Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

[404FILENOTFOUND]

I dont know how people can defend the lack of character usage in Super. That is obviously a huge problem

Lack of character usage how? Now whether the way they are used is positive or negative, that's for you to decide but I don't think there is unless you hoped for them to use every single character introduced then I think you're reaching for the stars a bit too much there. For example, I rather not see Yamcha at all or at least see him spectating than waste time trying to fight a God.

[Lord Beerus]

I dont know how people can defend the lack of character usage in Super. That is obviously a huge problem

I don't think anyone is really defending it. I think the lack of character usage is just something that always seems to go hand-in-hand with the power creep that has plagued the series since the Saiyan arc.

[IGhostUlt]

I dont know how people can defend the lack of character usage in Super. That is obviously a huge problem

Lack of character usage how? Now whether the way they are used is positive or negative, that's for you to decide but I don't think there is unless you hoped for them to use every single character introduced then I think you're reaching for the stars a bit too much there. For example, I rather not see Yamcha at all or at least see him spectating than waste time trying to fight a God.

If you think character usage is fine in Super, then you must not care about the other characters. Z executed the other characters a lot better as an example.

[emi_b7]

I agree that the cast hasn't been used well, but I think people exaggerate with the "Goku and Vegeta show" thing. Beerus, Whis and Bulma have been featured quite a lot so far. Champa, Monaka and, to a lesser extent, Vados, Hit, Cabba and maybe Frost had some moments during their arc too, and they seem likely to reappear soon. Both Satan and Pan have been high points of the show when they appear IMO.
As with everything else in the show, the character usage was pretty bad in the retellings (you can only use so many characters in a movie though) and seems to be improving in the current arc.
On that note, I don't have a problem with Gohan not fighting but there are 2 problems IMO: 1) they are pretty vague about what he is actually doing, they should show us wtf is he doing and have him achieve something in whatever field he is working and 2) sometimes they give clear signs that he won't fight anymore (the last episode for example) and other times they build him up (like his training after Freeza's death), make up your mind already!. I'm perfectly fine with Gohan not being a fighter anymore, but I understand his fans' frustrations.
They should definetly give Piccolo something to do though, he is just kind of there right now, babysitting or being bossed around by Chichi or Bulma for some reason. Goten too, but he was already barely a character to begin with. Trunks seems to be getting some development now that his future counterpart is here, that's nice to see.

[404FILENOTFOUND]

I dont know how people can defend the lack of character usage in Super. That is obviously a huge problem

Lack of character usage how? Now whether the way they are used is positive or negative, that's for you to decide but I don't think there is unless you hoped for them to use every single character introduced then I think you're reaching for the stars a bit too much there. For example, I rather not see Yamcha at all or at least see him spectating than waste time trying to fight a God.

If you think character usage is fine in Super, then you must not care about the other characters. Z executed the other characters a lot better as an example.

Should I care? This show is obviously focusing a lot on Goku and Vegeta and using them favorably (Goku and Vegeta show as the lot like to call it). My meomory may be fuzzy with the first two stories, but when Beerus came down to Earth we saw the Z fighters attempt to stop Beerus and saw Videl help get Goku to SSG. We watched them once again fight Frieza's henchmen. Whis and Beerus help train the two of them while Champa and Vados, helping with the initiating of the tournament, helping introduce concepts such as how universes work in the DB franchise, the super dragon balls, time rings, etc. We see Hit, Cabba, Frost, Botamo and Magetta fight their fights along with Piccolo and Monaka. Future Trunks fights off Black to return to the present, Future Mai uses herself as a distraction to help FT get to the time machine. Bulma with Mr. Briefs is helping rebuild Cell's time machine. The Pilaf gang is just...there, heck Hercule has his own episode that is more entertaining than all of the Pilaf gang's scene combined but that is my opinion.

As I said, whether these usages are positive or negative is up to you. I will agree that Z had more positive character usage than Super has had but to say there is a lack, I would have to disagree.

[Rip the Jacker]

I really isn't that bad. My main problem with it is that I wanted more Z, yet this is something entirely different. No adventure or anything epic. It's more like dB reality tv. I like it, it just isn't what I waited all these years for. This is an aspect where GT is far and away better than Super at. Then there's, like, no main cast. We have a sayain duo and that's it! I need a full cast. Super has got to broaden it's cast. Goku and a good guy vegeta get boring by themselves. I'd be fine if super spent some time building an actual main cast again.

[TheMikado]

I really isn't that bad. My main problem with it is that I wanted more Z, yet this is something entirely different. No adventure or anything epic. It's more like dB reality tv. I like it, it just isn't what I waited all these years for. This is an aspect where GT is far and away better than Super at. Then there's, like, no main cast. We have a sayain duo and that's it! I need a full cast. Super has got to broaden it's cast. Goku and a good guy vegeta get boring by themselves. I'd be fine if super spent some time building an actual main cast again.

Exactly. Super is NOT DBZ. GT despite all its flaws is actually closer to Z more so than Super is. That being said, Super isn't terrible but for people who actually wanted more Z, this isn't the show for them. It's watchable, and sometimes enjoyable but if you really liked Z specifically and wanted more of that, you were probably let down.

[perucho1990]

I dont know how people can defend the lack of character usage in Super. That is obviously a huge problem

The main point of a show is to entertain people, no matter which characters are used.

In Super case, they want the plot/story to carry the show unlike Z which had the action carry the show since there was barely a plot.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

I dont know how people can defend the lack of character usage in Super. That is obviously a huge problem

The main point of a show is to entertain people, no matter which characters are used.

In Super case, they want the plot/story to carry the show unlike Z which had the action carry the show since there was barely a plot.

I agree with this.

[Anime Kitten]

I agree with this.

Not to be a mod here, but the rules say:

Please think about your contributions before making them; a simple “Yes” or “I agree”, while having a perfectly fine sentiment behind them, do not actually add anything substantial to the on-going conversations.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

I agree with this.

Not to be a mod here, but the rules say:

Please think about your contributions before making them; a simple “Yes” or “I agree”, while having a perfectly fine sentiment behind them, do not actually add anything substantial to the on-going conversations.

Oh Okay, thanks for the advice friend.

[StrawHatPatriot]

Oddly enough... gohan being out of commission is something I'm okay with.

I mean, come on guys, it makes perfect sense for his character arc! He never had a natural drive to fight - he only fought either when he was forced to, or if he needed to protect people close to him.

He never had the instinct that Goku, Vegeta, Goten, and Kid Trunks have. So it makes sense that he would want to live a normal life when the earth is at peace.


If anything, y'all should be more pissed off about Goten. He's been essentially written out of the show, even though he and kid trunks like fighting (at least in the Buu Saga), and it's been pretty much established so far that half sayians have more potential than full-bloods.

[Kagari]

Oddly enough... gohan being out of commission is something I'm okay with.

I mean, come on guys, it makes perfect sense for his character arc! He never had a natural drive to fight - he only fought either when he was forced to, or if he needed to protect people close to him.

He never had the instinct that Goku, Vegeta, Goten, and Kid Trunks have. So it makes sense that he would want to live a normal life when the earth is at peace.


If anything, y'all should be more pissed off about Goten. He's been essentially written out of the show, even though he and kid trunks like fighting (at least in the Buu Saga), and it's been pretty much established so far that half sayians have more potential than full-bloods.

In general Toriyama should have followed through on his whole "let the younger generation take over" idea because as you said, Goten (and by extension Gohan and Kid Trunks) is pretty much doing nothing these days.

[StrawHatPatriot]

Oddly enough... gohan being out of commission is something I'm okay with.

I mean, come on guys, it makes perfect sense for his character arc! He never had a natural drive to fight - he only fought either when he was forced to, or if he needed to protect people close to him.

He never had the instinct that Goku, Vegeta, Goten, and Kid Trunks have. So it makes sense that he would want to live a normal life when the earth is at peace.


If anything, y'all should be more pissed off about Goten. He's been essentially written out of the show, even though he and kid trunks like fighting (at least in the Buu Saga), and it's been pretty much established so far that half sayians have more potential than full-bloods.

In general Toriyama should have followed through on his whole "let the younger generation take over" idea because as you said, Goten (and by extension Gohan and Kid Trunks) is pretty much doing nothing these days.

Personaly, I can see both sides; I want the supporting characters to be relevant, but I'm not sure they can carry the show.

[spoiler](Although a great saiyaman spinoff series would be great though. It would be Gohan's adventures with Videl, goten and trunks, and now and then the show gets serious and we see this crew ..)[/spoiler]

Sometimes, it feels like Toriyama regrets the Buu Saga, haha. Almost everything from it is either nullified, or gone. SSJ3 is useless, Goten is nonexistant, Kid Trunks is there but useless, Videl is not even a character anymore, Majin Buu is nonexistent, Vegeta is back to being on par with Goku again, etc. Not to mention the ages of the characters, and the virtually nullified EoZ timeline.

[TekTheNinja]

Its because other shows have their MAIN cast consisting of around 4-5 people? Togashi did it with HxH and YYH, Araki Hirohiko did it with JJBA.

That's why you shift focus. Obviously you can't have focus on all characters at all times, but other characters NEVER get focus in Super.

The key word is main cast, it doesnt make sense to give ur support cast more screen/panel time than ur Main Cast, otherwise u turn ur series into something like Bleach, where they have over 26 support characters and with some of them more relevant than the series main cast.

Sidelining the main characters works sometimes. Like when Goku in the Cell arc, or Edward Elric when he kinda went missing.

If we go beyond EoZ, its clear Pan and Uub will be part of the Main Cast. Piccolo might still be relevant, as a mentor for the youngters.

Super sadly will probably never go past EoZ. It should have, but I honestly doubt at this point that they will EVER do it.

It's Not a Z sequel

Hell, it barely even feels like it's a Dragon Ball series at all. It's more like a bad sitcom that happens to feature flanderized DB characters.

[Alee9977]

The way I see it, DBS is likely to continue after EoZ or even change some things about that ending, I mean, wasn't Toriyama unhappy with that ending?.
There are a lot of possibilities since the introduction of the 12 universes and Toriyama and Toei will take adventage of this.

[Nejishiki]

Unhappy in what regard? He had no trouble with redrawing it a bit for the Kanzenban and his adverseness towards writing a story directly after it suggests he prefers Dragon Ball ending on the note of an, "And the adventure continues...", type of conclusion.

[sintzu]

Wasn't Toriyama unhappy with that ending ?

This is what he said about it in an interview he did this year :

"When the kanzenban came out several years later, I added a bit more to the ending. I thought that somehow it just didn’t click. I wanted to make it more clear that Goku’s battles were over, and that a new generation was taking over"

There's more info about the franchise in the rest of it :

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... interview/

It's clear that to him, Goku didn't have anymore battles after the 28th Tenkaichi so the chances of him making anything after it are slim to non unless it focused on the next generation which I doubt Toei and the other companies will want to do.

However, I don't think he'll be writing DB forever so whenever he's done with Super I think Toei will start a new show that'll be set after the 28th Tenkaichi.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The way I see it, DBS is likely to continue after EoZ or even change some things about that ending, I mean, wasn't Toriyama unhappy with that ending?.
There are a lot of possibilities since the introduction of the 12 universes and Toriyama and Toei will take adventage of this.

Super starting pre-EoZ makes sense and was a wise decision but that this point the most sensible approach I think would be to ignore EoZ and over-write it. The longer Super goes on the harder things falling inline with EoZ become, plus it gives them greater creative control by ignoring it.

[TekTheNinja]

Wasn't Toriyama unhappy with that ending ?

This is what he said about it in an interview he did this year :

"When the kanzenban came out several years later, I added a bit more to the ending. I thought that somehow it just didn’t click. I wanted to make it more clear that Goku’s battles were over, and that a new generation was taking over"

There's more info about the franchise in the rest of it :

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... interview/

It's clear that to him, Goku didn't have anymore battles after the 28th Tenkaichi so the chances of him making anything after it are slim to non unless it focused on the next generation which I doubt Toei and the other companies will want to do.

However, I don't think he'll be writing DB forever so whenever he's done with Super I think Toei will start a new show that'll be set after the 28th Tenkaichi.

Imagine a series that takes place after End of Z and has Goku in an almost Roshi type mentor role to Pan, Uub, and maybe even Goten and Trunks. It would be great! Sadly though it will probably never happen.

The way I see it, DBS is likely to continue after EoZ or even change some things about that ending, I mean, wasn't Toriyama unhappy with that ending?.
There are a lot of possibilities since the introduction of the 12 universes and Toriyama and Toei will take adventage of this.

Super starting pre-EoZ makes sense and was a wise decision but that this point the most sensible approach I think would be to ignore EoZ and over-write it. The longer Super goes on the harder things falling inline with EoZ become, plus it gives them greater creative control by ignoring it.

No. A wise decision would be to go past EoZ with a time skip. I don't like the ending much at all, but flat out ignoring it is a stupid idea.