In order to continue DB's story in an authentic manner, Jump should create a Toriyama AI bot

[The Dark Knight]

Maybe we shouldn't continue DB's story in an "authentic manner"? I'm also bothered by the [somewhat trivial in comparison] implications that "Dragon Ball needs to continue". I see this happening a lot in basically every fandom I'm a part of, but personally? I wouldn't mind if most series I follow just... stop.

I couldn't have said this better myself; I 100% agree with you. Dragon Ball should have ended all the way back when Toriyama wrote and drew that final chapter back in 1995. Once Toei animated the remaining Buu arc chapters and completed the movies they had in-production at the time, Dragon Ball should have stopped. We did not need GT, we did not need Daima, and we certainly did not need Super.

Unless Dragon Ball is your only interest in life [which I'm sure it isn't] you're going to be okay.

Exactly. There are countless anime and manga out there that are just as good as Dragon Ball, all waiting to be explored.

I think it's a better investment to create new original series instead of making more Dragon Ball.

This should have happened well over a decade ago. Instead of going back to Dragon Ball, Toriyama should have started a new series from scratch. Everyone involved with modern Dragon Ball, from Toriyama to Toyotaro, to the producers at Toei, were severely limited with what they could do creatively as a result of boxing themselves in Dragon Ball's world.

[JulieYBM]

Maybe we shouldn't continue DB's story in an "authentic manner"? I'm also bothered by the [somewhat trivial in comparison] implications that "Dragon Ball needs to continue". I see this happening a lot in basically every fandom I'm a part of, but personally? I wouldn't mind if most series I follow just... stop.

I couldn't have said this better myself; I 100% agree with you. Dragon Ball should have ended all the way back when Toriyama wrote and drew that final chapter back in 1995. Once Toei animated the remaining Buu arc chapters and completed the movies they had in-production at the time, Dragon Ball should have stopped. We did not need GT, we did not need Daima, and we certainly did not need Super.

I think it's a better investment to create new original series instead of making more Dragon Ball.

This should have happened well over a decade ago. Instead of going back to Dragon Ball, Toriyama should have started a new series from scratch. Everyone involved with modern Dragon Ball, from Toriyama to Toyotaro, to the producers at Toei, were severely limited with what they could do creatively as a result of boxing themselves in Dragon Ball's world.

I mean, it's not even that they boxed themselves in Dragon Ball's world, it's that they didn't break the rules of Dragon Ball nearly as often as they should have. Those Tournament of Power set-up episodes were literally the best Dragon Ball stories since the early Namek arc or even the early Artificial Humans arc. The less Dragon Ball Super was like something that Toriyama would write, the better it was.

I don't want to relitigate what pieces of what franchise deserve to exist, especially a whole decade after the fact. Dragon Ball (1984) isn't such a sacred cow that we should be holding it up as essential to existing, either. Every work has its strengths and flaws and if a piece of work doesn't strike one's fancy then just don’t interact with it.

Do you know how insane we would all sound still complaining about Dragon Ball Evolution nearly twenty damned years later? Lol

[The Dark Knight]

I don't want to relitigate what pieces of what franchise deserve to exist, especially a whole decade after the fact. Dragon Ball (1984) isn't such a sacred cow that we should be holding it up as essential to existing, either. Every work has its strengths and flaws and if a piece of work doesn't strike one's fancy then just don’t interact with it.

I just think that Dragon Ball as a piece of art looks better if it's just the original manga and its two anime adaptions (Dragon Ball & Dragon Ball Z); everything after has just diluted the brand from an artistic point of view. Obviously Dragon Ball is just entertainment and no part of it is important like having clean air and water, but the topic of this thread is about Dragon Ball continuing, which is why I brought up the points that I did. Also, my points don't just apply to Dragon Ball, but rather any form of entertainment. If an author of a particular thing (movies, TV show, books, games, etc...) decides that it has reached its natural conclusion, then corporations should just leave it be and move on. Look at Terminator for example, there are now more bad Terminator movies than there are good ones; sometimes it's best to leave things alone and move on. With that said, I have no issues with people who like these post-original work material, as I myself believe that there are aspects of them (Ssj4 from GT for example) that are just as good as what's found in the original work. However, if you're going to continue a story beyond its intended ending, or bring it back decades down the line, then the quality of it should at the bare minimum be just as good as what came before it. Unfortunately, I don't think it's controversial to say that none of Dragon Ball's sequels have managed to live up to the bar set by the original work.

[NeoZ Duwang]

I actually enjoyed GT to some extent and I'm glad I was able to experience Dragon Ball's revival, which is a very nostalgic period for me (From Battle of God's debut to the broadcast of Super's last episode, I was 8-13!). My argument wasn't about the quality of the material itself, but rather that we shouldn't prioritize hypotethical stories over the stuff we already have in the first place. Even if you like all we got up to this point, it's better to be happy that it happened, not sad that it's over.

Sure, I agree that the original run is generally better than any of its sequels, even as a kid watching Super I realized that. But I'm also not particularly interested in thinking about this hypotethical world where the series never went past Boo, precisely because it doesn't exist and I can just stop reading at Boo if I want to.

Admitedly, the "Maybe we shouldn't continue DB's story in an 'authentic manner'?" I chose to start with gave the idea that I was trying to say that Dragon Ball continuing is necessarily bad, when I just was trying to imply that it wasn't necessarily a good thing. As far as I'm concerned, getting more of it is always neutral: We don't need it and if the series ended with Boo it wouldn't feel any less complete than it does now, but that doesn't necessarily mean I think it shouldn't be brought back in any context [unless they do this AI shit you suggested, then I'm done with this franchise forever].


Fans of long series, particularly those that consider themselves part of a fandom, tend to feel more and more entitled to new content, to the point it often feels to me like they get their enjoyment not from the material itself, but from the wait and the hype over having something new to bare their fangs into it. It's like when some people that watched James Gun's Superman came out of it complaining about how the post-credit scene wasn't a teaser for a new project instead... Like, you just finished a 2 hour movie and the first thing you're thinking about is an hypothetical 2 hour movie that doesn't exist [yet]? Sure, we're not getting a lot of new Dragon Ball content already, but stories aren't like food where it gets cold and rotten with time, Dragon Ball alone sure has something you barely even know about, because the franchise is already GINOURMOUS, and it's not like there aren't a bunch of other stuff that you could and should be interested in.

I'm not into hype culture in general, but it's particularly bad when you need something new so bad that you'd rather see a franchise getting ruined and turned into AI generated slop than just... enjoy the things we already have?

I don't want to relitigate what pieces of what franchise deserve to exist, especially a whole decade after the fact. Dragon Ball (1984) isn't such a sacred cow that we should be holding it up as essential to existing, either. Every work has its strengths and flaws and if a piece of work doesn't strike one's fancy then just don’t interact with it.

This.

Dragon Ball is what Dragon Ball is. We can't go back in time and erase what we don't like, nor can we prevent more stuff we won't like from coming out, but we can evaluate the series for what it now, criticize it for what it is now, and choose how to engage with new material as it comes out, instead of mindlessly wishing for more all the time as if we're gonna die if we just don't get that new hypothetical Dragon Ball Daima season 2 where Goku turns into a Super Saiyan 20

[SupremeKai25]

I actually enjoyed GT to some extent and I'm glad I was able to experience Dragon Ball's revival, which is a very nostalgic period for me (From Battle of God's debut to the broadcast of Super's last episode, I was 8-13!). My argument wasn't about the quality of the material itself, but rather that we shouldn't prioritize hypotethical stories over the stuff we already have in the first place. Even if you like all we got up to this point, it's better to be happy that it happened, not sad that it's over.

Let me just say that I find your post very insightful. Thank you for your input. I can't really relate to Super being a part of my childhood, because it wasn't (I was 14-17 during the anime run: DBZ was part of my childhood, not Super), but I've often considered that Super will be the introduction to Dragon Ball for many people in the new generations, and I can't wait to read more inputs like this.

I honestly think that Super+Daima is a wonderful introduction to the franchise, having a good balance between the whimsical, adventurous side of the franchise, as well as the dark, tragic one.

You consider an incredibly important aspect of any media: stories need to know when to end. And what's important to remember with Super is that IT IS NOT a sequel. It DOES NOT continue the story of Dragon Ball. It is a MIDQUEL that exists just to enrich the world and explain what Goku was doing for years after the death of Majin Buu. The story of Super exists within the timeframe of DBZ and doesn't advance anything.

This is also why I'm OPPOSED to Super surpassing the original ending and stepping into post-Z territory. That is not the scope of the story.

And this is also why SUPER DOESN'T RUIN DBZ. The ending of the original manga is still there, intact and preserved. Super is just adding more stories and adventures BEFORE that ending to fill a time gap.

As for the story of Super, I honestly think that Super Hero works as a perfect ending to Super as a whole, not only because it is just one year before Goku leaving with Uub (so Super's purpose, to explain what Goku was doing in that time gap, is nearly fulfilled); but also because that final scene in the manga where Piccolo and the rest are saying goodbye to the kindergarten, and to the audience, feels like a perfect ending.

I used to crave for more Super content, but now? I honestly think Toyotaro gave Super a fantastic send-off in the manga arc of Super Hero.

[The Dark Knight]

This is also why I'm OPPOSED to Super surpassing the original ending and stepping into post-Z territory. That is not the scope of the story.

Wouldn't we have gotten more out of Super had it been set after the manga's ending ? There were so many things that were off limits as a result of there being an ending it had to line up with, and ending in which everything was fine. You could have had a U6 tournament in which the heroes lost and planet earth was permanently moved over to Universe 6. You could have had a Zamasu arc in which one of our main characters got killed and couldn't be brought back. I think stories of limited scope, such as the Tarble OVA, can work in the 10 year gap, but once you decide to start an entire new story with real stakes, then removing those limitations is the way to go. When GT was in the early stages of production, it was intended to be set during that 10 year time gap, but everyone decided against it because it would've limited what they were able to do with the story and characters.

[JulieYBM]

I don't want to relitigate what pieces of what franchise deserve to exist, especially a whole decade after the fact. Dragon Ball (1984) isn't such a sacred cow that we should be holding it up as essential to existing, either. Every work has its strengths and flaws and if a piece of work doesn't strike one's fancy then just don’t interact with it.

I just think that Dragon Ball as a piece of art looks better if it's just the original manga and its two anime adaptions (Dragon Ball & Dragon Ball Z); everything after has just diluted the brand from an artistic point of view. Obviously Dragon Ball is just entertainment and no part of it is important like having clean air and water, but the topic of this thread is about Dragon Ball continuing, which is why I brought up the points that I did. Also, my points don't just apply to Dragon Ball, but rather any form of entertainment. If an author of a particular thing (movies, TV show, books, games, etc...) decides that it has reached its natural conclusion, then corporations should just leave it be and move on. Look at Terminator for example, there are now more bad Terminator movies than there are good ones; sometimes it's best to leave things alone and move on. With that said, I have no issues with people who like these post-original work material, as I myself believe that there are aspects of them (Ssj4 from GT for example) that are just as good as what's found in the original work. However, if you're going to continue a story beyond its intended ending, or bring it back decades down the line, then the quality of it should at the bare minimum be just as good as what came before it. Unfortunately, I don't think it's controversial to say that none of Dragon Ball's sequels have managed to live up to the bar set by the original work.

If I was in charge, Dragon Ball (1984) in general would have been better, not just Dragon Ball Super. I'm not, though.

I'm also not paid to insure the brand's quality or image or whatever. If I enjoy something, I'll interact with it. If I don't, I won't. Nobody likes the bitch who comes into a thread of Dragon Ball GT fans talking about their love for the series to explicitly shit on it and say it has no redeeming qualities, after all.

The Terminator comparison is apt in that regard, mostly because I haven't seen the post-Judgement Day films beyond Rise of the Machines and Salvation during the original theatrical runs, decades ago. I'm not even particularly a fan of the original two films from James Cameron, so I'm not particularly interested in fellating Terminator as some sacred brand being diluted by sequels I can hardly describe to you beyond the third one having a breast expansion scene that changed my teenage girl life forever and Arnold Schwarzenegger acting like a queen for a scene.



Also, big fan of NeoZ Duwang's post.

[SupremeKai25]

This is also why I'm OPPOSED to Super surpassing the original ending and stepping into post-Z territory. That is not the scope of the story.

Wouldn't we have gotten more out of Super had it been set after the manga's ending ? There were so many things that were off limits as a result of there being an ending it had to line up with, and ending in which everything was fine. You could have had a U6 tournament in which the heroes lost and planet earth was permanently moved over to Universe 6. You could have had a Zamasu arc in which one of our main characters got killed and couldn't be brought back. I think stories of limited scope, such as the Tarble OVA, can work in the 10 year gap, but once you decide to start an entire new story with real stakes, then removing those limitations is the way to go. When GT was in the early stages of production, it was intended to be set during that 10 year time gap, but everyone decided against it because it would've limited what they were able to do with the story and characters.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the ending of those arcs? "Dark" doesn't necessarily mean better; it's all about building up to a certain ending and not messing up the pay-off. The ending of the ToP saga was perfect and the ending of the U6 saga was actually pretty original, with Hit winning the fight but Monaka winning the game.

The most controversial ending by far was the Zamasu saga, precisely because it tried to do a "dark" ending. I've lost count of how many times I read this take: "This saga was awesome, I loved Black and Zamasu, I loved seeing Future Trunks again, but the ending was a dumpster fire and ruined it."

Like 90% of the criticism for that saga would disappear if it just got a generic happy ending, lol.

[The Dark Knight]

The most controversial ending by far was the Zamasu saga, precisely because it tried to do a "dark" ending. I've lost count of how many times I read this take: "This saga was awesome, I loved Black and Zamasu, I loved seeing Future Trunks again, but the ending was a dumpster fire and ruined it." Like 90% of the criticism for that saga would disappear if it just got a generic happy ending, lol.

What I would have changed about the Zamasu ending is actually have Zamasu win, no intervention from Zeno. The arc we got would be the first part of a three arc story line. The Zamasu arc we have would remain as is, with the exception of things ending without Zeno stepping in. The second arc would revolve around the heroes visiting other universes to gather allies and find a solution to the Zamasu problem. The third arc would be a full-blown multiversal war against Zamasu, with all the characters who our heroes meet returning for the tournament of power.

[PhantomSaiyan]

What I would have changed about the Zamasu ending is actually have Zamasu win, no intervention from Zeno. The arc we got would be the first part of a three arc story line. The Zamasu arc we have would remain as is, with the exception of things ending without Zeno stepping in. The second arc would revolve around the heroes visiting other universes to gather allies and find a solution to the Zamasu problem. The third arc would be a full-blown multiversal war against Zamasu, with all the characters who our heroes meet returning for the tournament of power.

What is this, the MCU?

[MasenkoHA]

What I would have changed about the Zamasu ending is actually have Zamasu win, no intervention from Zeno. The arc we got would be the first part of a three arc story line. The Zamasu arc we have would remain as is, with the exception of things ending without Zeno stepping in. The second arc would revolve around the heroes visiting other universes to gather allies and find a solution to the Zamasu problem. The third arc would be a full-blown multiversal war against Zamasu, with all the characters who our heroes meet returning for the tournament of power.

What is this, the MCU?

Unfortunately fans have been clamoring for Dragon Ball to turn into the Shonen Jump equivalent of the MCU for god knows how long.

[SupremeKai25]

The most controversial ending by far was the Zamasu saga, precisely because it tried to do a "dark" ending. I've lost count of how many times I read this take: "This saga was awesome, I loved Black and Zamasu, I loved seeing Future Trunks again, but the ending was a dumpster fire and ruined it." Like 90% of the criticism for that saga would disappear if it just got a generic happy ending, lol.

What I would have changed about the Zamasu ending is actually have Zamasu win, no intervention from Zeno. The arc we got would be the first part of a three arc story line. The Zamasu arc we have would remain as is, with the exception of things ending without Zeno stepping in. The second arc would revolve around the heroes visiting other universes to gather allies and find a solution to the Zamasu problem. The third arc would be a full-blown multiversal war against Zamasu, with all the characters who our heroes meet returning for the tournament of power.

Listen, I love Zamasu and shill for him at any chance I get, but even I think this would be terrible. You don't want to waste 3 arcs on one villain and it's not really how Dragon Ball does things. When an arc concludes, the main villain of the arc either gets redeemed and joins Goku's team or gets shelved.

Dragon Ball doesn't really do these long-running villains who are main villains for 2+ sagas like Naruto. Dragon Ball's story arc are much more self-contained and episodic in nature, which adds to the charm.

Super's take on Freeza is the only exception and it's because Freeza's the most popular anime villain ever so they want to milk him dry for the nostalgia pandering.

[JulieYBM]

I'd just do a story arc where Vegeta, Gokuu and Future Trunks have to do something to convince the Zen-Ou to restore Future Trunks' timeline.

Pop culture nerds love tossing around the term 'war', but never want to explore what a war is beyond all their favorite toys in a big battle. It's boring. Give me a small, intimate character piece with fighting either as a form of dialogue or no fighting at all.

Or heck, take a page from Deep Space Nine and show us how war is terrible and harmful, rather than "ooh, big battle."

[The Dark Knight]

What is this, the MCU?

Unfortunately fans have been clamoring for Dragon Ball to turn into the Shonen Jump equivalent of the MCU for god knows how long.

How is that anything like the MCU ? I'm not asking for each hero to have their own show.

Dragon Ball doesn't really do these long-running villains who are main villains for 2+ sagas like Naruto. Dragon Ball's story arc are much more self-contained and episodic in nature, which adds to the charm.

Think of it like the Saiyan and Freeza arcs connection, where one lead directly into the other; the only difference here is that there would be a third part to the story. Zamasu was a good enough villain that I think you could give him an extended storyline like that; something that wouldn't be possible with Hit or Jiren.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Unfortunately fans have been clamoring for Dragon Ball to turn into the Shonen Jump equivalent of the MCU for god knows how long.

As much as modern Dragon Ball can be hit or miss, at least it's much better than what most fans would come up with lol

What is this, the MCU?

Unfortunately fans have been clamoring for Dragon Ball to turn into the Shonen Jump equivalent of the MCU for god knows how long.

How is that anything like the MCU ? I'm not asking for each hero to have their own show.

Each hero having their own movies and shows is NOT the only feature of the MCU.

The MCU also has narrative tropes. Kinda like your "and the heroes across universes and galaxies all ally together against the big bad and they all fight" story idea. That's textbook stereotypical MCU shenanigans

[SupremeKai25]

Dragon Ball Fanfictions love the concept of a big, multiversal war, either between Angels, gods and demons, Freeza vs. Cooler, and whatnot. I don't know if it's because of that "Fourth Great Ninja War" from Naruto that lasted for 4 sodding years or what. The concept of a "war" doesn't fit Dragon Ball's format.

My Hero Academia just finished its own "Final War" saga, and honestly? It wasn't really a "war", it was just the protagonists vs. the big bad guy like in every anime story arc in existence.

The closest thing to a "Dragon Ball war arc" you'll ever get is the Tournament of Power, so... better start your rewatch.

[The Dark Knight]

The MCU also has narrative tropes. Kinda like your "and the heroes across universes and galaxies all ally together against the big bad and they all fight" story idea. That's textbook stereotypical MCU shenanigans.

We got an entire tournament with 6 universes we knew nothing about, so this would be a great way to establish some of those characters to better set them up in the tournament. There would be more emotional weight to the tournament if the people Goku and his friends were fighting just helped them save the multiverse from Zamasu.

[PhantomSaiyan]

We got an entire tournament with 6 universes we knew nothing about, so this would be a great way to establish some of those characters to better set them up in the tournament. There would be more emotional weight to the tournament if the people Goku and his friends were fighting just helped them save the multiverse from Zamasu.

I 100% agree with your premise and I'm fully behind it, I'd love to get more exploration on those universes.

I just wouldn't like an mcu style teamup against zamasu, that's all

[JulieYBM]

They should have broken up the action more with flashbacks during the Tournament of Power arc to give those characters more context for their own personal reasons to for fighting.

[MasenkoHA]

They should have broken up the action more with flashbacks during the Tournament of Power arc to give those characters more context for their own personal reasons to for fighting.

Idk I was also fine with most of the participants just being fodder.

Like Ribrianne was a perfectly fun character that got hate for reasons I’m sure have nothing to do with her size or the expression of her gender

I don’t think she needs depth or any reason to exist beyond “magical girl “ parody