Zombie wrote:There's nothing mentioned or suggesting Roshi is stronger.
Roshi using max power in battle all the time, something he never did before, clearly suggests that he's stronger than before.
DragonHermit wrote:
That quote was translated as "potentially" which is as useless as the 1.3 million line. Fact of the matter is, Tagoma was dispatching Gohan easily when he was in base. Gohan could barely get a hit on him.
The only exchange between Gohan and Tagoma this episode was Gohan sending Tagoma flying with a generic ki blast, but Tagoma recovering without being hurt by it. You're talking about Ginyu vs Gohan, but it was stated that Ginyu was stronger than Tagoma so those aren't the same thing.
DragonHermit wrote:You have to understand most of these characters have dropped in power. Whatever gains he made post-Cell Saga, would be undone. P.S. No one stood up to Cell Jr.s except Trunks and Vegeta.
There's no line or context suggesting that Piccolo slacked or got weaker though, unlike, say, Kuririn and Gohan.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Is it really though? I mean, it's ultimately up to Gohan to ensure that he maintain his strength from when he had his latent power brought to it's maximum level, so that he can access all of the power that is Ultimate form provides with now. Then he slacks off from training (again) and now his BP has dipped to the point where he can't access automatically all of the latent power that was brought out of him by Elder Kai. Seems like a pretty open-and-shut case to me. Unless I'm missing something.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Is is really though? I mean, it's ultimately up to Gohan to ensure that he maintain his strength from when he had his latent power brought to it's maximum level, so that he can access all of the power that is Ultimate form provides with now. Then he slacks off from training (again) and now his BP has dipped to the point where he can't access automatically all of the latent power that was brought out of him by Elder Kai. Seems like a pretty open-and-shut case to me. Unless I'm missing something.
I only want clarification that indeed is Super Saiyan form grants him access to all his Mystic power that he can't anymore in base. It's the only logical way this can end.
Rewatch Beerus "sensing" Goku. Beerus can't sense ki.
Feats: base Gohan > Piccolo, base Goten with hindering suit ~ #18
Canon is Jaco, Dragon Ball except for EoZ, Dragon Ball Super anime and manga (both are separate canons)
Kai >>> Z
Current Roshi/Kulilin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 Gotenks
Base Gohan clearly isn't as weak as base Gokuu was at the start of Super, but he can't draw out the full power of his Ultimate form in his base state.
You know, it would actually make sense if his Base state was > Piccolo, but as a Super Saiyan he regained his Ultimate-level power with a 50x multiplier.
it might not even be 50x multiplayer seeing as how ssgss doesnt look like its a 50x multiplier either
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
Base Gohan < Piccolo < Tagoma < Tagoma [powered-up] < SS Gohan < 1st form Freeza < Perfect Cell
If you really want base Gohan to be stronger than Piccolo, then you can just assume that Super works on anime logic, where Super Saiyan is less than a x2 boost, and Super Saiyan 3 is maybe x1.25 stronger than Super Saiyan 2.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
RandomGuy96 wrote:I still don't see any problem with:
Base Gohan < Piccolo < Tagoma < Tagoma [powered-up] < SS Gohan < 1st form Freeza < Perfect Cell
If you really want base Gohan to be stronger than Piccolo, then you can just assume that Super works on anime logic, where Super Saiyan is less than a x2 boost, and Super Saiyan 3 is maybe x1.25 stronger than Super Saiyan 2.
The problem is that Tagoma is stated to be on par with base Gohan.
Zombie wrote:Dude... Gohan is not a normal Saiyan. Besides he was never compared to Freeza, only Goku was.
Yeah, I agree.
Even if he's no longer in his prime (he outright confirms, according to Dragon Team's subs, that he is not in his prime anymore), he is still clearly well above the level of Base Gokuu and Vegeta at the start of Super. As for Tagoma...
Well, Gohan actually says he has at least as much power within him as he did in his prime. He tears off Piccolo's arm, and a blast from Gohan has no real effect on him. Once he goes Super Saiyan, however, he easily dominates even Ginyu!Tagoma...
Though when I say "even", I have to debate whether or not Ginyu is in fact any stronger, since I don't think there was any clear indication of that in the episode.
RandomGuy96 wrote:I still don't see any problem with:
Base Gohan < Piccolo < Tagoma < Tagoma [powered-up] < SS Gohan < 1st form Freeza < Perfect Cell
If you really want base Gohan to be stronger than Piccolo, then you can just assume that Super works on anime logic, where Super Saiyan is less than a x2 boost, and Super Saiyan 3 is maybe x1.25 stronger than Super Saiyan 2.
The problem is that Tagoma is stated to be on par with base Gohan.
Is he? Then go with option 2.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
RandomGuy96 wrote:I still don't see any problem with:
Base Gohan < Piccolo < Tagoma < Tagoma [powered-up] < SS Gohan < 1st form Freeza < Perfect Cell
If you really want base Gohan to be stronger than Piccolo, then you can just assume that Super works on anime logic, where Super Saiyan is less than a x2 boost, and Super Saiyan 3 is maybe x1.25 stronger than Super Saiyan 2.
The problem is that Tagoma is stated to be on par with base Gohan.
Is he? Then go with option 2.
If I'm not using the official multiplier then I'll rather used the theory I said a few posts back.
You know, I'm actually starting to like Dragon Ball Super for jumbling up the fighter rankings. The staff clearly don't give a flying fuck about power level consistency, and I love them for that. All they're doing is highlighting that Dragon Ball's exponential power inflation is a complete farce.
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Augenis wrote:The power level view into the series has trained a significant portion of the fan base into real life stereotypical members of the Freeza empire, where each and every individual is reduced to a floating number above their heads and any sudden changes to said number are met with shock and confusion.
ParkerAL wrote:The staff clearly don't give a flying fuck about power level consistency, and I love them for that. All they're doing is highlighting that Dragon Ball's exponential power inflation is a complete farce.
I don't know how that's a good thing, really. Toriyama was not a mathematical genius, but at least he tried to keep consistent. Toei always screw the things up since original DB, with fillers and extra content that confused our minds, I think I'm getting used to but I still don't like the way they do with BPs and stuff.
Last edited by Noah on Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
ParkerAL wrote:You know, I'm actually starting to like Dragon Ball Super for jumbling up the fighter rankings. The staff clearly don't give a flying fuck about power level consistency, and I love them for that. All they're doing is highlighting that Dragon Ball's exponential power inflation is a complete farce.
How could a lack of consistency possibly be a good thing? And power inflation isn't a farce just because they're choosing to be stupid with it.
xmysticgohanx wrote:base Saiyans > Piccolo > Freeza
Rewatch Beerus "sensing" Goku. Beerus can't sense ki.
Feats: base Gohan > Piccolo, base Goten with hindering suit ~ #18
Dude... Gohan is not a normal Saiyan. Besides he was never compared to Freeza, only Goku was.
Gohan has none of his ultimate traits. Not the hair, eyes, etc. Unlike GT
Go rewatch Beerus "sensing" Goku, Beerus can't sense ki. Freeza > base Saiyans is only a common belief on Kanzenshuu. Not that there's anything wrong with believing that or only going on Kanzenshuu but I knew base Saiyans > Freeza would be proven more conclusively, the #18 fight should've been enough, as time goes on.
And even if Beerus could sense ki, which he can't, feats > statements
Canon is Jaco, Dragon Ball except for EoZ, Dragon Ball Super anime and manga (both are separate canons)
Kai >>> Z
Current Roshi/Kulilin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 Gotenks
RandomGuy96 wrote:I still don't see any problem with:
Base Gohan < Piccolo < Tagoma < Tagoma [powered-up] < SS Gohan < 1st form Freeza < Perfect Cell
If you really want base Gohan to be stronger than Piccolo, then you can just assume that Super works on anime logic, where Super Saiyan is less than a x2 boost, and Super Saiyan 3 is maybe x1.25 stronger than Super Saiyan 2.
We know it runs on anime logic.
It's written by Toei, it references anime-only filler, and, at this point, is entirely anime filler in its own right. There's no reason to try to attach this stuff to the manga when its obviously meant to be a continuation of the anime.
