"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[batistabus]

Wait, so Future Shin knew the dance ritual without Elder Kaioshin ever being there to tell him? Did Present Kaioshin know and was being secretive about it the entire time for some fucking reason? So does Trunks have Ultimate form? Confusion.

The dance ritual that Shin is talking about is different from the Elder Kaioshin's ritual. It is a clear throwback in the sense that it involves a weird dance, but Trunks does not have an awakened formed (as shown by the fact that he has always been able to become a Super Saiyan). Elder Kaioshin unlocking Gohan's potential was possible because of his witch half, but he combined it with this other Kaioshin ritual (according to this retcon).

[mfwlegend3]

Wait, so Future Shin knew the dance ritual without Elder Kaioshin ever being there to tell him? Did Present Kaioshin know and was being secretive about it the entire time for some fucking reason? So does Trunks have Ultimate form? Confusion.

The dance ritual that Shin is talking about is different from the Elder Kaioshin's ritual. It is a clear throwback in the sense that it involves a weird dance, but Trunks does not have an awakened formed (as shown by the fact that he has always been able to become a Super Saiyan). Elder Kaioshin unlocking Gohan's potential was possible because of his witch half, but he combined it with this other Kaioshin ritual (according to this retcon).

Ah right. I had forgotten about the witch and her beneficial abilities that came from her fusion.

[Boo Machine]

So now the fight is just to wait out the fusion, right? I can't wait for that to happen. Because even if they survive the fusion, they still have Black and Zamasu to deal with.

[OLKv3]

So now the fight is just to wait out the fusion, right? I can't wait for that to happen. Because even if they survive the fusion, they still have Black and Zamasu to deal with.

Yeah, looks like a hopeless situation either way. Goku's running out of energy fast, Vegeta is out of the fight and hurt, Trunks used all his strength to heal Goku. Zamasu is immortal. The button is the only solution.

[batistabus]

So now the fight is just to wait out the fusion, right? I can't wait for that to happen. Because even if they survive the fusion, they still have Black and Zamasu to deal with.

Yeah, looks like a hopeless situation either way. Goku's running out of energy fast, Vegeta is out of the fight and hurt, Trunks used all his strength to heal Goku. Zamasu is immortal. The button is the only solution.

I'm not entirely convinced that the fusion will actually wear off. Gowasu thinks that it will, but I think it's possible that Zamasu actually is considered a Kaioshin now (with Black as his Hakaishin counterpart). He didn't go through any sort of ritual, but some combination of his godly relics, god ki, and shinjin lineage might qualify him for legitimate godhood on a technicality. Just baseless speculation at this point, but the situation seems dire regardless.

[Boo Machine]

So now the fight is just to wait out the fusion, right? I can't wait for that to happen. Because even if they survive the fusion, they still have Black and Zamasu to deal with.

Yeah, looks like a hopeless situation either way. Goku's running out of energy fast, Vegeta is out of the fight and hurt, Trunks used all his strength to heal Goku. Zamasu is immortal. The button is the only solution.

If that is the case, then it should be interesting to see Zeno actually interact with Black and Zamasu. Even if it does seem kinda cheap to have Zeno just slap down the demolition duo with an reality erasing explosion. But I guess we will have to see. Although I can totally see Zeno's entrance being a cliff hanger for the next chapter and it doesn't end up concluding next month.

[Basako]

Yeah, I'm actively seeking out flaws, me, the guy who regularly praises the manga, just defended it against someone on this page, and praised it in the same breathe that I criticized it on. Yeah, that's real smart.
You're being ridiculous. Apparently any criticism of the manga makes me a blind hater.

Perhaps this was disproportionately aimed at you, but I hate how I come to this thread to talk about how excited I am about the new manga chapter, only to see people talking about how horrible it is.

I still completely disagree with your criticism, but I apologize.

You picked the wrong guy to tell that, but it would be accurate for others, it's the same every month.

I'm fine with Trunks healing power too, as you said, he found a way to introduce it organically in this moment with the conversations of the Kaioshins. It also adds some meaningfull information in universe. Id say that humans can be apprentices or attendants to Kaioshins, maybe Kaioshins too. I also think maybe Kibito could be an apprentice as Zamasu was, apart from attendant.

[batistabus]

Video interview with Toyotaro! Be sure to turn on closed captions for English subtitles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti89i2EZjWE

[Miracles]

I'll wait...But Toriyama has surprised some folks.

lol.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Video interview with Toyotaro! Be sure to turn on closed captions for English subtitles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti89i2EZjWE

So he admits his personality aka fan boy nature gets in the way yeah that was pretty obvious. Plus he admits he purposely deviates away and hope fans don't reject his stuff, again obvious but glad he admitted it.

[Basako]

Video interview with Toyotaro! Be sure to turn on closed captions for English subtitles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti89i2EZjWE

So he admits his personality aka fan boy nature gets in the way yeah that was pretty obvious. Plus he admits he purposely deviates away and hope fans don't reject his stuff, again obvious but glad he admitted it.

Did anybody doubt Toyotaro is a fan? Man, I wonder if you think somebody that wasn't could be better to write the official manga sequel.

Toyotaro had said before that he doesn't deviate from the main plot, now he just says him and the anime follow Toriyama's outline quite independently, which puts them in the exact same place. The draft has zero dialog, it's the job for the writers in both mediums to put all that in images and dialogs.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Of course a non fan could write the Manga, probably much better too (provided they've done their research) because they'll be able to be objective, something which Toyo's one clearly lacks.

[Basako]

So now the fight is just to wait out the fusion, right? I can't wait for that to happen. Because even if they survive the fusion, they still have Black and Zamasu to deal with.

Yeah, I think this is next, the defusion. This reminds me to the Boo arc, the last fight wasn't against the strongest and the remaining Z fighters were in their limit. If MZ defuses, they are still in a very bad situation, the three saiyans are injured or exhausted and nobody can cure them. This is totally DB Z, I like it.

[emperior]

Video interview with Toyotaro! Be sure to turn on closed captions for English subtitles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti89i2EZjWE

Toyotaro confirms, once again, that Toriyama gives him and Toei a very rough outline. Always sad to hear it, I always wonder how Super would be if Toriyama wrote a much more detailed story filled with dialogues and detailed battles.
Basically Super is the fan-fiction of Toei/Toyotaro based on some lines written down by Toriyama.

[Basako]

Of course a non fan could write the Manga, probably much better too (provided they've done their research) because they'll be able to be objective, something which Toyo's one clearly lacks.

No way, a non fan would have to go through all the story before writing and drawing it and wouldn't have the same passion. Toyotaro subjectively loves Toriyama's manga, that's not a flaw, even more, it's indispensable for this job. You are wrong on this.

And how would a non fan go through all the work required to mimic Toriyama's style so faithfully. It's a work of years. It's him or its Young Jiji and maybe a few more.

This is a job for a fan, which doesn't mean is not a professional now. He is, DB Super manga is not fanfiction, first because Toriyama writes it, second because he is there with Toriyama's approval, third because he supervises all his storyboards and fourth because it's the official Manga sequel in Shueisha, he is not doing it on his own. Even more, he is already creating designs with Tori for the story. Maybe you think all the gods he has designed aren't 'canon'.

[alakazam^]

Gowasu saying only Kaioushins can use the rings contradicts the notion that Zamasu isn't one, doesn't it?

[Ki Breaker]

Video interview with Toyotaro! Be sure to turn on closed captions for English subtitles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti89i2EZjWE

This was pretty interesting, I can feel for his lack of sleep due to work pressure, I too am enduring this for years now, dude has it rough but still enjoys his work, that's some good motivation right there

Apart from that another interesting thing was him saying whatever values we found In Dragonball aren't meant to be there and it's just our perception, that's just proves why many people view Dragonball so differently even though it's the same content

[Abra kadabra]

Jesus healing Trunks is SUCH a lame DEM, even with the foreshadowing, I still think it's just as bad as Genki Dama Sword Trunks. "I was a student, so I MUST have the healing power! Oh wait, I do! Let me suddenly use it perfectly now!"

I do like the Mastered SSB though

This kind of hypocrisy is lame. Fanboys are gonna fanboy tho

[Abra kadabra]

If Goku had this "mastered" all along, the only take away is that he's a piece of shit who could have ended the fight straight away. But I doubt it was planned. Got to make Goku look strong dammit

[emperior]

Toyotaro is a Goku fanboy.

It makes no sense Goku and Vegeta couldn't master Blue when they trained for 3 years in the ROSAT. Those 3 years of training they did amount to exactly nothing in the manga.
The fact Goku and Vegeta also have to master SSB in the manga contradicts RoF (which was completely written by Toriyama) where it's only Freezer's Golden form which suffers from massive stamina drain and not Blue (which was exactly like it's in the anime).
Toriyama also explained, in the movie, Blue as being "A Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God" so it's not a completely new form as the manga makes it out, it should only have Super Saiyan's drawbacks. In the manga it feels more like a Super Saiyan 4, it's also massively stronger than SSG or else Goku and Vegeta would just stick to SSG.
Toyotaro has some good ideas but the bad ones overshadow the good ones. This time should have just brought Kaio-Ken to justify Goku being able to fight on par with Merged Zamasu. Now that would have been epic and a better occasion to bring Kaio-Ken (it would make more sense for Goku to bring it back in such a situation rather than bringing it back in a tournament like he did in the anime)

By the way is that a plot-hole the fact Black was able to use the time-ring? Gowasu says only a Kaioshin can use it, so unless Black was a Kaioshin (which he shouldn't be considering he's the same Zamasu from the main timeline which was only an apprentice) it makes no sense.