TheMightyOzaru wrote:Game mechanics? I guess Mario can survive being killed multiple times because he has one-ups? Game mechanics shouldn't be involved in this. Reality warping can involve simply erasing you from existence. I don't think Kratos can survive that.
Kratos, no. H-Kratos, yes. He's infused with a concept, and concepts aren't part of reality.
A concept isn't part of reality because...?
dbzfan7 wrote:Hope they do more episodes like Goku vs Superman and He-Man vs Lion-O. I love the banter those episodes had. I also find it funny how they say He-man isn't as strong as Superman, yet the stats they put up with his harness are above Superman pre-sun dip strength.
I don't think that's the case. He had his harness on while moving the moon and that's still nowhere near 10x the strength needed to push Earth.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
Seriously, this is loopy now. Our own concepts of logic and reason are limited by rational observation. We can only go so far before logic and reason just break down making any form of comparison moot. You can't rationalize your way through something when our concept of logic ceases to apply. That's what makes paintings of mind fuck geometries so awesome in the first place. Like I said: Looney Tunes. Once you get into powers that implicate the nature of reality it all turns into Duck Amuck. Daffy vs. the Animator.
At what point does a versus match become a philosophy class?
Last edited by TonyTheTiger on Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Game mechanics? I guess Mario can survive being killed multiple times because he has one-ups? Game mechanics shouldn't be involved in this. Reality warping can involve simply erasing you from existence. I don't think Kratos can survive that.
Kratos, no. H-Kratos, yes. He's infused with a concept, and concepts aren't part of reality.
A concept isn't part of reality because...?
dbzfan7 wrote:Hope they do more episodes like Goku vs Superman and He-Man vs Lion-O. I love the banter those episodes had. I also find it funny how they say He-man isn't as strong as Superman, yet the stats they put up with his harness are above Superman pre-sun dip strength.
I don't think that's the case. He had his harness on while moving the moon and that's still nowhere near 10x the strength needed to push Earth.
It's not that I don't think Superman is stronger. What I mean is in the quintillion tons shown on the wizboard. He-man has bigger number. Besides Superman had Hal's help.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:It's not that I don't think Superman is stronger. What I mean is in the quintillion tons shown on the wizboard. He-man has bigger number. Besides Superman had Hal's help.
Wasn't He-man's best strength feat lifting something within quadrillion tons?
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
dbzfan7 wrote:It's not that I don't think Superman is stronger. What I mean is in the quintillion tons shown on the wizboard. He-man has bigger number. Besides Superman had Hal's help.
Wasn't He-man's best strength feat lifting something within quadrillion tons?
I believe Superman is stronger, but they have He-man clocked at 70 quintillion metric tons (81 quintillion short tons US) with his harness. Superman was clocked at 66.6 quintillion in the Superman vs Goku fight before Sun dipping.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:A concept isn't part of reality because...?
Does it have mass? Energy? Can you quantify it?
Honestly, I don't know what to say anymore. You guys won't accept statements, world-building exposition, cutscene feats, in-game feats... what the hell will you accept?
What feats are we disregarding? A concept is still part of reality because it exists. Furthermore, what is stop said reality warp from removing Kratos from reality? He's still an object that can be seen or touched.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
TheMightyOzaru wrote:What feats are we disregarding? A concept is still part of reality because it exists. Furthermore, what is stop said reality warp from removing Kratos from reality? He's still an object that can be seen or touched.
I doubt reality warping would even be needed. I agree with the result death battle did with him and Spawn
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:What feats are we disregarding?
My bad, I misremembered you as the guy I was arguing with several weeks ago about GoW stuff here.
Yeah, reality-warpers could do it, but I agree with the other guy that it gets very Looney Tunes.
It totally does get looney toons .
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
TheMightyOzaru wrote:...You have no idea what Spawn is capable of do you?
No, not really. I remember him as being a tough badass, but not on the level of blowing up planet then taking a lunch break. So how would Spawn go about killing Superman?
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
TheMightyOzaru wrote:...You have no idea what Spawn is capable of do you?
No, not really. I remember him as being a tough badass, but not on the level of blowing up planet then taking a lunch break. So how would Spawn go about killing Superman?
He kinda killed God, practically Omnipotent, and Satan....
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
TheMightyOzaru wrote:...You have no idea what Spawn is capable of do you?
No, not really. I remember him as being a tough badass, but not on the level of blowing up planet then taking a lunch break. So how would Spawn go about killing Superman?
He kinda killed God and Satan....
Shit, I thought you were talking about Kami & Mr. Satan for a moment, and I was like "What's so impressive that Spawn killed them? Wait, something is wrong..."
I have to sleep...
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:...You have no idea what Spawn is capable of do you?
No, not really. I remember him as being a tough badass, but not on the level of blowing up planet then taking a lunch break. So how would Spawn go about killing Superman?
He kinda killed God, practically Omnipotent, and Satan....
And then changes the earth into his image with his powers.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Spawn killed "a god" and not even the head god of his universe.
I'm sure that cat god in the new DBZ movie could probably demonish Spawn's God with his finger.
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
GS7X7 wrote:Spawn killed "a god" and not even the head god of his universe.
I'm sure that cat god in the new DBZ movie could probably demonish Spawn's God with his finger.
But i'm pretty sure Spawn has only one God who has total omnipotense.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
GS7X7 wrote:Spawn killed "a god" and not even the head god of his universe.
I'm sure that cat god in the new DBZ movie could probably demonish Spawn's God with his finger.
The God in Spawn is supposed to be the Christian one which is supposed to be Omnipotent.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
GS7X7 wrote:Spawn killed "a god" and not even the head god of his universe.
I'm sure that cat god in the new DBZ movie could probably demonish Spawn's God with his finger.
The God in Spawn is supposed to be the Christian one which is supposed to be Omnipotent.
Exactly. I still wonder how Spawn was able to take him and Satan down without some sort of power increase. Was it before or after he got powers from the mother of all things. If before how does he beat beings above him.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I am still baffled at how he got away with killing GOD! The dude is Omnipotent, he is the epitome of someone who cannot be defeated .
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
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