B move" instances and yet have multiple cases of fighters obviously tracking and dodging fighters several times above them.

[Insertclevername]

Most think that was possible because Kaio-Ken X3 made Goku's power drop to a level where his attack would be equal with Vegeta's.

I'm without my manga volume at the moment; what kind of damage did Gokuu receive prior to the beam struggle? I know his torso got sort of burned but the rest is foggy.

[Bando]

Most think that was possible because Kaio-Ken X3 made Goku's power drop to a level where his attack would be equal with Vegeta's.

I'm without my manga volume at the moment; what kind of damage did Gokuu receive prior to the beam struggle? I know his torso got sort of burned but the rest is foggy.

He fought Nappa for a while, got pummeled by Vegeta, used Kaio-ken multiple times and sequentially damaged his body (he wasn't supposed to use anything over 2x).

[Kamiccolo9]

Most think that was possible because Kaio-Ken X3 made Goku's power drop to a level where his attack would be equal with Vegeta's.

I'm without my manga volume at the moment; what kind of damage did Gokuu receive prior to the beam struggle? I know his torso got sort of burned but the rest is foggy.

The Evolution of Goku's Power Level segment of Daizenshuu 7 has his power level at 32,000 during the Kaio-Ken x4. That would put it at 24,000 for the x3, which is the Kamehameha that Vegeta was matching with his Galic Gun.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

So, if Goku's power didn't drop from using Kaio-Ken x3, Vegeta's Gyarikku Ho would most definitely be above 18,000 here, right? I'd be fine with this.

What's your opinion on Nappa and Vegeta being able to change their Battle Power through powerful Chi-attacks?

[Kamiccolo9]

So, if Goku's power didn't drop from using Kaio-Ken x3, Vegeta's Gyarikku Ho would most definitely be above 18,000 here, right? I'd be fine with this.

What's your opinion on Nappa and Vegeta being able to change their Battle Power through powerful Chi-attacks?

I'm fine with that, for their ki attacks. That's just forcing their energy into a single spot. Raditz was surprised about it, but Nappa and Vegeta are elite warriors, so I can see how they'd do it. Otherwise, there would be no difference between the Galic Gun, and that generic fireball attack that Vegeta did.

As for "powering up" without using a special technique, no. It's pretty clear that Vegeta and Nappa can't alter their ki by powering up. That's a whole other beast entirely than shoving a bunch of ki into an attack.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Oh, cool. That's a good explanation on things.

[ZombieVito]

If they can't amp their attacks, they can't increase their BP and viceversa.

[Kamiccolo9]

If they can't amp their attacks, they can't increase their BP and viceversa.

Nothing ever says that.

[TheGmGoken]

If they can't amp their attacks, they can't increase their BP and viceversa.

They can most likely amp their attacks. So you're telling me that little fireball thing is just as strong as Vegeta's Gyarikku Hou. So i guess Goku would have an epic clash with a Kaioken x4 kamehameha against that fire attack. If that fire attack can match Kaioken x4 Kamehameha according to your logic then the fire blast should had done WAY more damage to Goku.

[ZombieVito]

Not all attacks are amped....

[TheGmGoken]

Not all attacks are amped....

Gyarikku Hou and Nappa's canon are. Plus no one said that all attacks are amp. His said only certain attacks

[ZombieVito]

Then why say that fireball attack was amped? It clearly wasn't.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Which attack was the fireball? The one that burned some of Goku's shirt?

[ZombieVito]

Which attack was the fireball? The one that burned some of Goku's shirt?

Yep.

[TheGmGoken]

Then why say that fireball attack was amped? It clearly wasn't.

I never said that. I said going by YOUR LOGIC. Remember when you said

If they can't amp their attacks, they can't increase their BP and viceversa.

. Then I replied saying with THAT logic If they can't amp their attacks because they can't amp their BP then his fire ball is the same power as Garlic Canon

Which attack was the fireball? The one that burned some of Goku's shirt?

Yes.

[Kamiccolo9]

Which attack was the fireball? The one that burned some of Goku's shirt?

I don't know the actual name of the attack. I just called it a fireball because it looked like, well, a fireball
This is an anime picture, but the same attack's in the manga

Spoiler:

[ZombieVito]

. Then I replied saying with THAT logic If they can't amp their attacks because they can't amp their BP then his fire ball is the same power as Garlic Canon

But they can amp their BP and attacks, I don't believe Daiz BS.

Seriously, they can control their ki to amp an attack but they can control it to suppressed it? Not buying it. Theirs a lot of examples they did power up in the Saiyan saga.