Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods"

[penguintruth]

If at the moment Vegeta was more powerful than Goku, he should have transformed into SSJ3, at least.

Which would have also been bullcrap. Vegeta can't surpass Goku if he can't even go SSJ3, and he shouldn't be able to do so.

[TheGmGoken]

...It's completely different. Gohan's boosts were an established thing that was attributed to his hybrid nature.

Hold on, did the Manga ever say anything about his power boosts being attributed to his hybrid nature? Did the ANIME ever say that?

Furthermore, I stand by what I said. Emotion has, many times, unleashed an UNBELIEVABLE amount of power from many of the characters. If you'll notice, after that barrage, he loses his Super Saiyan form. As such, I suggest that in that moment, he unleashed every bit of his power. Unlike Son, who went at him fully powered up, but mostly calm and collected.

Daizenshuu sa.... . It was explained that half saiyans have hidden power that expresses through emotions.

Vegeta on the other hand got it randomly out of nowhere. Maybe he had himself injected with human blood so he could be a half breed.

THAT"S CHEATING!

[jjgp1112]

The whole damn point of the "YOU ARE NUMBAA WAN" speech in the Buu arc was Vegeta acknowledging that Goku is just plain better, and he's learned to live with it. If Vegeta is suddenly stronger than Goku, why even HAVE higher forms of Super Saiyan? Sorry, but Vegeta just isn't nearly as powerful as Goku. SSJ3 is higher than SSJ. End of story.

This is why the new manga ending was bullshit. "I'll beat you some day!" No, no you won't. That was the entire point of just a few chapters ago, that you knew you couldn't.

At the end of the day, Vegeta's still a Saiyan, and he still strives to be the strongest he can be. The "You're the best" speech was Vegeta acknowledging why he couldn't catch up with Goku, and from that point on he's no longer completely obsessed with surpassing Goku. Instead, it's a positive, sportly desire to be stronger rather than trying to stroke his ego. It's a goal for him to strive for, a motivation to become stronger rather than brag about how huge his dick is.

[Avenged]

If at the moment Vegeta was more powerful than Goku, he should have transformed into SSJ3, at least.

Which would have also been bullcrap. Vegeta can't surpass Goku if he can't even go SSJ3, and he shouldn't be able to do so.

Why not? Gohan did it.

[TheGmGoken]

If at the moment Vegeta was more powerful than Goku, he should have transformed into SSJ3, at least.

Which would have also been bullcrap. Vegeta can't surpass Goku if he can't even go SSJ3, and he shouldn't be able to do so.

Why not? Gohan did it.

And Gohan was explained. Half Breeds > Full Breeds said by Vegeta. Hell Picciolo said Gohan had hidden powers. Vegeta is a full Saiyan. Weaker than Goku. Whoever help this movie was either a Bias Vegeta fan or they wanted a PISS POOR excuse on how VEgeta can catch up to Goku.

[Gyt Kaliba]

The whole damn point of the "YOU ARE NUMBAA WAN" speech in the Buu arc was Vegeta acknowledging that Goku is just plain better, and he's learned to live with it. If Vegeta is suddenly stronger than Goku, why even HAVE higher forms of Super Saiyan? Sorry, but Vegeta just isn't nearly as powerful as Goku. SSJ3 is higher than SSJ. End of story.

This is why the new manga ending was bullshit. "I'll beat you some day!" No, no you won't. That was the entire point of just a few chapters ago, that you knew you couldn't.

At the end of the day, Vegeta's still a Saiyan, and he still strives to be the strongest he can be. The "You're the best" speech was Vegeta acknowledging why he couldn't catch up with Goku, and from that point on he's no longer completely obsessed with surpassing Goku. Instead, it's a positive, sportly desire to be stronger rather than trying to stroke his ego. It's a goal for him to strive for, a motivation to become stronger rather than brag about how huge his dick is.

Exactly this, as I have agreed with before. There may not be anything to suggest that this is the case in the manga proper, so if someone wants to swear by just that alone, well I guess it might not necessarily be true. But we already saw in the JSAT special that Vegeta still likes to compete with Goku - be it via eating, or through their kids, or even just by getting to fight when Goku doesn't get to. He still seems to want to show Goku up in some way if he can, but it's just an amusing personality quirk for him now rather than an annoying ranting side that pops up every time he gets his butt kicked like it did before. And I much prefer that.

Yeesh, people complain when nobody but Goku gets to do anything, and then when a small bone gets tossed to someone else, they start to bicker over whether it's right or not. This is why we can't have nice things!

[KaiserNeko]

If at the moment Vegeta was more powerful than Goku, he should have transformed into SSJ3, at least.

Which would have also been bullcrap. Vegeta can't surpass Goku if he can't even go SSJ3, and he shouldn't be able to do so.

The whole damn point of the "YOU ARE NUMBAA WAN" speech in the Buu arc was Vegeta acknowledging that Goku is just plain better, and he's learned to live with it. If Vegeta is suddenly stronger than Goku, why even HAVE higher forms of Super Saiyan? Sorry, but Vegeta just isn't nearly as powerful as Goku. SSJ3 is higher than SSJ. End of story.

This is why the new manga ending was bullshit. "I'll beat you some day!" No, no you won't. That was the entire point of just a few chapters ago, that you knew you couldn't.

Yes, Vegeta has learned to live with Goku being stronger than him. That doesn't mean Vegeta wouldn't get some pleasure out of, if even for a moment, being stronger than Goku. This is more realistic.

And SSJ3 Goku IS indeed stronger than SSJ2 Goku, or even SSJ2 Vegeta. But as I said before: In that instance, he was stronger. Most likely because he used all his energy in that one barrage. I honestly do not see the problem with that.

I also don't agree with this whole, "He should have turned SSJ3 then!" line of thinking. There's nothing to say that SSJ3 can only be accomplished by upping one's battle power to that point.

[Kakarot88]

...It's completely different. Gohan's boosts were an established thing that was attributed to his hybrid nature.

Yeah you're right Vegeta did not get a rage boost when Trunks was killed by Cell...

[dbzfan7]

And Gohan was explained. Half Breeds > Full Breeds said by Vegeta. Hell Picciolo said Gohan had hidden powers. Vegeta is a full Saiyan. Weaker than Goku. Whoever help this movie was either a Bias Vegeta fan or they wanted a PISS POOR excuse on how VEgeta can catch up to Goku.

Watanabe openly admitted he was a huge Vegeta fan and that he was the secret star of dragon ball.

[Saiga]

...It's completely different. Gohan's boosts were an established thing that was attributed to his hybrid nature.

Hold on, did the Manga ever say anything about his power boosts being attributed to his hybrid nature?

Yes. Well, it was also because Gohan himself was special, but it was both.

Furthermore, I stand by what I said. Emotion has, many times, unleashed an UNBELIEVABLE amount of power from many of the characters. If you'll notice, after that barrage, he loses his Super Saiyan form. As such, I suggest that in that moment, he unleashed every bit of his power. Unlike Son, who went at him fully powered up, but mostly calm and collected.

No, it hasn't. I can't think of one none-Gohan example of an emotion boost.

[penguintruth]

Somebody in SSJ should not be capable of being as powerful, certainly not surpass, somebody in SSJ3, without reaching that form. That's the entire point of having higher Super Saiyan forms! For somebody (non-fused) in regular SSJ form, or even SSJ2 to even for a moment be as or more powerful than SSJ3 should be impossible. It's like saying for a moment a mouse was as strong as a bull.

Now Vegeta fans aren't going to stop nattering on about how Vegeta is more powerful than Goku and then I have to blood let.

If at the moment Vegeta was more powerful than Goku, he should have transformed into SSJ3, at least.

Which would have also been bullcrap. Vegeta can't surpass Goku if he can't even go SSJ3, and he shouldn't be able to do so.

Why not? Gohan did it.

That was because of the old Kaioshin! Totally different!

So is fusion.

Shut up!

[TheGmGoken]

And SSJ3 IS indeed stronger than SSJ2. But as I said before: In that instance, he was stronger. Most likely because he used all his energy in that one barrage. I honestly do not see the problem with that.

Cause the POWER OF LOVE OVER COMES ALL! The power of bullshit Power ups is remarkable. Vegeta watching Bulma get slapped would have been better because it would make Vegeta want to become stronger even more. Not some random ass Power saying "Wait I can surpass Kakarot". Fuck that. NONE of Gohan's rage boost did he get 4x stronger. But Vegeta suddenly gets a 5x Rage boost.

Yeah you're right Vegeta did not get a rage boost when Trunks was killed by Cell...

Did it make him stronger than SSJ2 Gohan? NOPE.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Remember when Gohan beat the shit out of second form Freeza? How is this any different?

...It's completely different. Gohan's boosts were an established thing that was attributed to his hybrid nature.

It's also the fact that Vegeta's rage boost completely exhausted Vegeta. Goku also said that this happened because he pushed himself too much.

Gohan, on the other hand, draws power from his dormant powers because he is a Saiyan Halfling, and it never exhausted him.

The whole damn point of the "YOU ARE NUMBAA WAN" speech in the Buu arc was Vegeta acknowledging that Goku is just plain better, and he's learned to live with it. If Vegeta is suddenly stronger than Goku, why even HAVE higher forms of Super Saiyan? Sorry, but Vegeta just isn't nearly as powerful as Goku. SSJ3 is higher than SSJ. End of story.

This is why the new manga ending was bullshit. "I'll beat you some day!" No, no you won't. That was the entire point of just a few chapters ago, that you knew you couldn't.

Vegeta admitted that Goku was better than him, but that doesn't mean that he will stop trying to surpass him. Before that, Vegeta was saying all the time that he was better or that he should be better because he was a super elite, while Goku was a low-class warrior. Now, Vegeta acknowledged Goku's strength, but that doesn't mean they stopped being rivals.

Also, Vegeta was most likely a Super Saiyan 2.

[KaiserNeko]

Upon reflection, I do suppose Gohan is one of the only characters to exhibit a rage boost in the series.

However? I still stand by what I said! Vegeta exhausting all his power as SSJ2 in that one barrage was more powerful than simple, calculated attacks by SSJ3 Goku. I can buy that.

[penguintruth]

Vegeta admitted that Goku was better than him, but that doesn't mean that he will stop trying to surpass him. Before that, Vegeta was saying all the time that he was better or that he should be better because he was a super elite, while Goku was a low-class warrior. Now, Vegeta acknowledged Goku's strength, but that doesn't mean they stopped being rivals.

Also, Vegeta was most likely a Super Saiyan 2.

If Vegeta was just admitting that Goku was more powerful just at that point in time, it makes the scene MEANINGLESS, because Vegeta had known Goku surpassed him a bunch of times before. He was instead acknowledging that there's a fundamental difference in them, that Goku will always be ahead.

For the scene to mean anything else would make it entirely pointless, as would most of Vegeta's development.

[Kakarot88]

Did it make him stronger than SSJ2 Gohan? NOPE.

Nah but Vegeta's base was weaker AND it was Trunks not Bulma who got hurt, you never mess with a man's woman.

[KaiserNeko]

Vegeta admitted that Goku was better than him, but that doesn't mean that he will stop trying to surpass him. Before that, Vegeta was saying all the time that he was better or that he should be better because he was a super elite, while Goku was a low-class warrior. Now, Vegeta acknowledged Goku's strength, but that doesn't mean they stopped being rivals.

Also, Vegeta was most likely a Super Saiyan 2.

If Vegeta was just admitting that Goku was more powerful just at that point in time, it makes the scene MEANINGLESS, because Vegeta had known Goku surpassed him a bunch of times before. He was instead acknowledging that there's a fundamental difference in them, that Goku will always be ahead.

He ADMITTED that Son Goku is better than him. He never admitted he'd stop trying to train to be stronger, just that he could accept that Goku might always, in fact, be stronger... and that's okay.

Did it make him stronger than SSJ2 Gohan? NOPE.

Nah but Vegeta's base was weaker AND it was Trunks not Bulma who got hurt, you never mess with a man's woman.

Not to mention, this was Cell Saga Vegeta. You can only expect him to care so much.

[dbzfan7]

The degree that lol boost increased Vegeta's strength was ridiculous. I can agree that anger can make him stronger. But over a 4x boost is silly.

[Kakarot88]

Upon reflection, I do suppose Gohan is one of the only characters to exhibit a rage boost in the series.

However? I still stand by what I said! Vegeta exhausting all his power as SSJ2 in that one barrage was more powerful than simple, calculated attacks by SSJ3 Goku. I can buy that.

Goku has gotten rage boosts too all the saiyans have it's called "Super Saiyan" lol

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If Vegeta was just admitting that Goku was more powerful just at that point in time, it makes the scene MEANINGLESS, because Vegeta had known Goku surpassed him a bunch of times before. He was instead acknowledging that there's a fundamental difference in them, that Goku will always be ahead.

Like I said:

Before that, Vegeta was saying all the time that he was better or that he should be better because he was a super elite, while Goku was a low-class warrior. Now, Vegeta acknowledged Goku's strength, but that doesn't mean they stopped being rivals.

It's not meaningless at all.