Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Neon Z]

There's nothing mentioned or suggesting Roshi is stronger.

Roshi using max power in battle all the time, something he never did before, clearly suggests that he's stronger than before.

That quote was translated as "potentially" which is as useless as the 1.3 million line. Fact of the matter is, Tagoma was dispatching Gohan easily when he was in base. Gohan could barely get a hit on him.

The only exchange between Gohan and Tagoma this episode was Gohan sending Tagoma flying with a generic ki blast, but Tagoma recovering without being hurt by it. You're talking about Ginyu vs Gohan, but it was stated that Ginyu was stronger than Tagoma so those aren't the same thing.

You have to understand most of these characters have dropped in power. Whatever gains he made post-Cell Saga, would be undone. P.S. No one stood up to Cell Jr.s except Trunks and Vegeta.

There's no line or context suggesting that Piccolo slacked or got weaker though, unlike, say, Kuririn and Gohan.

[Noah]

Discussing battle powers in DBS are starting to be a big mess even bigger than GT, I don't know what to think:

Base Gohan/Tagoma = FPSSJ-Tier?

Ginyu!Tagoma = SSJ2-Tier?

Ultimate SSJ Gohan = SSJ3-Tier?

1st Form Freeza = Above a SSJ3-Tier?

[ZombieVito]

The only real mess is Gohan.

[Lord Beerus]

The only real mess is Gohan.

Is it really though? I mean, it's ultimately up to Gohan to ensure that he maintain his strength from when he had his latent power brought to it's maximum level, so that he can access all of the power that is Ultimate form provides with now. Then he slacks off from training (again) and now his BP has dipped to the point where he can't access automatically all of the latent power that was brought out of him by Elder Kai. Seems like a pretty open-and-shut case to me. Unless I'm missing something.

[ZombieVito]

The only real mess is Gohan.

Is is really though? I mean, it's ultimately up to Gohan to ensure that he maintain his strength from when he had his latent power brought to it's maximum level, so that he can access all of the power that is Ultimate form provides with now. Then he slacks off from training (again) and now his BP has dipped to the point where he can't access automatically all of the latent power that was brought out of him by Elder Kai. Seems like a pretty open-and-shut case to me. Unless I'm missing something.

I only want clarification that indeed is Super Saiyan form grants him access to all his Mystic power that he can't anymore in base. It's the only logical way this can end.

[xmysticgohanx]

base Saiyans > Piccolo > Freeza

Rewatch Beerus "sensing" Goku. Beerus can't sense ki.

Feats: base Gohan > Piccolo, base Goten with hindering suit ~ #18

[Blackstripe]

Base Gohan clearly isn't as weak as base Gokuu was at the start of Super, but he can't draw out the full power of his Ultimate form in his base state.

You know, it would actually make sense if his Base state was > Piccolo, but as a Super Saiyan he regained his Ultimate-level power with a 50x multiplier.

[kinisking]

it might not even be 50x multiplayer seeing as how ssgss doesnt look like its a 50x multiplier either

[ZombieVito]

base Saiyans > Piccolo > Freeza

Rewatch Beerus "sensing" Goku. Beerus can't sense ki.

Feats: base Gohan > Piccolo, base Goten with hindering suit ~ #18

Dude... Gohan is not a normal Saiyan. Besides he was never compared to Freeza, only Goku was.

[RandomGuy96]

I still don't see any problem with:

Base Gohan < Piccolo < Tagoma < Tagoma [powered-up] < SS Gohan < 1st form Freeza < Perfect Cell

If you really want base Gohan to be stronger than Piccolo, then you can just assume that Super works on anime logic, where Super Saiyan is less than a x2 boost, and Super Saiyan 3 is maybe x1.25 stronger than Super Saiyan 2.

[ZombieVito]

I still don't see any problem with:

Base Gohan < Piccolo < Tagoma < Tagoma [powered-up] < SS Gohan < 1st form Freeza < Perfect Cell

If you really want base Gohan to be stronger than Piccolo, then you can just assume that Super works on anime logic, where Super Saiyan is less than a x2 boost, and Super Saiyan 3 is maybe x1.25 stronger than Super Saiyan 2.

The problem is that Tagoma is stated to be on par with base Gohan.

[Blackstripe]

Dude... Gohan is not a normal Saiyan. Besides he was never compared to Freeza, only Goku was.

Yeah, I agree.

Even if he's no longer in his prime (he outright confirms, according to Dragon Team's subs, that he is not in his prime anymore), he is still clearly well above the level of Base Gokuu and Vegeta at the start of Super. As for Tagoma...

Well, Gohan actually says he has at least as much power within him as he did in his prime. He tears off Piccolo's arm, and a blast from Gohan has no real effect on him. Once he goes Super Saiyan, however, he easily dominates even Ginyu!Tagoma...

Though when I say "even", I have to debate whether or not Ginyu is in fact any stronger, since I don't think there was any clear indication of that in the episode.

[RandomGuy96]

I still don't see any problem with:

Base Gohan < Piccolo < Tagoma < Tagoma [powered-up] < SS Gohan < 1st form Freeza < Perfect Cell

If you really want base Gohan to be stronger than Piccolo, then you can just assume that Super works on anime logic, where Super Saiyan is less than a x2 boost, and Super Saiyan 3 is maybe x1.25 stronger than Super Saiyan 2.

The problem is that Tagoma is stated to be on par with base Gohan.

Is he? Then go with option 2.

[ZombieVito]

I still don't see any problem with:

Base Gohan < Piccolo < Tagoma < Tagoma [powered-up] < SS Gohan < 1st form Freeza < Perfect Cell

If you really want base Gohan to be stronger than Piccolo, then you can just assume that Super works on anime logic, where Super Saiyan is less than a x2 boost, and Super Saiyan 3 is maybe x1.25 stronger than Super Saiyan 2.

The problem is that Tagoma is stated to be on par with base Gohan.

Is he? Then go with option 2.

If I'm not using the official multiplier then I'll rather used the theory I said a few posts back.

[ParkerAL]

You know, I'm actually starting to like Dragon Ball Super for jumbling up the fighter rankings. The staff clearly don't give a flying fuck about power level consistency, and I love them for that. All they're doing is highlighting that Dragon Ball's exponential power inflation is a complete farce.

[Noah]

The staff clearly don't give a flying fuck about power level consistency, and I love them for that. All they're doing is highlighting that Dragon Ball's exponential power inflation is a complete farce.

I don't know how that's a good thing, really. Toriyama was not a mathematical genius, but at least he tried to keep consistent. Toei always screw the things up since original DB, with fillers and extra content that confused our minds, I think I'm getting used to but I still don't like the way they do with BPs and stuff.

[Vice]

You know, I'm actually starting to like Dragon Ball Super for jumbling up the fighter rankings. The staff clearly don't give a flying fuck about power level consistency, and I love them for that. All they're doing is highlighting that Dragon Ball's exponential power inflation is a complete farce.

How could a lack of consistency possibly be a good thing? And power inflation isn't a farce just because they're choosing to be stupid with it.

[xmysticgohanx]

base Saiyans > Piccolo > Freeza

Rewatch Beerus "sensing" Goku. Beerus can't sense ki.

Feats: base Gohan > Piccolo, base Goten with hindering suit ~ #18

Dude... Gohan is not a normal Saiyan. Besides he was never compared to Freeza, only Goku was.

Gohan has none of his ultimate traits. Not the hair, eyes, etc. Unlike GT

Go rewatch Beerus "sensing" Goku, Beerus can't sense ki. Freeza > base Saiyans is only a common belief on Kanzenshuu. Not that there's anything wrong with believing that or only going on Kanzenshuu but I knew base Saiyans > Freeza would be proven more conclusively, the #18 fight should've been enough, as time goes on.

And even if Beerus could sense ki, which he can't, feats > statements

[perucho1990]

It looks like Gohan is as weak as his Buu Saga self pre Mystic power up(He used SSJ while battling Dabura).

Gotenks is obviously weaker than his Buu Saga self(Even his Buu Saga Pre Rosat counterpart because his fusion ran out quickly)

The only mess in DBS is easily Master Roshi

[Kamiccolo9]

I still don't see any problem with:

Base Gohan < Piccolo < Tagoma < Tagoma [powered-up] < SS Gohan < 1st form Freeza < Perfect Cell

If you really want base Gohan to be stronger than Piccolo, then you can just assume that Super works on anime logic, where Super Saiyan is less than a x2 boost, and Super Saiyan 3 is maybe x1.25 stronger than Super Saiyan 2.

We know it runs on anime logic.

It's written by Toei, it references anime-only filler, and, at this point, is entirely anime filler in its own right. There's no reason to try to attach this stuff to the manga when its obviously meant to be a continuation of the anime.