Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[TheMightyOzaru]

I don't disregard BoG because I hate it, it's simply a fact that it isn't part of the original manga. And I'm talking literally, not in the sense of it being part of the franchise or timelines or what-have-you.

Salagir defined his canon the same way I define mine.

So because it's not part of his early work it's non canon? The author cannot add to his story? Seriously, that is simply absurd.

[TheGmGoken]

Nope.

Even through the author said it's part of the timeline? The author can't add to his own work?

[Saiga]

So because it's not part of his early work it's non canon? The author cannot add to his story? Seriously, that is simply absurd.

How is it absurd? Dragon Ball ended. The series finished. That's a pretty good reason for it not being added to.

@TheGmGoken As I said, the story was FINISHED. The "author can't add to his own work?" question is absurd because nothing Toriyama has done since than has been his work alone, with the except of Neko Majin Z.

And the author saying it's part of the timeline is also pretty vague and it's open to interpretation to what is meant.

[TheMightyOzaru]

So because it's not part of his early work it's non canon? The author cannot add to his story? Seriously, that is simply absurd.

How is it absurd? Dragon Ball ended. The series finished. That's a pretty good reason for it not being added to.

Ok I need you sit down and think hard about what you just said. You are stating that the creator cannot add to his own creative work. That is objectively an incorrect statement. Toriyama has connected BoG to his manga multiple times.

[Saiga]

I don't think you understand what objectivity is. Unless you think I meant that it was a physical impossibility for him to do so, which I didn't. I just don't see it as being much different from any other person who adds to the story after it's done.

[Marco Polo]

Toriyama stated Beers reduced Kaio's planet size in the manga.

However, he said it was due to Beers losing a racing video game in the manga but in the movie it was due to Beers losing a game of hide-and-seek.

[TheGmGoken]

So because it's not part of his early work it's non canon? The author cannot add to his story? Seriously, that is simply absurd.

How is it absurd? Dragon Ball ended. The series finished. That's a pretty good reason for it not being added to.

@TheGmGoken As I said, the story was FINISHED. The "author can't add to his own work?" question is absurd because nothing Toriyama has done since than has been his work alone, with the except of Neko Majin Z.

And the author saying it's part of the timeline is also pretty vague and it's open to interpretation to what is meant.

Akira didn't work ALONE in the first place. He said it's apart of Manga timeline. So it is. You're not above AKira are you?

[Saiga]

I never claimed I was, and I don't need to be above him to have my own definition of canon. You're twisting what Toriyama has said to suit your own purpose. And Akira worked with an editor, yes, but the editor-author relationship is nothing like being brought ideas and being asked to work on them, or having someone else write the script, or supervising someone else's creation of a manga.

Canon is something with no concrete definition, it's not a term used by any official authority involved with Dragon Ball, so stop acting like your definition is the only way.

[TheGmGoken]

I never claimed I was, and I don't need to be above him to have my own definition of canon. You're twisting what Toriyama has said to suit your own purpose. And Akira worked with an editor, yes, but the editor-author relationship is nothing like being brought ideas and being asked to work on them, or having someone else write the script, or supervising someone else's creation of a manga.

Canon is something with no concrete definition, it's not a term used by any official authority involved with Dragon Ball, so stop acting like your definition is the only way.

I don't even have a definition. I only go by what the author say. I don't believe in Personal canon

[Saiga]

I don't even have a definition. I only go by what the author say. I don't believe in Personal canon

The author has never said anything about canon. Personal canon is the only canon when it comes to Dragon Ball.

[TheGmGoken]

I don't even have a definition. I only go by what the author say. I don't believe in Personal canon

The author has never said anything about canon. Personal canon is the only canon when it comes to Dragon Ball.

GT - Side story on the back of the boxset for DBGT dragonbox
Manga
Movie - Alternate timelines.
BoG and YOSGAF - Stated to be apart of manga

You sure about that? I follow this.

You're twisting what Toriyama has said to suit your own purpose.

How? His said it's a continuation of the manga so I say it's apart of the manga. How is that twisting?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Toriyama stated Beers reduced Kaio's planet size in the manga.

However, he said it was due to Beers losing a racing video game in the manga but in the movie it was due to Beers losing a game of hide-and-seek.

Does it matter? It's not like Toriyama hasn't contradicted himself before. Furthermore, Saiga, if Toriyama states that it's part of his story, it's canon.

[Saiga]

According to you. That's your definition of canon. You're interpreting these things as being indicators of canonicty and non-canonicty but they're still only the way you interpret things. Stop trying to force your opinions on me, please.

[TheMightyOzaru]

According to you. That's your definition of canon. You're interpreting these things as being indicators of canonicty and non-canonicty but they're still only the way you interpret things. Stop trying to force your opinions on me, please.

Well here is the actual definition of canon:

a list of the works of an author that are accepted as authentic

If you accept the manga as canon and Toriyama directly connects his own creation to the events of another, it is canon.

[TheGmGoken]

According to you. That's your definition of canon. You're interpreting these things as being indicators of canonicty and non-canonicty but they're still only the way you interpret things. Stop trying to force your opinions on me, please.

I'm not forcing them on you. I don't even have a definition of canon. I'm just saying. You go by manga only and say "BoG isn't canon" when the author said it's apart of the manga. I don't know how much blunt can you get.

[Saiga]

That's just your interpretation, that Akira Toriyama said it's part of the manga. His various statements can be taken a number of ways.

@TheMightyOzaru That's only one definition of many, and even interpreting that definition is difficult. It says "accepted as authentic" not who it is that accepts them or what determines their authenticity. There's simply no concrete rule, as I've been saying.

[TheMightyOzaru]

That's just your interpretation, that Akira Toriyama said it's part of the manga. His various statements can be taken a number of ways.

@TheMightyOzaru That's only one definition of many, and even interpreting that definition is difficult. It says "accepted as authentic" not who it is that accepts them or what determines their authenticity. There's simply no concrete rule, as I've been saying.

It's the only definition . I know that's my point. If you accept the Manga as canon, you accept BoG as canon because Toriyama, the creator, said it was part of the manga you accept as canon. You cannot retcon BoG from the manga because you didn't create the manga. His various statements peg Beers as a canon character at the very least.

[Kamiccolo9]

That's just your interpretation, that Akira Toriyama said it's part of the manga. His various statements can be taken a number of ways.

@TheMightyOzaru That's only one definition of many, and even interpreting that definition is difficult. It says "accepted as authentic" not who it is that accepts them or what determines their authenticity. There's simply no concrete rule, as I've been saying.

It's the only definition . I know that's my point. If you accept the Manga as canon, you accept BoG as canon because Toriyama, the creator, said it was part of the manga you accept as canon. You cannot retcon BoG from the manga because you didn't create the manga.

What's the quote on it being part of the manga?

[TheGmGoken]

That's just your interpretation, that Akira Toriyama said it's part of the manga. His various statements can be taken a number of ways.

@TheMightyOzaru That's only one definition of many, and even interpreting that definition is difficult. It says "accepted as authentic" not who it is that accepts them or what determines their authenticity. There's simply no concrete rule, as I've been saying.

Interpretation? How much more blunt do you want him to be?N He said it's apart of the manga. How else is there to interpret.

What's the quote on it being part of the manga?

It's somewhere on this website. I'll go check then link. But someone might beat me.

[Saiga]

Interpretation because he never said "this is part of the manga" I don't remember the original quote but it wasn't that, so you saying he said that is the interpretation.

And no, there are more definitions of canon than that (even ignoring all the religious/musical ones). For example, "a descriptor of specific incidents, relationships, or story arcs that take place within the overall canon" taken from Wikipedia (who in turn got it from a literary paper).

And no, accepting the manga as canon means accepting the manga as canon. BoG is a movie, it is not the manga. "The manga" refers to the fucking manga. It's not talking about manga continuity or any of that, I mean the literal manga.