People are getting tired of Goku and here is why

[TBMx]

Toriyama: At any rate, I wanted him to have the sense of being that rare guy who seeks only “to become stronger than before”, so much so that it feels like “there’s no one as pure as this person”. And while he does end up saving everyone as a result of that, he himself at least has a very pure sincerity about “wanting to become stronger”. What I wanted to depict the most was the sense that he might not be a good guy at all, although he does do good things as a result.

AkiraToriyama:
Out of all your characters, which one is the most (blank)?

Cool: Goku

“I think it’s Goku.” The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!

Pure = Shallow = Unchallenging to write.

People saying Vegeta will get a big win or moment in the tournament... Let me remind you that this is the same writer who would rather turn back time in order to make sure Goku steals the win. SO fully expect Goku to shove himself back in the spotlight and steal major victories from the other characters.

Open wide. It's Goku time.

[Jigurashi]

Toriyama: At any rate, I wanted him to have the sense of being that rare guy who seeks only “to become stronger than before”, so much so that it feels like “there’s no one as pure as this person”. And while he does end up saving everyone as a result of that, he himself at least has a very pure sincerity about “wanting to become stronger”. What I wanted to depict the most was the sense that he might not be a good guy at all, although he does do good things as a result.

AkiraToriyama:
Out of all your characters, which one is the most (blank)?

Cool: Goku

“I think it’s Goku.” The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!

Pure = Shallow = Unchallenging to write.

People saying Vegeta will get a big win or moment in the tournament... Let me remind you that this is the same writer who would rather turn back time in order to make sure Goku steals the win. SO fully expect Goku to shove himself back in the spotlight and steal major victories from the other characters.

Open wide. It's Goku time.

Never understood why people keep saying stuff like this when that has never happened. Just comes off as salt or hate. As for Vegeta, a big win I assume would defeating a top tier like Hitto or Toppo.

[MajinMan]

I find it funny how, as fans, some of us put ourselves in this state of mind where we have to have a favorite character that we worship above all else. Like nothing else matters as long as said character gets to shine or gets screentime. And as soon as someone criticizes or pokes fun at that character, even if it's in a joking manner, they must initiate the defense force and prepare to fire back. It's just something I've come to realize over the past few years.

[SsjCookie]

Toriyama: At any rate, I wanted him to have the sense of being that rare guy who seeks only “to become stronger than before”, so much so that it feels like “there’s no one as pure as this person”. And while he does end up saving everyone as a result of that, he himself at least has a very pure sincerity about “wanting to become stronger”. What I wanted to depict the most was the sense that he might not be a good guy at all, although he does do good things as a result.

AkiraToriyama:
Out of all your characters, which one is the most (blank)?

Cool: Goku

“I think it’s Goku.” The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!

Pure = Shallow = Unchallenging to write.

People saying Vegeta will get a big win or moment in the tournament... Let me remind you that this is the same writer who would rather turn back time in order to make sure Goku steals the win. SO fully expect Goku to shove himself back in the spotlight and steal major victories from the other characters.

Open wide. It's Goku time.

I'm SO not watching this series anymore.

[HeroR]

The Z fighter's fght against Nappa.
The last part of the fight against Vegeta.
A good amount of Namek.
Most of the android/Cell arc.
The middle part of the Buu arc.

Goku was unquestionablly the main character of DBZ but unlike Super's anime, he wasn't forced into everything and each of the other characters got their fair share of screen time. Thankfully the manga is following this writing style and isn't trying to be GT 2.0 like its anime counterpart.

Wanna know what I think?

Goku wasn't absent in those instances you mentioned because Toriyama wanted other characters to shine. He was absent in order to c*&k tease the readers and make them salivate for their glorious hero's inevitable return. He wanted them to go "Enough with those lame-os! When will Goku arrive to beat Piccolo? To beat Nappa? To beat Vegeta? To beat Frieza? To beat the androids? To beat Cell? To beat Boo?"

Goku was always the main focus of Dragon Ball, and I hated that. But it is what it is.

The other characters' function is to literally fail in order to show how badass and amazing Goku is.

Goku one-shotted Recoome when everyone else was literally fighting him tooth and nail for 3-4 episodes. What was the point? Why save Recoome for Goku when Goku can beat him with one punch? Simple. To show us how A-MAZING he is compared to the other weaklings. Why one-shot Drum when Tien could've beaten him and fall to Daimaoh (since Daimaoh *was* Goku's prey)? To show us how badass he is compared to that weakling, Tien. Why *literally* kill the entire fighting cast by Nappa, only to humiliate him with Goku without breaking a sweat? To show us how amazing he is compared to the other weaklings. Why give a supposedly amazing match between SSJ2 Goku and Majin SSJ2 Vegeta, only to reveal us later on that Goku was toying with his 'rival' and could one-shot him whenever he wanted by going SSJ3? Oh yeah, that's right - so that he could show us how fucking awesome he is.

In the original DragonBall, the entire cast is basically used as cheerleaders whenever Goku fought. To cry when he's hurt, to laugh when he wins. That's it. His fucking cheerleaders.

The android saga confused the readers and made them believe this is some kind of Avengers comic book where everyone gets a chance to shine. This isn't the case. It was just the exception that made the rule.

So true.

Some are just show blind by their favoritism and bias that they really can't see that the cast of Z really existed to wanked Goku, either by always talking about him (when will he arrived, get better, get stronger, our last hope) or to lose horribly just so Goku can clean up the mess and they cheer for him. Goku wasn't absent to give other 'shine', he was absent to keep from ending the plot too soon.

Toriyama: At any rate, I wanted him to have the sense of being that rare guy who seeks only “to become stronger than before”, so much so that it feels like “there’s no one as pure as this person”. And while he does end up saving everyone as a result of that, he himself at least has a very pure sincerity about “wanting to become stronger”. What I wanted to depict the most was the sense that he might not be a good guy at all, although he does do good things as a result.

AkiraToriyama:
Out of all your characters, which one is the most (blank)?

Cool: Goku

“I think it’s Goku.” The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!

Pure = Shallow = Unchallenging to write.

People saying Vegeta will get a big win or moment in the tournament... Let me remind you that this is the same writer who would rather turn back time in order to make sure Goku steals the win. SO fully expect Goku to shove himself back in the spotlight and steal major victories from the other characters.

Open wide. It's Goku time.

I honestly want that to happened just so I can read you and others reactions. And turn back time so Goku can steal a win for a Vegeta, who allowed the Earth to get blown up. Maybe Whis shouldn't have rewind time so Vegeta can stay dead.

[namekiansaiyan]

The Z fighter's fght against Nappa.
The last part of the fight against Vegeta.
A good amount of Namek.
Most of the android/Cell arc.
The middle part of the Buu arc.

Goku was unquestionablly the main character of DBZ but unlike Super's anime, he wasn't forced into everything and each of the other characters got their fair share of screen time. Thankfully the manga is following this writing style and isn't trying to be GT 2.0 like its anime counterpart.

Wanna know what I think?

Goku wasn't absent in those instances you mentioned because Toriyama wanted other characters to shine. He was absent in order to c*&k tease the readers and make them salivate for their glorious hero's inevitable return. He wanted them to go "Enough with those lame-os! When will Goku arrive to beat Piccolo? To beat Nappa? To beat Vegeta? To beat Frieza? To beat the androids? To beat Cell? To beat Boo?"

Goku was always the main focus of Dragon Ball, and I hated that. But it is what it is.

The other characters' function is to literally fail in order to show how badass and amazing Goku is.

Goku one-shotted Recoome when everyone else was literally fighting him tooth and nail for 3-4 episodes. What was the point? Why save Recoome for Goku when Goku can beat him with one punch? Simple. To show us how A-MAZING he is compared to the other weaklings. Why one-shot Drum when Tien could've beaten him and fall to Daimaoh (since Daimaoh *was* Goku's prey)? To show us how badass he is compared to that weakling, Tien. Why *literally* kill the entire fighting cast by Nappa, only to humiliate him with Goku without breaking a sweat? To show us how amazing he is compared to the other weaklings. Why give a supposedly amazing match between SSJ2 Goku and Majin SSJ2 Vegeta, only to reveal us later on that Goku was toying with his 'rival' and could one-shot him whenever he wanted by going SSJ3? Oh yeah, that's right - so that he could show us how fucking awesome he is.

In the original DragonBall, the entire cast is basically used as cheerleaders whenever Goku fought. To cry when he's hurt, to laugh when he wins. That's it. His fucking cheerleaders.

The android saga confused the readers and made them believe this is some kind of Avengers comic book where everyone gets a chance to shine. This isn't the case. It was just the exception that made the rule.

So true.

Some are just show blind by their favoritism and biasthat they really can't see that the cast of Z really existed to wanked Goku, either by always talking about him (when will he arrived, get better, get stronger, our last hope) or to lose horribly just so Goku can clean up the mess and they cheer for him. Goku wasn't absent to give other 'shine', he was absent to keep from ending the plot too soon.

Toriyama: At any rate, I wanted him to have the sense of being that rare guy who seeks only “to become stronger than before”, so much so that it feels like “there’s no one as pure as this person”. And while he does end up saving everyone as a result of that, he himself at least has a very pure sincerity about “wanting to become stronger”. What I wanted to depict the most was the sense that he might not be a good guy at all, although he does do good things as a result.

AkiraToriyama:
Out of all your characters, which one is the most (blank)?

Cool: Goku

“I think it’s Goku.” The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!

Pure = Shallow = Unchallenging to write.

People saying Vegeta will get a big win or moment in the tournament... Let me remind you that this is the same writer who would rather turn back time in order to make sure Goku steals the win. SO fully expect Goku to shove himself back in the spotlight and steal major victories from the other characters.

Open wide. It's Goku time.

I honestly want that to happened just so I can read you and others reactions. And turn back time so Goku can steal a win for a Vegeta, who allowed the Earth to get blown up. Maybe Whis shouldn't have rewind time so Vegeta can stay dead.

You are a Goku fan so this is your favouritism coming out so it us not just fans of other characters.

[HeroR]

You are a Goku fan so this is your favouritism coming out so it us not just fans of other characters.

How am I showing favoritism to Goku when I said that Goku was outright wanked in Z and made the entire secondary cast cannon fodder and Super is good for letting characters being able to function as Goku's equals instead of always benching him so the cannon fodder can struggle and then have Goku solved the issue in seconds. As a Piccolo fan, did you enjoy Piccolo getting manhandled by Nappa and killed, while Goku turned Nappa into his bitch? Or how Goku got a giant power jumped that allowed him to fight final form Freeza, while Piccolo could only do anything against second form Freeza after he fused with someone?

Goku is my favorite, which is why I hate when he's a plot device created so other characters can suck up to him.

But nope, I'm a blind Goku fan. Whatever.

[Michsi]

Wanna know what I think?

Goku wasn't absent in those instances you mentioned because Toriyama wanted other characters to shine. He was absent in order to c*&k tease the readers and make them salivate for their glorious hero's inevitable return. He wanted them to go "Enough with those lame-os! When will Goku arrive to beat Piccolo? To beat Nappa? To beat Vegeta? To beat Frieza? To beat the androids? To beat Cell? To beat Boo?"

Goku was always the main focus of Dragon Ball, and I hated that. But it is what it is.

The other characters' function is to literally fail in order to show how badass and amazing Goku is.

That is true, but I think most already understand that. It was always about Goku, it will always be about Goku. However, whether by design or by accident, during those periods of absence that were supposed to build up to his great return, other characters got memorable moments in the spotlight. Gohan and Krillin vs. Vegeta vs. Freeza during the Namek arc, Piccolo vs. #17, the whole melee over #18, Gotenks vs. Buu, etc.; these stick out as great and/or interesting moments in the series.

Until he entered the stage, others had a go at the bad guy, and even if they failed, the struggle was still worth it.

The current installment doesn't even have that.

Though I guess what some people were hoping for with Super was that they'd see this bias towards Goku's as a flaw and try to correct it by leveling other characters up, power wise and story wise. But they don't. I believe the vast majority like Goku and his status of near invincibility. He's practically a symbol of shonen manga MC.

[HeroR]

That is true, but I think most already understand that. It was always about Goku, it will always be about Goku. However, whether by design or by accident, during those periods of absence that were supposed to build up to his great return, other characters got memorable moments in the spotlight. Gohan and Krillin vs. Vegeta vs. Freeza during the Namek arc, Piccolo vs. #17, the whole melee over #18, Gotenks vs. Buu, etc.; these stick out as great and/or interesting moments in the series.

Until he entered the stage, other's had a go at the bad guy, and even if they failed, the struggle was still worth it.

The current installment doesn't even have that.

Though I guess what some people were hoping for with Super was that they'd see this bias towards Goku's as a flaw and try to correct it by leveling other characters up, power wise and story wise. But they don't. I believe the vast majority like Goku and his status of near invincibility. He's practically a symbol of shonen manga MC.

Gohan and Buu fought in the exhibition with Buu getting a fan-favorite fight. Gohan got a fight where he actually used his head and outsmarted his opponent.

Everyone got a moment to shine in their recruitment outside of Tien and Vegeta.

In the tournament, Vegeta is tied with knock outs with Goku and helped U9 get erased. 17 and 18 have helped out Goku several times with 17 getting another fan-favorite fight. Krillin got an entire episode to himself when he got three knock outs.

What do you mean "current installment doesn't even have that" when it comes to character moments. This is the most useful the extended cast have been in decades outside of them fighting Freeza soldiers and they're not stalling for time until 'Goku gets here'. But apparently, those don't count because Goku is on-scene and the characters can't shine as long as Goku's is breathing the same air as them.

[Michsi]

What do you mean "current installment doesn't even have that" when it comes to character moments. This is the most useful the extended cast have been in decades outside of them fighting Freeza soldiers and they're not stalling for time until 'Goku gets here'. But apparently, those don't count because Goku is on-scene and the characters can't shine as long as Goku's is breathing the same air as them.

Well, for whatever the reason, they just don't stand out, otherwise I would've thought of them, I guess. Maybe you are right, Goku being there might actually steal some of the weight other individual moments could have had, or it could be just the inherent lack of tension in Super that kinda minimizes the impact each of these fights have. Maybe it's just Z nostalgia. Who knows. As I said, I personally don't mind him being there, I just pointed out something that worked in the original story.

[Nickolaidas]

I also agree that Super, while still effectively a 'Goku Show', does make the other characters more relevant ... by narrowing the power gaps. Super goes 'fuck it' where power levels are concerned, and why many fans hate that, one cannot deny that through this choice they gave the show the opportunity to make characters like Roshi and Tien trade blows with Super Saiyans. Heck, they made Krillin fight Super Saiyan Goku (Blue)! In Z, Goku would just spit on the runt and slice his freaking head off with the saliva or something!

So for that, I commend them.

[LowRyder2005]

The Z fighter's fght against Nappa.
The last part of the fight against Vegeta.
A good amount of Namek.
Most of the android/Cell arc.
The middle part of the Buu arc.

Goku was unquestionablly the main character of DBZ but unlike Super's anime, he wasn't forced into everything and each of the other characters got their fair share of screen time. Thankfully the manga is following this writing style and isn't trying to be GT 2.0 like its anime counterpart.

Wanna know what I think?

Goku wasn't absent in those instances you mentioned because Toriyama wanted other characters to shine. He was absent in order to c*&k tease the readers and make them salivate for their glorious hero's inevitable return. He wanted them to go "Enough with those lame-os! When will Goku arrive to beat Piccolo? To beat Nappa? To beat Vegeta? To beat Frieza? To beat the androids? To beat Cell? To beat Boo?"

Goku was always the main focus of Dragon Ball, and I hated that. But it is what it is.

The other characters' function is to literally fail in order to show how badass and amazing Goku is.

Goku one-shotted Recoome when everyone else was literally fighting him tooth and nail for 3-4 episodes. What was the point? Why save Recoome for Goku when Goku can beat him with one punch? Simple. To show us how A-MAZING he is compared to the other weaklings. Why one-shot Drum when Tien could've beaten him and fall to Daimaoh (since Daimaoh *was* Goku's prey)? To show us how badass he is compared to that weakling, Tien. Why *literally* kill the entire fighting cast by Nappa, only to humiliate him with Goku without breaking a sweat? To show us how amazing he is compared to the other weaklings. Why give a supposedly amazing match between SSJ2 Goku and Majin SSJ2 Vegeta, only to reveal us later on that Goku was toying with his 'rival' and could one-shot him whenever he wanted by going SSJ3? Oh yeah, that's right - so that he could show us how fucking awesome he is.

In the original DragonBall, the entire cast is basically used as cheerleaders whenever Goku fought. To cry when he's hurt, to laugh when he wins. That's it. His fucking cheerleaders.

The android saga confused the readers and made them believe this is some kind of Avengers comic book where everyone gets a chance to shine. This isn't the case. It was just the exception that made the rule.

Gosh, I think were' going way off the extreme end.
... What's more realistical? The writing of DB or thinking that Goku would sit on the bench, come back and not have any kind of "cool" moment? Picture this: everyone waits for Goku, Goku steps in, and gets crushed by Recoome. Or stuggles against Recoome and gets crushed by Ginyu. Also, for almost every time Goku steps in, there was a time in which Goku was defeated.

If it's an indirect praise of Super, it's also pretty much necessary to point out that basically every character in DB/Z had at some point their "stronger than everyone else" moment (in order: Gohan, Vegeta, Piccolo, Trunks, Vegeta, Piccolo, Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan, Gotenks, Gohan). It was not a character-exclusive trait of Goku. I find great difficulty in understanding how Super made anything better: Goku is practically always, unquestionably the strongest good guy - except for the friendship-empowered Deus Ex Machina Trunks, prolly - and at the same time the only person that makes the plot advance, with also comparatively 70% of the screentime.

The only difference in Super is that the characters do virtually nothing by themselves. Everyone waits for Goku and maybe Vegeta (BOG and ROF) or Goku is there from the start, or we follow Goku through his adventure, training or whatever. Yep, character X gets his occasional one-episode filler in which we see how Goku interacts with him or how they fight some random Space Poacher, basically detached from almost any semblance of significance in the main outline and that's it. Characters in Z got things done or were actively avoiding immediate ruin 90% of the time: holding off Nappa, searching the Dragon Balls, holding off Freeza, the entirety of the Android Arc, and a good deal of the Majin Buu arc. These were important parts in the outline of the main plot, and the only thing that comes somewhat close is the first part of ROF --- which also featured an added emphasis on how everyone was utterly weak compared to Goku and Vegeta, and even a remark that Gohan could have got things done by himself (an indirect admission of the inherently fanservice-ish nature of seeing fighters like Muten, Tien and Krillin).

... So, again, what's this strange focus on DB and Z as if it supposedly made things comparatively worse? Goku was instrumental in solving the conflicts at hand ever since the series started. Pre-Z Dragon Ball is, at heart, a story focused entirely on Goku, not unlike Super. Starting from the Z part he, however, had an "army" that did most of the operations for him when he was sidelined, and was also constantly getting dethroned/ reclaiming the scepter of strongest fighter around. In Super, Goku himself is the army (and ironically even the main source of conflict at times, some may argue).

I also agree that Super, while still effectively a 'Goku Show', does make the other characters more relevant ... by narrowing the power gaps. Super goes 'fuck it' where power levels are concerned, and why many fans hate that, one cannot deny that through this choice they gave the show the opportunity to make characters like Roshi and Tien trade blows with Super Saiyans. Heck, they made Krillin fight Super Saiyan Goku (Blue)! In Z, Goku would just spit on the runt and slice his freaking head off with the saliva or something!

So for that, I commend them.

With some reserves. They didn't made them relevant with some specific advancement or with credible plot devices, but by having Goku fight with an ever-present PIS/CIS and with an added emphasis on how tactics can throw this or that opponent off-balance. It's also not necessarily an equivalent of "boosting them".

Most of the characters aren't also really depicted as being leaps and bounds above their former selves (bar #17 and, to an extent, Roshi) and none of the characters is really supposed to faze Goku regardless. A Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken Goku would finger-flick everyone, given that the second or third strongest in the team (Freeza) is at best equal to his regular state and his and he can already one-shot Gohan, whom *in base* and *rusted* is still vastly superior to the humans strength-wise, making the gap between the lower and upper echelons of the U7 team technically even more gigantic than before. They simply have much better showings compared to the later iterations of the sagas, Buu arc in particular for the non-Saiyans, but it doesn't mean the writers' intention is to make them drastically stronger or "closer" in strength to the Saiyans at all.

It still probably is the most realistical course of action; whoever writes Dragon Ball probably realizes "boosting" the characters in a credible fashion is an ordeal and that changing the power hierarchy too much could undermine the perceived iconicness of the cast. Goku went through every kind of training in the universe and whatnot, while most are left with weight machines and their usual routine, which didn't really help them surpass many foes since the post-Namek.

[HeroR]

Well, for whatever the reason, they just don't stand out, otherwise I would've thought of them, I guess. Maybe you are right, Goku being there might actually steal some of the weight other individual moments could have had, or it could be just the inherent lack of tension in Super that kinda minimizes the impact each of these fights have. Maybe it's just Z nostalgia. Who knows. As I said, I personally don't mind him being there, I just pointed out something that worked in the original story.

That is factually wrong that "they just don't stand out" since 17 became a fan-favorite after his fight both with Goku and against the magical girls. Buu's fight is called one of the highlights of Super, which is why people were so salty that he isn't in the main tournament. Or Freeza who won over a lot of doubters about his return with his recruitment and how he has acted through the tournament.

So saying that Goku being there somehow steals from the other characters is bunk. Other shows in existence have the main character interacting with the secondary cast, yet fans don't accused the main character of 'minimizes the impact'. This seems to be a Dragon Ball fandom specific problem.

I also agree that Super, while still effectively a 'Goku Show', does make the other characters more relevant ... by narrowing the power gaps. Super goes 'fuck it' where power levels are concerned, and why many fans hate that, one cannot deny that through this choice they gave the show the opportunity to make characters like Roshi and Tien trade blows with Super Saiyans. Heck, they made Krillin fight Super Saiyan Goku (Blue)! In Z, Goku would just spit on the runt and slice his freaking head off with the saliva or something!

So for that, I commend them.

Super doesn't say 'fuck it' to power levels no more than Z. If they did, the characters would have been able to do something to first form Freeza in Resurrection 'F' or U9 wouldn't have been crushed like bugs against Goku and Vegeta. Roshi and Tien also never traded blows against any Super Saiyan and it was outright said in the show that Krillin stood no chance against Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku and it was all a test to see how Krillin would react.

[sintzu]

The other characters' function is to literally fail in order to show how badass and amazing Goku is.

This wasn't the case all the time. During the fight with Raditz, It was Piccolo who ultimately was the key to killing Raditz, sure it made Goku look like a hero for dying for his son but that shouldn't take anything away from the role Piccolo played in it. Goku did defeat Nappa but the other characters also put up a really good fight in their own way, especially Piccolo with his sacrifice. Goku outright lost to Vegeta after he went Ozaru and had to rely on the others to just get him off the planet and even then, it was Vegeta's miscalculations that cost him the battle.

On Namek, Vegeta took out Cui & Dodoria on his own. When he was defeated by Zarbon he got revenge on his own. Druring the fight with Guldo he let Gohan and Krillin keep him busy while he got him with a sneak attack. He killed Jeice on his own and forced Ginyu out of Goku's body. Later Krillin managed to strike the first hit on Freeza by cutting off his tail and Piccolo put up a really good fight with him in his 2nd form.

Goku didn't show up until the very end of the Cell arc so I don't have to mention everything the others did. In the Buu arc Vegeta had his sacrifice and when Goku did end up defeating Buu he needed everyone's help to do so.

Goku was always the main focus of Dragon Ball, and I hated that. But it is what it is.

Goku is DB's main character. The only other Shonen I can think of where the main focus isn't always on the main character is Naruto which I personally prefer in terms of character usage.

[Michsi]

That is factually wrong that "they just don't stand out" since 17 became a fan-favorite after his fight both with Goku and against the magical girls. Buu's fight is called one of the highlights of Super, which is why people were so salty that he isn't in the main tournament. Or Freeza who won over a lot of doubters about his return with his recruitment and how he has acted through the tournament.

Sorry, should have mentioned more clearly that what I meant is that they don't stand out in my mind, as in I forgot about them as soon as they happened, even if they were supposed to be big moments in the show. Guess only time will tell what will be considered memorable in Super or a passing flicker that sparked some reaction. Right now, out of all the examples you've mentioned, I'd only agree with the return of Freeza, specifically episode 95, which I found great. It was what brought my attention back to this franchise, because it resounded outside of the DB community. The sort of "Hey,hey, they brought Freeza back!", "What? Again???","Yeah, but this time he's on their side!", "Woah, seriously?! I'm checking that out!" - this is the sort of impact I'm talking about.

[HeroR]

That is factually wrong that "they just don't stand out" since 17 became a fan-favorite after his fight both with Goku and against the magical girls. Buu's fight is called one of the highlights of Super, which is why people were so salty that he isn't in the main tournament. Or Freeza who won over a lot of doubters about his return with his recruitment and how he has acted through the tournament.

Sorry, should have mentioned more clearly that what I meant is that they don't stand out in my mind, as in I forgot about them as soon as they happened, even if they were supposed to be big moments in the show. Guess only time will tell what will be considered memorable in Super or a passing flicker that sparked some reaction. Right now, out of all the examples you've mentioned, I'd only agree with the return of Freeza, specifically episode 95, which I found great. It was what brought my attention back to this franchise, because it resounded outside of the DB community. The sort of "Hey,hey, they brought Freeza back!", "What? Again???","Yeah, but this time he's on their side!", "Woah, seriously?! I'm checking that out!" - this is the sort of impact I'm talking about.

Very few things in Z would be considered memorable if that was the measurement. Like the Piccolo vs 17 fight that fans loved and called one of the best fights in the series is remembered by almost no one outside of the fandom.

[Michsi]

Very few things in Z would be considered memorable if that was the measurement. Like the Piccolo vs 17 fight that fans loved and called one of the best fights in the series is remembered by almost no one outside of the fandom.

Yeah, but it's a very large fandom, one of the biggest in the anime community, and one that Super struggles to reel back in it seems.

[HeroR]

Very few things in Z would be considered memorable if that was the measurement. Like the Piccolo vs 17 fight that fans loved and called one of the best fights in the series is remembered by almost no one outside of the fandom.

Yeah, but it's a very large fandom, one of the biggest in the anime community, and one that Super struggles to reel back in it seems.

And you're basing this on what?

[Michsi]

Very few things in Z would be considered memorable if that was the measurement. Like the Piccolo vs 17 fight that fans loved and called one of the best fights in the series is remembered by almost no one outside of the fandom.

Yeah, but it's a very large fandom, one of the biggest in the anime community, and one that Super struggles to reel back in it seems.

And you're basing this on what?

Overall buzz throughout the anime community at large, I guess. You can suss out the impact something has if you're in multiple fandoms and social media makes it even easier. Like how I came across One Punch man references everywhere during it's run (and still do), how people reacted to the Todoroki vs. Deku fight and how it's considered one of the best anime action moments in recent years. I haven't seen that type of reaction with Super aside from what I mentioned regarding Freeza, which is disheartening considering just how huge DB once was.. At least where the English speaking fandoms are concerned. Might be wrong, I'm no marketing expert after all. Just my observation, which is why I keep using "seems."

[HeroR]

Overall buzz throughout the anime community at large, I guess. You can suss out the impact something has if you're in multiple fandoms and social media makes it even easier. Like how I came across One Punch man references everywhere during it's run (and still do), how people reacted to the Todoroki vs. Deku fight and how it's considered one of the best anime action moments in recent years. I haven't seen that type of reaction with Super aside from what I mentioned regarding Freeza. At least where the English speaking fandoms are concerned. Might be wrong, I'm no marketing expert after all. Just my observation, which is why I keep using "seems."

That's mostly because those are new anime that western fans call 'fresh' while Super is a legecy series. Even then, I have seen Goku Black avatars on none anime sites along with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku with the Kaioken. Heck, I have seen people who have never watched Super know who Zamasu is. Super just doesn't have a giant meme culture like One Punch Man.

To be honest, I haven't ran into many people talk about MHA in general. The Todoroki vs. Deku was the first general reference I've seen and MHA is on season 2.

But this is all personal evidence on both of our parts.