oh, my mistake i misunderstood sorryTheDevilsCorpse wrote:No, I'm not talking about replaying the story mode itself. I'm aware of the Time Vault. The dialogue about what happens when you don't deal with them comes from a Trunks interaction near the Parallel Quest station (where Taino usually is) early in the game. You can't retrigger these events without restarting the game though.
There's no reason for Toriyama to have had Goku comment that Enma must have had a hand in Uub's reincarnation if he, in actuality, didn't.It directly says that Buu reincarnated that fast because of him being pure evil. What wasn't said - wasn't said. So Enma doesn't have anything to do with this according to Toriyama.
Except that Piccolo outright establishes that he was the reincarnation of Daimao, thus Daimao transferred his life to his egg to keep him from dying. Goku himself never believed he could defeat Cell, and it was established he fought Cell first just to give Gohan an advantage. As for the other "examples" you gave, they only ended up being "wrong" or "inaccurate" because events transpired after his statement that changed the capabilities of the enemy. Goku couldn't anticipate Cell self-destructing and regenerating to a more powerful form (which even Cell didn't foresee), he couldn't anticipate Buu transforming into Evil Buu after splitting and absorbing Mr. Buu, and he couldn't anticipate Buu outright having the capacity to absorb Gotenks and Piccolo. Every time he's made his statement/assumption though, with the facts at the time, he was correct.But you can't cheat the death. Every person who dies goes to the after life, with the only exception being people killed by members of Mazoku clan. Goku's assumptions always tend to be proven false. He thought he would defeat Cell, he lost. He thought that his son could defeat Cell, but it took Android 16 dying, Goku dying and Vegeta helping for this finally been able to happen. He also thought that kids would defeat Buu, they failed, he thought that Gohan would defeat Buu, he failed. Pretty much most of Goku's assumptions failed, I don't see why his assumptions should be viewed as something definite, while he barely knows something about how after life works and barely knows anything at all.
There's never been any decisive evidence that he can sense Kaiou's ki. The instances of him using the Shunkan Idou to travel to his planet could just as easily be using Bubbles as a target. There's never been a statement or direct indication that he could sense Kaiou's ki.Moreover Kaio's ki was felt by Goku, and he is a deity as well.
Given that it's indicated as being a part of his base form now, it's not something he can just use or not use. Every time he transforms now into a Super Saiya-jin, his hair should be the blue that we see in Revival of F. Likewise, given what we've seen, god ki has far less impact on the body than Super Saiya-jin 3, so even if the god ki were something he could switch on and off (which isn't indicated), then it'd still have been far more advantageous to use it over Ssj3 for the few times he tried.As for why Goku didn't use this godly energy, why should he?
That doesn't change in the slightest though that, on a same level basis, they were equal in strength. Following the Ma-jin charm, Vegeta's strength was equal to Goku's in the respective form, thus if that continued on with Battle of Gods and Revival of F, then they'd be relatively equal in their respective forms still.But Vegeta didn't achieve it even now, and even after Ma-jin seal and rage boost in BoG, that means that Goku had muuuuuch more training than Vegeta, and he still didn't keep up with him even now.
He specifically states that he liked the idea of Goku turning into a kid, and would have used it if he had made another manga. That's all that can readily be taken from the line.Nah. He is exactly saying that he would draw a new manga using the story of GT if he wanted to, as for him not wanting to draw manga, he doesn't want to do it even now. Hence why there is a manga adaptation of FnF made by Toyble out of all people. There is no difference between his statement about BoG and GT, they are the same.
Until Minus came out, it was always considered in the manga's continuity, at least in part. Given that the two panels Toriyama drew for the manga matched exactly what was shown in the special, there was no reason to assume otherwise.Bardock's special was never in manga continuity.
I just restarted the game on my Japanese account. I'm going to have to do this again for data collection because there are a TON of things that are only said once, and I keep missing things...Like Trunks actually mentioning that he's not supposed to do Time Patrols in eras where he or people he knows exist. It's not a real explanation as to why he shouldn't, but at least it answers my question of why he never got off his ass for 95% of the game.ZeroTheSuperSaiyan wrote:how about looking for a let's play on youtube, there is bound to be someone who caught that part of the game?
For starters, Piccolo had 4 digits, not 3, in the manga. He was missing one finger.90sDBZ wrote:The whole "GT follows the anime while the new movies follow the manga" argument makes no sense to me. To start with Piccolo still has 5 digits on each hand in the new movies unlike the 3 he has in the manga. Another thing is all the powerlevel inconsistencies that crop up. Vegeta never got rageboosts in the manga, not even when Trunks got killed by Cell. In the anime he was actually pretty overpowered at times, surviving a beating from Buuhan and damaging Kid Buu in Base Form for instance.
If you ask me both GT and the new movies are 2 different alternate sequels to the anime and not the manga. I know Toriyama said he wrote BoG as if the Manga were continuing, but if that were really true then Piccolo would only have 3 digits per hand and it would have taken place after Goku leaving with Uub.
Japan has laws/regulations on depicting humanish characters with less than the standard 4 fingers and a thumb hand design because of their history with yubitsume (the act of cutting off a finger to pay for a crime, usually via the burakumin or yakuza). Using a design with less digits will result in a fine for anything intended to be shown on TV (which the films eventually are). I seriously doubt Toriyama and the rest of the staff care enough about the number of fingers Piccolo has to pay the fine and spend extra money just to maintain perfect continuity on such an issue. There's no point. I'd let them draw him with the extra finger too if I were in his shoes too.Darkprince410 wrote:For starters, Piccolo had 4 digits, not 3, in the manga. He was missing one finger.90sDBZ wrote:The whole "GT follows the anime while the new movies follow the manga" argument makes no sense to me. To start with Piccolo still has 5 digits on each hand in the new movies unlike the 3 he has in the manga. Another thing is all the powerlevel inconsistencies that crop up. Vegeta never got rageboosts in the manga, not even when Trunks got killed by Cell. In the anime he was actually pretty overpowered at times, surviving a beating from Buuhan and damaging Kid Buu in Base Form for instance.
If you ask me both GT and the new movies are 2 different alternate sequels to the anime and not the manga. I know Toriyama said he wrote BoG as if the Manga were continuing, but if that were really true then Piccolo would only have 3 digits per hand and it would have taken place after Goku leaving with Uub.
Secondly, I would imagine that Vegeta would be far more emotionally enraged by an attack on his wife of over a decade than that of the son that is "technically" his that he's only really known for a year, and even then didn't really sit all that well with.
Toriyama went on record saying the reason he chose the time frame for the movies was because that's when the characters were at their strongest, and that they were "old" by the time the manga wrapped up. Likewise, as far as the whole "digits" thing for Piccolo in the movies, it's probably because it'd be easier for those fans that have only seen the anime to accept than if they had done it with four digits instead. Those fans of the manga have most likely also watched the anime, so they're still accustomed, at least in part, to seeing Piccolo with five digits, whereas those fans of the anime may have never touched the manga at all, and thus would be extremely confused by Piccolo suddenly "missing" a finger.
well it looks like my theory needs a little tweeking but I'm happy with placing GT in a seperate timeline where BoG and FnF never happened after all it's not like the concept of alternate timelines hasn't been used in DB before just look at Miri/Future Trunks his timeline still exsists in parallel with the Z timeline (not to mention the timeline Cell came from)TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Anyway, it doesn't say anything about them blowing up. it says the time fragments are created after the Time Kaioshin reunited the torn scroll parts after a distortion. The fragments, if left alone, can lead to another distortion if the bad guys aren't defeated, so Time Patrol members must be dispatched. So it doesn't seem they can contain normal timeline divergences.
That makes even more sense. I wasn't aware of them having such regulations and just thought it was some preferential decision on Toei's part for the anime, and thus when it came to the new movies, it was decided to just keep him with the five digits because it'd be easier for fans of the manga (who had likely seen the anime) to accept him with one extra than fans of the anime (who may have never read the manga) to accept him with one less.TheDevilsCorpse wrote: Japan has laws/regulations on depicting humanish characters with less than the standard 4 fingers and a thumb hand design because of their history with yubitsume (the act of cutting off a finger to pay for a crime, usually via the burakumin or yakuza). Using a design with less digits will result in a fine for anything intended to be shown on TV (which the films eventually are). I seriously doubt Toriyama and the rest of the staff care enough about the number of fingers Piccolo has to pay the fine and spend extra money just to maintain perfect continuity on such an issue. There's no point. I'd let them draw him with the extra finger too if I were in his shoes too.
If you look through the thread somewhere, I point out that the game only specifically mentions visiting new timelines during the story when you go to the one Trunks is from and then when you visit the GT one. So there should be three during the Time Patrol Quests: Raditz-Beerus (and Demigra) is one, the future versions of 17-18 & Cell is another, and then Bebi-Super Yi Xing Long is a third.ZeroTheSuperSaiyan wrote:well it looks like my theory needs a little tweaking but I'm happy with placing GT in a separate timeline where BoG and FnF never happened after all it's not like the concept of alternate timelines hasn't been used in DB before just look at Mirai/Future Trunks his timeline still exists in parallel with the Z timeline (not to mention the timeline Cell came from)
also in the GT story mode didn't Trunks say ''a time when Goku was turned back into a child'', he could have been taking about a parallel timeline right?
Toei might though, they are pushing GT a lot in Japan with Heroes, XenoVerse DLC and the GT animangaTheDevilsCorpse wrote: Toriyama could still write a 3rd movie and try to tie the events back around to fit with GT, but I seriously doubt he will.
I doubt it. Knowing Toriyama, he is likely writing the movies with the manga in his mind set since that's the DB world that he created. He probably doesn't care too much about GT and the old DBZ movies these days. Besides having GT appear in merchandise doesn't mean anything.ZeroTheSuperSaiyan wrote:Toei might though, they are pushing GT a lot in Japan with Heroes, XenoVerse DLC and the GT animangaTheDevilsCorpse wrote: Toriyama could still write a 3rd movie and try to tie the events back around to fit with GT, but I seriously doubt he will.
But Bulma was only wounded by Beerus. In the manga both Bulma and Kid Trunks got killed by Buu yet Vegeta couldn't touch Kid Buu. And even putting the rage boost aside Vegeta still survived a considerable beating from Beerus before Bulma got hit.Darkprince410 wrote:For starters, Piccolo had 4 digits, not 3, in the manga. He was missing one finger.90sDBZ wrote:The whole "GT follows the anime while the new movies follow the manga" argument makes no sense to me. To start with Piccolo still has 5 digits on each hand in the new movies unlike the 3 he has in the manga. Another thing is all the powerlevel inconsistencies that crop up. Vegeta never got rageboosts in the manga, not even when Trunks got killed by Cell. In the anime he was actually pretty overpowered at times, surviving a beating from Buuhan and damaging Kid Buu in Base Form for instance.
If you ask me both GT and the new movies are 2 different alternate sequels to the anime and not the manga. I know Toriyama said he wrote BoG as if the Manga were continuing, but if that were really true then Piccolo would only have 3 digits per hand and it would have taken place after Goku leaving with Uub.
Secondly, I would imagine that Vegeta would be far more emotionally enraged by an attack on his wife of over a decade than that of the son that is "technically" his that he's only really known for a year, and even then didn't really sit all that well with.
Toriyama went on record saying the reason he chose the time frame for the movies was because that's when the characters were at their strongest, and that they were "old" by the time the manga wrapped up. Likewise, as far as the whole "digits" thing for Piccolo in the movies, it's probably because it'd be easier for those fans that have only seen the anime to accept than if they had done it with four digits instead. Those fans of the manga have most likely also watched the anime, so they're still accustomed, at least in part, to seeing Piccolo with five digits, whereas those fans of the anime may have never touched the manga at all, and thus would be extremely confused by Piccolo suddenly "missing" a finger.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Only a scene which is shown in the manga is a part of the manga. Everything else is not. The same with manga depiction of Bardock. Everything related to him in Bardock Special or any other material besides manga by Akira Toriyama is not a part of a manga.Dyno wrote:Yes it was (and Bardock vs Freeza scene continues to be part of the manga). Don't overstate things you don't know.
There is no reason for Toriyama to have had Trunks saying that Android 19 and 20 were the ones who caused a chaos in his timeline. It was a mistake. Vegeta was constantly saying in Namek that him, Gohan and Goku were Super Saiyans, but they weren't until Goku actually transformed into one. Vegeta constantly blabbered about him being the strongest in the universe, so did Frieza. This wasn't the case. Vegeta said that he achieved his limits, he didn't. Vegeta thought that he was stronger/cooler than anyone else, he wasn't. Raditz said that saiyans are the strongest race in the world, they weren't. Raditz said that Goku was sent to Earth to destroy it, he wasn't. Beerus said that "The thing you call "Ki" doesn't work against deities", it works. He also said that Goku was weaker than Frieza, which was very arguable. Vegeta made it look as he was possessed by Babidi, and couldn't resist, while he did it on purpose. Goku said to Vegeta that they were equal and he trained harder than him, while Vegeta had to use Babidi's power up to be barely on Goku's level, and Goku had SSJ3 all time along. And there are a lot of these examples.Darkprince410 wrote:
There's no reason for Toriyama to have had Goku comment that Enma must have had a hand in Uub's reincarnation if he, in actuality, didn't.
But the whole point of reincarnation is that it can't happen unless one person dies. The whole point of reincarnation is one soul being transferred into a new body. Just like it was with Uub.Darkprince410 wrote:Except that Piccolo outright establishes that he was the reincarnation of Daimao, thus Daimao transferred his life to his egg to keep him from dying. Goku himself never believed he could defeat Cell, and it was established he fought Cell first just to give Gohan an advantage. As for the other "examples" you gave, they only ended up being "wrong" or "inaccurate" because events transpired after his statement that changed the capabilities of the enemy. Goku couldn't anticipate Cell self-destructing and regenerating to a more powerful form (which even Cell didn't foresee), he couldn't anticipate Buu transforming into Evil Buu after splitting and absorbing Mr. Buu, and he couldn't anticipate Buu outright having the capacity to absorb Gotenks and Piccolo. Every time he's made his statement/assumption though, with the facts at the time, he was correct.
Darkprince410 wrote:So in this case, without there being new information suggesting Goku's statement about Enma having a hand in it was wrong, then there's no evidence that he was incorrect..
It was stated though, that it is very hard, if not impossible to feel the person with a very low amount of ki, especially in long distances. And I highly doubt that Bubbles was stronger than even guys in 1 part of Dragon Ball.Darkprince410 wrote:
There's never been any decisive evidence that he can sense Kaiou's ki. The instances of him using the Shunkan Idou to travel to his planet could just as easily be using Bubbles as a target. There's never been a statement or direct indication that he could sense Kaiou's ki.
And why Beerus can be wounded by a simple punch then, if simple Ki doesn't affect people with Godly Energy? What happened with his original Ki?Darkprince410 wrote:Given that it's indicated as being a part of his base form now, it's not something he can just use or not use. Every time he transforms now into a Super Saiya-jin, his hair should be the blue that we see in Revival of F. Likewise, given what we've seen, god ki has far less impact on the body than Super Saiya-jin 3, so even if the god ki were something he could switch on and off (which isn't indicated), then it'd still have been far more advantageous to use it over Ssj3 for the few times he tried.
Vegeta was equal to Goku only because of his Majin boost, and Goku still had SSJ3 the whole time. After his death Vegeta lost his Majin boost and never learned SSJ3, so Goku should have been always stronger than him after this.Darkprince410 wrote:That doesn't change in the slightest though that, on a same level basis, they were equal in strength. Following the Ma-jin charm, Vegeta's strength was equal to Goku's in the respective form, thus if that continued on with Battle of Gods and Revival of F, then they'd be relatively equal in their respective forms still.
But he didn't use it in BoG. That's a key point here. And he specifically mentions a word "story", though it may be indeed interpreted in different ways.Darkprince410 wrote: He specifically states that he liked the idea of Goku turning into a kid, and would have used it if he had made another manga. That's all that can readily be taken from the line.
But Toriyama never stated that it was a part of manga continuity, and it was an anime special, not manga, so it is just fair to assume that it was always in anime's continuity.Darkprince410 wrote:Until Minus came out, it was always considered in the manga's continuity, at least in part. Given that the two panels Toriyama drew for the manga matched exactly what was shown in the special, there was no reason to assume otherwise.
This is the way I see it as well90sDBZ wrote:The whole "GT follows the anime while the new movies follow the manga" argument makes no sense to me. To start with Piccolo still has 5 digits on each hand in the new movies unlike the 3 he has in the manga. Another thing is all the powerlevel inconsistencies that crop up. Vegeta never got rageboosts in the manga, not even when Trunks got killed by Cell. In the anime he was actually pretty overpowered at times, surviving a beating from Buuhan and damaging Kid Buu in Base Form for instance.
If you ask me both GT and the new movies are 2 different alternate sequels to the anime and not the manga. I know Toriyama said he wrote BoG as if the Manga were continuing, but if that were really true then Piccolo would only have 3 digits per hand and it would have taken place after Goku leaving with Uub.
As for movies 1-13 and GT, I like to think that GT actually does follow the Z anime and that something similar to those movies, but not exactly like them, DID happen in the Z anime/GT-verse in a way that allows them all to fit in. For example lets say Cooler actually did show up during the 3 year Android training, except Goku just went Super Saiyan at will and beat him easily.
Marco Polo wrote:He almost got Videl killed in Battle of Gods tho.Hellspawn28 wrote:Cool to see Gohan have a kill for once. He hasn't killed someone since Cell (or Broli if you want to count in General).
