Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

Still don't see any reason to assume that SS Gohan is as strong as Ultimate Gohan, rather than being as strong as SS Gohan.

[Sandubadear]

In my opinion everyone just fell to their Namek arc BPs for no reason, but Gohan can get back to his Saiyaman arc BP by going SSJ.

[DragonHermit]

Fuck it, rough numbers:

Freeza [1st form]: 120,000,000,000

Gohan [Ultimate/Super Saiyan]: 90,000,000,000
Gohan [Base; BoG]: 45,000,000,000
Gohan [Base; RoF]: 4,500,000,000

Gotenks [Super Saiyan]: 9,000,000,000
Ginyu [Tagoma]: 7,500,000,000
Tagoma: 5,000,000,000
Piccolo: 2,500,000,000

The crazy thing is that BP for 1st form Freeza was his BP in his final form on my current list. Freaking insane. This forces me to use a 10 times multiplier for SSGSS instead of the 50 one I settled with.

Those numbers are overinflated (unless you're confusing millions with billions). Piccolo = Android 17, so he should be about 250-300 mill. Also, we have to use x50 multiplier for SS Blue. The only way to make all of this work, is to assume Frieza in his final form in RoF was only in the 2% state. (Remember for 100% he had massive muscle increase).

Here is my math (extremely conservative btw):

Piccolo 300 mill { = Android 17 (who was maybe twice as strong as Trunks SSJ who was = Goku SSJ Namek), so let's say 300 mill.}
Tagoma 500 mill { was almost twice as strong. Let's be conservative and estimate 500 mill.}
Gohan SSJ 700 mill (Gohan was weaker than Tagoma in base, but with SSJ boost he went to 700 mill}
Frieza 1.4 billion {Frieza in his base had to be at least twice as strong as Gohan SSJ}

Frieza 2% form - 8 billion
Frieza 50% form - 70 billion
Frieza 100% form - 140 billion {no muscle mass increase in RoF, so it can't be this}

-------------------------------------------Vegeta Calculations------------------

Let's start with an initial guess of Vegeta base being 300 mill (twice around Goku SSJ Namek).

@ SSJ 2 30 billion
@ Rage (let's be generous and give a 10x multiplier) 300 billion

By these calculation Beerus should be 3 trillion (Rageta was 10% Beerus)

Equating Goku's Saiyan Beyond God to Frieza's 50% and multiplying by 50 would making him around 3.5 trillion. So at least it's in the same order of magnitude as Beerus' power. Toriyama fucked up quite honestly. These characters are getting to GT levels of overpowered, and series has barely started.

[DragonHermit]

Fuck it, rough numbers:

Freeza [1st form]: 120,000,000,000

Gohan [Ultimate/Super Saiyan]: 90,000,000,000
Gohan [Base; BoG]: 45,000,000,000
Gohan [Base; RoF]: 4,500,000,000

Gotenks [Super Saiyan]: 9,000,000,000
Ginyu [Tagoma]: 7,500,000,000
Tagoma: 5,000,000,000
Piccolo: 2,500,000,000

The crazy thing is that BP for 1st form Freeza was his BP in his final form on my current list. Freaking insane. This forces me to use a 10 times multiplier for SSGSS instead of the 50 one I settled with.

Those numbers are overinflated (unless you're confusing millions with billions). Piccolo = Android 17, so he should be about 250-300 mill. Also, we have to use x50 multiplier for SS Blue. The only way to make all of this work, is to assume Freeza in his final form in RoF was only in the 2% state. (Remember for 100% he had massive muscle increase).

Here is my math (extremely conservative btw):

Piccolo 300 mill { = Android 17 (who was maybe twice as strong as Trunks SSJ who was = Goku SSJ Namek), so let's say 300 mill.}
Tagoma 500 mill { was almost twice as strong. Let's be conservative and estimate 500 mill.}
Gohan SSJ 700 mill (Gohan was weaker than Tagoma in base, but with SSJ boost he went to 700 mill}
Freeza 1.4 billion {Freeza in his base had to be at least twice as strong as Gohan SSJ}

Freeza 2% form - 8 billion
Freeza 50% form - 70 billion
Freeza 100% form - 140 billion {no muscle mass increase in RoF, so it can't be this}

-------------------------------------------Vegeta BoG Calculations------------------

Let's start with an initial guess of Vegeta base being 300 mill (twice around Goku SSJ Namek).

@ SSJ 2 30 billion
@ Rage (let's be generous and give a 10x multiplier) 300 billion

By these calculation Beerus should be 3 trillion (Rageta was 10% Beerus)

Equating Goku's Saiyan Beyond God to Freeza's 50% and multiplying by 50 would making him around 3.5 trillion. So at least it's in the same order of magnitude as Beerus' power. Toriyama fucked up quite honestly. These characters are getting to GT levels of overpowered, and series has barely started.

[ZombieVito]

Fuck it, rough numbers:

Freeza [1st form]: 120,000,000,000

Gohan [Ultimate/Super Saiyan]: 90,000,000,000
Gohan [Base; BoG]: 45,000,000,000
Gohan [Base; RoF]: 4,500,000,000

Gotenks [Super Saiyan]: 9,000,000,000
Ginyu [Tagoma]: 7,500,000,000
Tagoma: 5,000,000,000
Piccolo: 2,500,000,000

The crazy thing is that BP for 1st form Freeza was his BP in his final form on my current list. Freaking insane. This forces me to use a 10 times multiplier for SSGSS instead of the 50 one I settled with.

Those numbers are overinflated (unless you're confusing millions with billions). Piccolo = Android 17, so he should be about 250-300 mill. Also, we have to use x50 multiplier for SS Blue. The only way to make all of this work, is to assume Freeza in his final form in RoF was only in the 2% state. (Remember for 100% he had massive muscle increase).

No sorry. Piccolo is at a complete different level than 17 now. Not only did he train in the RoSaT (Managing to stand up to a freaking Cell Junior) but he also has over 12 years more of training under his belt,

[Bullza]

Looks like I was right in Tagoma being grossly over estimated.

I'm going to assume that Piccolo is no stronger than a Cell Jr and so Tagoma is roughly around the level of Perfect Cell before further powering up. At best as strong as Perfect Cell at his best.

Was the show telling us that Gohan in his base form was stronger than Piccolo? Tagoma = Base Gohan?

[ZombieVito]

Looks like I was right in Tagoma being grossly over estimated.

I'm going to assume that Piccolo is no stronger than a Cell Jr and so Tagoma is roughly around the level of Perfect Cell before further powering up. At best as strong as Perfect Cell at his best.

Was the show telling us that Gohan in his base form was stronger than Piccolo? Tagoma = Base Gohan?

Ginyu does say he is disappointed at base Gohan's power. Gohan even says he can't use his strongest power because of lack of training but then asks himself "Should I do it?" and turns Super Saiyan.

It really is a damn mess.

[buutenks]

Piccolo is easily above a cell jr at this point.And tagom no sold his punch,id say hes definitely FP perfect cell if not higher and ginyu tagoma proly SPC if not higher.making ssj gohan ssj3 level if not higher.

Also base gohan>>piccolo,only possible if gohan still retains some of his unlocked power but needs ssj to tap into most of it.

So while gohan did become weaker due to lack of training,he is still ssj3 tier.

[Khin]

So Gohan lost his Ultimate state due to slacking off,I believe Gohan retained some of his Ultimate powers in base thus why his Base is stronger than Piccolo,however to retain most of it,he will need to go SSJ.

Piccolo = Cell Jr. tier

Base Gohan = Cell Games MSSJ tier

SSJ Gohan = SSJ3 Goku tier

Tagoma = Buu Saga SSJ tier

Ginyu = Buu Saga SSJ2 tier

[Bullza]

Well Gohan's Ultimate state wasn't a form was it, it was just Elder Kai bringing his powers out to his 100% limit.

So it's not an ability that he lost but due to not training his power has decreased considerably and now he needs to use Super Saiyan again to get back up as close to that 100% as he can.

Depending on what the subs have to say for the newest episode I'd put it like this at the moment.

Piccolo = Cell Jr level

Base Gohan/Tagoma = Perfect Cell level

Super Saiyan Gohan = SSJ3 level

Frieza (First Form) = Super Buu level

Frieza (Final Form) = Vegito level

[Hugo Boss]

I don't think Dragon Ball Super's powerscale is supposed to be consistent with the ones of previous arcs. Not even Gohan seems to know how far his has fallen in terms of strength, though at least he doesn't need Super Saiyan to be stronger than Piccolo. I guess this is practically the same situation of when Goku fought Freeza on Namek.

[Sandubadear]

Nothing to confirm this, but the order of the fight seems to imply that Gohan is still stronger than Gotenks in the same form.

[Noah]

- So... Tagoma has the same BP as Base Gohan (RoF) or he is equal to his SSJ form?

- Tagoma survived a blow by SSJ Gotenks and yet he manages to survive?

[Bullza]

According to Herms Tagoma had the same power level as base Gohan when he's in peak condition I think was the comment.

And its fine Tagoma survived Gotenks attack. Roshi survived Tagomas didn't he.

[kinisking]

According to Herms Tagoma had the same power level as base Gohan when he's in peak condition I think was the comment.

And its fine Tagoma survived Gotenks attack. Roshi survived Tagomas didn't he.

that comment was proven wrong though. It was a throwaway comment by gohan to hype tagoma up. Gohan destroyed him later on.

[Bullza]

That was when he turned Super Saiyan though.

[kinisking]

That was when he turned Super Saiyan though.

Somehow i totally didnt see the base gohan part. My bad youre right

[kinisking]

Still don't see any reason to assume that SS Gohan is as strong as Ultimate Gohan, rather than being as strong as SS Gohan.

Because ss gohan>>>tagoma ginyu>tagoma>>> piccolo which at least semi perfect cell level.

[Noah]

kinisking you can avoid double-posting by editing your own posts

[buutenks]

- So... Tagoma has the same BP as Base Gohan (RoF) or he is equal to his SSJ form?

- Tagoma survived a blow by SSJ Gotenks and yet he manages to survive?

Nah,tagoma/ginyu is far above base gohan.ssj gohan on the other hand is far above tagoma/ginyu.

And again,piccolo is minimum cell jr level,since back in cell saga he was holding his own against a cell jr,while goku(lost allot of ki) yamcha ,krillin and tien were lying on the ground beaten.Only ones standing up fighting the cell jrs were vegeta trunks and piccolo,rest were on the ground beaten.Considering piccolo doesnt slack i doubt he dropped in power.This means that tagom is FP perfect cell level since he took piccolo full power punch and didnt even flinch,then ginyu takes over and powers up even further,proly taking him to SPC level if not higher.Then we have ssj gohan 2 shotting tagom with ease.

So pretty much means that while ssj gohan is not as strong as he was when he fought super buu he is still ssj3 tier.