I'm pretty sure DBM is following Salagir's interpretation of the manga, not the anime. I'm not defending DBM, I think it's quite terrible. I'm defending Salagir, because certain someone tends to interpret his message regarding DBM & GT's canonicity the way it shouldn't be interpreted.
If, according to him, both GT & DBM are non-canon, just that DBM does a better job following the manga, how in the world does that make DBM "more canon" than GT?
Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
I'm pretty sure they're many interpretation here. As other people when I showed them this took it the same way. So.....=/hleV wrote:You're definitely interpreting it wrong.
Both GT and DBM are non-canon to Salagir. There's no such thing as "more" or "less" canon to him. DBM has less contradictions to the manga than GT, that's all. Like I said, I could write a fanfic which follows the manga. It wouldn't be more canon than GT is, just better at following the manga.
DBM follows the Canon(manga) more according to him. Which makes it more canon in a way. It's like asking what follows the canon more "The anime" or "Dragonball SD" in a way f one goes by the original manga then both are non canon BUT the anime follows the canon(manga) more making it more canon than SD. So both are canon one is just less canon than the other. Confusing I know but true in a way.If, according to him, both GT & DBM are non-canon, just that DBM does a better job following the manga, how in the world does that make DBM "more canon" than GT?
Last edited by TheGmGoken on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
Again, "better job at following the manga" is not equal to "more canon". Were the people who you shown that message to of the same age as you?
I'm not against various interpretations. I'm against stupid and baseless interpretations.
I'm not against various interpretations. I'm against stupid and baseless interpretations.
Last edited by hleV on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
Ages varied from 16 to 38.hleV wrote:Again, "better job at following the manga" is not equal to "more canon". Were the people who you shown that message to of the same age as you?
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miguelnuva1
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
If you follow something better then does mean your more closely related. Example if GT says Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan right after the Buu saga and DBM said Ultimate Gohan is still stronger right after the Buu saga then DBM would be more canon even though their both non canon.hleV wrote:Again, "better job at following the manga" is not equal to "more canon". Were the people who you shown that message to of the same age as you?
I'm not against various interpretations. I'm against stupid and baseless interpretations.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
OMFG. Thank you.miguelnuva1 wrote:If you follow something better then does mean your more closely related. Example if GT says Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan right after the Buu saga and DBM said Ultimate Gohan is still stronger right after the Buu saga then DBM would be more canon even though their both non canon.hleV wrote:Again, "better job at following the manga" is not equal to "more canon". Were the people who you shown that message to of the same age as you?
I'm not against various interpretations. I'm against stupid and baseless interpretations.
Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
I can't even describe how wrong you are. If I make a fanmanga which follows the manga better than DBM, my fanmanga is gonna be more canon? That's SO WRONG.miguelnuva1 wrote:Example if GT says Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan right after the Buu saga and DBM said Ultimate Gohan is still stronger right after the Buu saga then DBM would be more canon even though their both non canon.
Unless by 'canon' we mean different things? In my case, canon is "truth to the original manga". Neither DBM not GT seem to be, just that DBM, according to Salagir, makes less contradictions to the manga, and thus does a better job following it.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
Well going into details. It wold have more traits that's canon so in a way it would be more canon. Let's used the anime and Dragonball SD thing again. If one goes by the manga canon ONLY. Both the anime and SD is non canon. But the anime is more canon since it follow story more.hleV wrote:I can't even describe how wrong you are. If I make a fanmanga which follows the manga better than DBM, my fanmanga is gonna be more canon? That's SO WRONG.miguelnuva1 wrote:Example if GT says Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan right after the Buu saga and DBM said Ultimate Gohan is still stronger right after the Buu saga then DBM would be more canon even though their both non canon.
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miguelnuva1
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
Yes you fan manga would be more canon but it is not official canon. It would officially be non canon but compared to another non canon work yours is more canon.hleV wrote:I can't even describe how wrong you are. If I make a fanmanga which follows the manga better than DBM, my fanmanga is gonna be more canon? That's SO WRONG.miguelnuva1 wrote:Example if GT says Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan right after the Buu saga and DBM said Ultimate Gohan is still stronger right after the Buu saga then DBM would be more canon even though their both non canon.
Unless by 'canon' we mean different things? In my case, canon is "truth to the original manga". Neither DBM not GT seem to be, just that DBM, according to Salagir, makes less contradictions to the manga, and thus does a better job following it.
Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
There's a difference between non-contradictory material and what actually happened, the non-contradictory material in this case being DBM (according to Salagir, of course). If I make a fanmanga which doesn't contradict the manga, that doesn't make it "more canon", it just follows manga without contradicting shit (and thus does a better job than GT). It doesn't mean that the events in my fanmanga actually happened in the original story history. That's why it's in no way canon. Not more, not less.
Last edited by hleV on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
According to this website. Db got a loose canon. So you can chose what's canon or not. Some people say AF did happen in the the story. Yes things can be more canon than others.hleV wrote:There's a difference between non-contradictory material and what actually happened, the non-contradictory material in this case being DBM (according to Salagir, of course). If I make a fanmanga which doesn't contradict the manga, that doesn't make it "more canon", it just follows manga without contradicting shit (and thus does a better job than GT). It doesn't mean that the events in my fanmanga actually happened in the original story. That's why it's in no way canon. Not more, not less.
Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
Guys, canon basically means official continuity. And a fan manga will never be part of the official continuity of Dragon Ball. Period.
Salagir knows this. But he prefers DBM to DBGT and overall he thinks that it follows the manga better. At most that could mean that in his own personal canon (as in, in his own personal preferred continuity) DBM would follow the manga. Which means that he is doing basically the same as we do in the topics where we describe our personal canon. Nothing else. He is not saying that DBM is more canon (as in official continuity) than DBGT, jeez.
Salagir knows this. But he prefers DBM to DBGT and overall he thinks that it follows the manga better. At most that could mean that in his own personal canon (as in, in his own personal preferred continuity) DBM would follow the manga. Which means that he is doing basically the same as we do in the topics where we describe our personal canon. Nothing else. He is not saying that DBM is more canon (as in official continuity) than DBGT, jeez.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
What contradictions to the manga does DBM have?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
From the top of my head, Universe 18, the one that comes straight from the manga, knows about Broli and Coola. As pointed out many, many, many times, Freeza's power level was harshly reduced by dropping one zero. There are plenty more.
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RandomGuy96
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
Cooler is an official part of the ANIME timeline, and his movie doesn't contradict anything in the manga, so... there's that.DNA wrote:From the top of my head, Universe 18, the one that comes straight from the manga, knows about Broli and Coola. As pointed out many, many, many times, Freeza's power level was harshly reduced by dropping one zero. There are plenty more.
Anyway, off the top of my head:
Freeza got nerfed, as mentioned above.
Dragon Clan Namekians and Warrior Clan Namekians fused.
King Cold got massively buffed and pulled two new transformations out of his ass, while in the manga he flat-out said Freeza was the strongest in the universe.
There's more, but I can't think of any right now. And he certainly contradicts the movies and specials a lot and ignores the the guidebooks.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
To be fair, Cold might have been humoring Freeza, and flattering Trunks to catch him off guard. It would fit with what we see of his personality. Not a theory I subscribe to myself, but it's possible.RandomGuy96 wrote:Cooler is an official part of the ANIME timeline, and his movie doesn't contradict anything in the manga, so... there's that.DNA wrote:From the top of my head, Universe 18, the one that comes straight from the manga, knows about Broli and Coola. As pointed out many, many, many times, Freeza's power level was harshly reduced by dropping one zero. There are plenty more.
Anyway, off the top of my head:
Freeza got nerfed, as mentioned above.
Dragon Clan Namekians and Warrior Clan Namekians fused.
King Cold got massively buffed and pulled two new transformations out of his ass, while in the manga he flat-out said Freeza was the strongest in the universe.
There's more, but I can't think of any right now. And he certainly contradicts the movies and specials a lot and ignores the the guidebooks.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
That may be, but he said he follows the Manga timeline. Direct contradiction or not, Coola does not exist in the manga. Furthermore, like you say, Cold flat out says Freeza is the strongest in the universe, wouldn't you think he would mention his other son, who happens to be stronger?RandomGuy96 wrote:Cooler is an official part of the ANIME timeline, and his movie doesn't contradict anything in the manga, so... there's that.
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RandomGuy96
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
Cooler said that no one had seen his fifth transformation. He might have only been stronger than Freeza with that.That may be, but he said he follows the Manga timeline. Direct contradiction or not, Coola does not exist in the manga. Furthermore, like you say, Cold flat out says Freeza is the strongest in the universe, wouldn't you think he would mention his other son, who happens to be stronger?
So basically another way of saying "No, Cold is the strongest, he was just lying each time he said he wasn't, and was pretending to cower in fear of someone who killed Freeza". Yeah, that's even worse logic than the logic employed by the Goku > Super Buu believers.To be fair, Cold might have been humoring Freeza, and flattering Trunks to catch him off guard. It would fit with what we see of his personality. Not a theory I subscribe to myself, but it's possible.
On another note, DBM makes Cold look really fucking dumb.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
I just said that it was possible. And unlike Goku, it actually fits with what we see of Cold's personality. And Cold can be stronger than Freeza, yet still be weaker than Trunks.RandomGuy96 wrote:So basically another way of saying "No, Cold is the strongest, he was just lying each time he said he wasn't, and was pretending to cower in fear of someone who killed Freeza". Yeah, that's even worse logic than the logic employed by the Goku > Super Buu believers.To be fair, Cold might have been humoring Freeza, and flattering Trunks to catch him off guard. It would fit with what we see of his personality. Not a theory I subscribe to myself, but it's possible.
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Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
The first Coola movie contradicts the main series in two primary ways:
Goku hasn't mastered transforming into Super Saiyan yet (only doing it when his emotions are running high); yet, in the anime and manga, he demonstrated that the transformation had become simple for him to perform when he sparred with Trunks.
Gohan has a tail when he shouldn't.
Sure, you can easily explain both of those away, but just because fans can fill in plot holes with their theories, the holes are still there.
Goku hasn't mastered transforming into Super Saiyan yet (only doing it when his emotions are running high); yet, in the anime and manga, he demonstrated that the transformation had become simple for him to perform when he sparred with Trunks.
Gohan has a tail when he shouldn't.
Sure, you can easily explain both of those away, but just because fans can fill in plot holes with their theories, the holes are still there.