Why Watch In English/Japanese...?

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:08 pm

SSJ2bardock wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote:
SSJ2bardock wrote:Good point, I think if it had been anything else but dragonball and Funimation did this with a show it would have been generally accepted.
Yeah because y'know things like mediocre voices bad character changes, name and attack name changes, minor editing, and corny jokes usually go over very well with the public as far as anime goes, just look at 4kids One Piece...oh wait.
That wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that if this had happened with a show that wasn't as humongously popular or well know there wouldn't be as much fuss over it.

Again look at One Piece, I'm not sure many Americans knew what the show was before it was brought to America.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:10 pm

"Look Vegeta! People popcorn!"
That's the one line in the dub off-hand that I like. Back on topic, though. I like both. Why? I grew up with it. That's all. Otherwise, I guarantee you I would hate it. You see, elementary school when DBZ was on sucked for me (partially/mostly my fault, but another time.) DBZ was the one tihng I could look forward to every day. It was my constant. I remember getting really pissed one night because I had to do my homework and coudn't break to watch dragonball.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:27 pm

On the whole subtitled thing, it's really an aquired skill. Not a hard one to learn, but it wasn't easy for me the first time I watched something subtitled. It took DBZ, a show I REALLY loved, to force me to read and watch with proficiency. Before that I honestly did have trouble when I saw subtitles for things, to keep up with the show. If you're not used to watching subtitles it really can be hard to start. I'd compare it to say riding a bicycle. Not the hardest of tasks, but before you know what you're doing it can be hard.

As for preffrences in DBZ, I'm an odd case. Normally, I preffer my anime dubbed, call me crazy but I like hearing the words in my native tongue it has a sort of experience that I can't really quantify, that subtitles don't usually deliver to me. But in DBZ's case, I make an exception because the dub really IS that bad. Like so many, at first Masako Nozawa's Goku was a turn off for me, but I got used to her Goku. So much so that I don't even think of Goku's voice as effeminate anymore. What's strange is when I read the subtitles on DBZ, I actually end up hearing the Japanese seiyuu speaking in english in my head. So in a sense it is like watching a dub to me at this point, just it goes through a mental filter first.

Whats so odd about this is, this is the only show where this happens when I watch subtitles. I do tend to watch my anime DVDs first dubbed, then subbed afterwards just to pick up any nuances the dub may have missed. But the whole mind turns the japanese plus subtitles into and english dub in my head just doesn't happen to me in any other show. I think I may just be crazy. xD

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:34 pm

That's pretty cool. I wish my mind translated Japanese for me!

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:38 pm

My mind doesn't do the translation it takes what I'm reading and puts it in the voice its hearing in my head.

I may know SOME Japanese but I'm nowhere NEAR fluent.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:42 pm

Oh ok, I guess I just misinterpreted what you said.

eienmic · Post by **eienmic** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:10 pm

Wish I got in on this earlier.

I really like the point someone made about Funi treating DB like they actually created it. It's ridiculous sometimes to what extent they will go to try to keep DB "American," especially their work on the DB games.

Seriously, why couldn't I have the Japanese audio track in the first 3 budokai games and Super DBZ? And even when they do throw it in, they make that stupid crack about "I don't know why you would want to do that anyways" or something along that line.

I mean, why can't they show some tolerance to the varying tastes of the consumer? Am I somehow less American if I want to hear it in Japanese? I mean c'mon, even the Korean version of Budokai had the Japanese voices and Korea still has a lot of issues with Japan.

Like others who expressed this feeling, I like the original Japanese because that's how it was intended. Nozawa-san must have been doing something right cuz she's been doing Goku for over a decade. It's like watching Transformers in Japanese. Optimus just doesn't sound right speaking in Japanese. Likewise, Michealangelo's "dude-ness" is totally lost in the Japanese TMNT.

It's a work of art and it should be treated as such. You would never edit Michelangelo's David for the American audience by circumcising him, would you? Or by giving him a smaller, more Anglo looking nose? So in the same respect, slightly dim-witted, pure hearted Goku shouldn't sound like a wise-cracking action hero hybrid.

That's just how I see it.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:16 pm

That was nice how you managed to get Michelangelo the artist and Michaelangelo the Ninja Turtle into the same point on that one, mad props bro.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:29 pm

eienmic wrote:It's a work of art and it should be treated as such. You would never edit Michelangelo's David for the American audience by circumcising him, would you? Or by giving him a smaller, more Anglo looking nose? So in the same respect, slightly dim-witted, pure hearted Goku shouldn't sound like a wise-cracking action hero hybrid.

That's just how I see it.

The David is on a slightly different level than a stupid 80's show about punching bad dudes in the face.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:35 pm

Successfully putting the two in the same statement is an accomplishment in itself.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:01 pm

laserkid wrote: What's strange is when I read the subtitles on DBZ, I actually end up hearing the Japanese seiyuu speaking in english in my head. So in a sense it is like watching a dub to me at this point, just it goes through a mental filter first.

Whats so odd about this is, this is the only show where this happens when I watch subtitles. I do tend to watch my anime DVDs first dubbed, then subbed afterwards just to pick up any nuances the dub may have missed. But the whole mind turns the japanese plus subtitles into and english dub in my head just doesn't happen to me in any other show. I think I may just be crazy. xD

You aren't crazy. That's pretty much my same view on watching DBZ subtitled.

eienmic · Post by **eienmic** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:09 pm

LOL. Yeah, Rocketman. I kinda got carried away there.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:59 am

eienmic makes some good points. Though with original, there can be exceptions. For example, while I watch DBZ either way, I can't watch Speed Racer or Godzilla in Japanese subtitled. The dubbing of them makes it funny and more enjoyable for me. Know with the former, most guys I know feel the same.

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:05 am

The comparison I'd make for reading subtitles would actually be reading right to left. It takes a little while, and you screw up a lot at first but in not too long you just get used to it and you can flip easily between either form.

The only times I have trouble with subs are in cases where multiple characters are talking in different lines on screen at the same time, or when there's a note at the top of the screen explaining something in the scene.

It's nice to still see this convo going on as civilly as it is.

And on the note about hearing the VAs speak in your head- I get that feeling when I read my better doujinshi- I can hear them talking, but unfortunately since I can't read Japanese it's more muffled > > But they have all the inflections and the snaps and whatnot. It kinda connects anyway.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:46 am

Velasa wrote:
The only times I have trouble with subs are in cases where multiple characters are talking in different lines on screen at the same time, or when there's a note at the top of the screen explaining something in the scene.

Not even I can keep up with that, especially if all three are going on at the same time.
*Shakes a fist at Kaizoku fansubs*

KillerCory · Post by **KillerCory** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:02 am

I first watched Dragonball Z as a dub. I only had the VHS tapes so I never saw the japanese and when I was young I didn't enjoy it. I had only known the dub for many years so I did consider my self a dub fan...

But now that I have the flawed seasons sets I can at least at watch the show in Japanese.

I finally had the last straw with season 4. There were many instances where Kuririn would say to Gohan 'be strong bro' or 'we need you bro', or the part where he puts on Roshi's sunglasses and just acts plain retarded. Many dubs today do a good job with following the original script (Full Metal Panic! and Full Metal Alchemist to name few) and if this were the case with DBZ I would have nothing to say.

However, the lines that are changed or added are just for the dumbest reasons that completely change the story. Now that I've started watching in Japanese from the beginning of Dragonball I know that I would never go back.

disturbed001 · Post by **disturbed001** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:14 pm

I have to say that I grew up with the Funi dub and I never thought about watching it in Japanese with subtitles. When I watch a dub I can't see myself watching in Japanese because I fall in favor of the dub actors, and I really enjoy all of them in DBZ, even Frieza.

I just recently decided to "Force" myself to watch the Japanese with subtitles since a lot of fans here state that the dub was inconsistant or just plain wrong. It only took me 2 subbed episodes to realize that if a really love Dragon Ball, I had to see it this way, and really know it all.

I have only watched DBZ subbed and I'm only just starting the Frieza saga. At first I thought I would just watch it all in Japanese and know what's going on, then go back to the dub. I've tried listening to some of the dub voices again after watching 60+ episodes in Japanese, and I can't do it. It's amazing how much better and more natural the Japanese feels.

I can't listen to a empty-headed ReaCoom and take the character seriously at all. Same with Kaio-sama and many others.

So to anyone who has only watched the dub, I would strongly, strongly, STRONGLY suggest seeing it the REAL way it was meant to be seen.

In all honesty I will always enjoy the FUNI actors, but for originality, the sub I think with be my first preference.

Sorry if I've stated what others already had, I just thought I should give my little "testimonial" for the dub fans.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:29 pm

I went through a similar experience. I was very attached to the FUNi dub right before I had begun to watch series with the original japanese audio even when I had the dvds in hand. I cringe everytime I hear Sabat's Piccolo now, with the exception of when he decides to go very low with his interpretation. As of now, the only reason I would watch the FUNi dub is to experience the few moments that the dub group with Morgan, and/or Faulconer's music had presented that holds true nostalgic value; that and Sean Schemmel's Goku.

Like Disturbed said, give the original japanese audio with subtitles a try. It may be awkward at first, but you grow to love it, and it's very rewarding in the end knowing that you can appreciate both versions.

disturbed001 · Post by **disturbed001** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:40 pm

Well said Snail.

I will always love Schemmel's Goku and Nadalny's young Goku.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:00 pm