Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ekrolo2]

Gohan's power seemingly works like this now: he's obviously nowhere near as strong as he used to be but his base form is above Piccolo's. This leads me to think that his Mystic Form isn't gone, just considerably less powerful, putting his base above Piccolo's but still apparently beneath Fat Boo.

For comparison sake I'll put where I stack them up here:

Base Gohan = Max FPSSJ Cell Games Goku

Tagoma/Ginyu = Max Power Perfect Cell

SSJ Gohan = SSJ3 Gotenks

[buutenks]

Gohan's power seemingly works like this now: he's obviously nowhere near as strong as he used to be but his base form is above Piccolo's. This leads me to think that his Mystic Form isn't gone, just considerably less powerful, putting his base above Piccolo's but still apparently beneath Fat Boo.

For comparison sake I'll put where I stack them up here:

Base Gohan = Max FPSSJ Cell Games Goku

Tagoma/Ginyu = Max Power Perfect Cell

SSJ Gohan = SSJ3 Gotenks

mmm,idk if ssj gohan should be that high,id say inbetween ssj gotenks and ssj3 gotenks.

[ZombieVito]

Yes I think until further developments I'm going to go with this:

After several years without any training, Gohan's power in his Potential Unleashed state has greatly dropped and he is no longer as strong as when he fought Super Buu, however even without transforming he still possess power greater than the Super Namek Piccolo and on par with Tagoma. He can however power up to the level he had when fighting Super Buu by transforming into a Super Saiyan.

Now I wonder, is Ginyu stronger than SSJ Gotenks?

[ekrolo2]

Yes I think until further developments I'm going to go with this:

After several years without any training, Gohan's power in his Potential Unleashed state has greatly dropped and he is no longer as strong as when he fought Super Buu, however even without transforming he still possess power greater than the Super Namek Piccolo and on par with Tagoma. He can however power up to the level he had when fighting Super Buu by transforming into a Super Saiyan.

Now I wonder, is Ginyu stronger than SSJ Gotenks?

I don't put Tagoma above regular Cell, let alone Gotenks.

[ZombieVito]

Yes I think until further developments I'm going to go with this:

After several years without any training, Gohan's power in his Potential Unleashed state has greatly dropped and he is no longer as strong as when he fought Super Buu, however even without transforming he still possess power greater than the Super Namek Piccolo and on par with Tagoma. He can however power up to the level he had when fighting Super Buu by transforming into a Super Saiyan.

Now I wonder, is Ginyu stronger than SSJ Gotenks?

I don't put Tagoma above regular Cell, let alone Gotenks.

Gotenks surpassed Majin Vegeta after the RoSaT. It's very likely he did so in just SSJ,

[ekrolo2]

I don't put Tagoma above regular Cell, let alone Gotenks.

Gotenks surpassed Majin Vegeta after the RoSaT. It's very likely he did so in just SSJ,

Obviously lol, SSJ Gotenks can probably stalemate (at least) SSJ3 Goku.

[ZombieVito]

I don't put Tagoma above regular Cell, let alone Gotenks.

Gotenks surpassed Majin Vegeta after the RoSaT. It's very likely he did so in just SSJ,

Obviously lol, SSJ Gotenks can probably stalemate (at least) SSJ3 Goku.

Oh I read the comment wrong.

[Bullza]

In the manga Cell said that only Vegeta and Trunks were able to hold their own against the Cell Jrs, not Piccolo.

Piccolo was weaker than Imperfect Cell before going into the ROSAT. Coming out of it, he may have been around Semi Perfect Cell's level. Being on par with a Cell Jr seems fair.

Tagoma doesn't have to be ridiculously more powerful. Android 16 punched Semi Perfect Cell in the face and he also didn't budge so I see no reason why Tagoma or even Ginyu Tagoma would have to be any stronger than Perfect Cell or Dabura.

When taking into consideration Cell's regeneration and Daburas stone spit they'd probably both beat Tagoma.

[LightBing]

Even if we consider Gohan lost some power, putting him below SSJ3 Gotenks is a bit of a stretch.
There's only two examples of power drop for lack of training: Gohan in the 7 year gap post Cell Games, were we can attribute most of it to losing the rage boost, even then it isn't significant and Master Roshi from the start of the manga.

Regarding Piccolo, if this is 5/6 years after the Boo Arc. He should be at least at SSJ Goku(Cell Games) level. At the Cell Games, he is marginally weaker than Vegeta and Trunks. Piccolo keeps up his training and is shown to have decent gains. I find it very hard to believe he wasn't grown in strength with so much time in-between.

[ekrolo2]

Even if we consider Gohan lost some power, putting him below SSJ3 Gotenks is a bit of a stretch.
There's only two examples of power drop for lack of training: Gohan in the 7 year gap post Cell Games, were we can attribute most of it to losing the rage boost, even then it isn't significant and Master Roshi from the start of the manga.

Regarding Piccolo, if this is 5/6 years after the Boo Arc. He should be at least at SSJ Goku(Cell Games) level. At the Cell Games, he is marginally weaker than Vegeta and Trunks. Piccolo keeps up his training and is shown to have decent gains. I find it very hard to believe he wasn't grown in strength with so much time in-between.

I think Piccolo's everyday practice has more to do with him keeping his acquired strength intact and less about getting strength. There's also the fact Piccolo has seemingly lost his Saiyan like fighting spirit post fusion too which is what happens to every character who's arc is complete not named Goku or Vegeta.

[Hugo Boss]

Now I wonder, is Ginyu stronger than SSJ Gotenks?

Gotenks was ready to take on Freeza, so I doubt. However, Bulma said Gotenks was no match for Freeza, so the kids could be equal to Gohan at best.

[Noah]

Like Bulma could sense Ki or something...

It is really plausible to think that SSJ Gohan (DBS) is above SSJ3 Gotenks?

[ekrolo2]

Like Bulma could sense Ki or something...

It is really plausible to think that SSJ Gohan (DBS) is above SSJ3 Gotenks?

He was above him in his base form in the Boo Saga so no, its not really implausible for him to do the same with SSJ.

[Low Tone G]

I'm reading assumptions that Base Gohan is above Piccolo when there's no undisputed evidence for that... We saw that Base Gohan was still really inferior to Tagoma just like Piccolo had been earlier... In that case I personally can't really decide who is stronger Base Gohan or Piccolo! The only thing we can be sure of is that Tagoma is vastly stronger than both.

[ZombieVito]

I'm reading assumptions that Base Gohan is above Piccolo when there's no undisputed evidence for that... We saw that Base Gohan was still really inferior to Tagoma just like Piccolo had been earlier... In that case I personally can't really decide who is stronger Base Gohan or Piccolo! The only thing we can be sure of is that Tagoma is vastly stronger than both.

Gohan himself says Tagoma (Pre Ginyu) has the same BP as him....

[Low Tone G]

I'm reading assumptions that Base Gohan is above Piccolo when there's no undisputed evidence for that... We saw that Base Gohan was still really inferior to Tagoma just like Piccolo had been earlier... In that case I personally can't really decide who is stronger Base Gohan or Piccolo! The only thing we can be sure of is that Tagoma is vastly stronger than both.

Gohan himself says Tagoma (Pre Ginyu) has the same BP as him....

Really? I did not know... I only read the summary and whatched the raw version! So sorry... In this case that could mean two things:
1. Piccolo got massively weaker or lost his Super Namekian powers since the Buu saga..
Or...
2. Or Gohan's base is stronger than any of other Saiyan's meaning that he still has some of his mystic/ ultimate powers!

I'm saying this to keep Beerus' statement about Base Goku is still below Freeza valid.

[LightBing]

I'm reading assumptions that Base Gohan is above Piccolo when there's no undisputed evidence for that... We saw that Base Gohan was still really inferior to Tagoma just like Piccolo had been earlier... In that case I personally can't really decide who is stronger Base Gohan or Piccolo! The only thing we can be sure of is that Tagoma is vastly stronger than both.

Gohan himself says Tagoma (Pre Ginyu) has the same BP as him....

Really? I did not know... I only read the summary and whatched the raw version! So sorry... In this case that could mean two things:
1. Piccolo got massively weaker or lost his Super Namekian powers since the Buu saga..
Or...
2. Or Gohan's base is stronger than any of other Saiyan's meaning that he still has some of his mystic/ ultimate powers!

I'm saying this to keep Beerus' statement about Base Goku is still below Freeza valid.

Second option is likely to be true. There's no example of such a massive loss of power in the series, even less for a character who we know keeps up his training. While Gohan mentions not training and wonders if he can still go SSJ. Which makes it seem he's aware of what happened. It also keeps the tendency of modern Dragon Ball, super strong base with a SSJ transformation (SSB in the case of Vegeta and Goku).

By the way, my theory for Kame Sennin power increase is him sparring occasionally with Kuririn. Don't they live together? They might have fought sometimes, even if Kuririn is/was retired. In Dragon Ball it's normal to have big gains when fighting someone stronger, ex: Piccolo with SSJ Goku, Gohan with SSJ Goku, Tagoma with Freeza.

[ZombieVito]

There's nothing mentioned or suggesting Roshi is stronger.

I just watched an English sub and things get even more confusing.

- At the beginning of the episode Gohan says Tagoma is hiding his Ki and it might be as powerful as him at his peak.
- Ginyu calls Gohan a massive disappointment and wonders why did he decide to battle him with that puny power.
- Gohan says he can't maintain SSJ for long with his current body.

I'm starting to think Ginyu is above Super Buu tier and that is crazy.

[DragonHermit]

You guys are over-estimating Gohan's power. Remember Frieza was at least twice as strong as him in his "base" form. That would mean he went from 500 thousand to tens of billions in his base form in 4 months. That would mean he literally gained 3-400,000 x multiplier in 4 months. And that's being conservative. It could be as high as a one million times multiplier, which is just unrealistic.

Imo, Gohan SSJ now is around as strong as Gohan SSJ2 in Cell Saga.

Gohan himself says Tagoma (Pre Ginyu) has the same BP as him....

That quote was translated as "potentially" which is as useless as the 1.3 million line. Fact of the matter is, Tagoma was dispatching Gohan easily when he was in base. Gohan could barely get a hit on him.

No sorry. Piccolo is at a complete different level than 17 now. Not only did he train in the RoSaT (Managing to stand up to a freaking Cell Junior) but he also has over 12 years more of training under his belt,

You have to understand most of these characters have dropped in power. Whatever gains he made post-Cell Saga, would be undone. P.S. No one stood up to Cell Jr.s except Trunks and Vegeta.

[Hugo Boss]

I'm starting to think Ginyu is above Super Buu tier and that is crazy.

Well, even current Freeza is barely stronger than a Super Saiyan and I see no indication that Ginyu has surpassed Freeza before his 4-month training. Ginyu has just surpassed someone who has surpassed his former self.