Unpopular DB opinions

[WittyUsername]

Goku being played by an Asian actor makes a lot more sense than him being played by a white actor. If there ever is another Hollywood adaptation of Dragon Ball, there would be no reason not to have Goku be Asian. Him being an alien is a weak counterargument, especially when that wasn’t even established until about four years into the manga’s run.

[MasenkoHA]

Goku being played by an Asian actor makes a lot more sense than him being played by a white actor. If there ever is another Hollywood adaptation of Dragon Ball, there would be no reason not to have Goku be Asian. Him being an alien is a weak counterargument, especially when that wasn’t even established until about four years into the manga’s run.

Agreed.

"He's an alien" only works if said alien character doesn't look human or has a non standard skin color.

It doesn't matter if Piccolo is played by an Asian man or a white man or a black man, he's a green alien.

Same with Starfire from Teen Titans. No one has orange skin except Donald Trump and Snooki from Jersey Shore so color blind casting is acceptable.

[ABED]

Master Mutato being a minor character should not factor into it. If he is white skinned in the cartoon then he should be cast as a white skinned guy (I'm not sure if Mutato is supposed to be Asian or Caucasian) in the live action version. (It should not be a requirement but a heavy consideration) While I agree that live action Son Goku should be cast as Chinese man who acts well it should not be a requirement but rather a consideration.

Hollywood has white people so it makes sense that some white people would get movie roles. If you go to Japan then Japanese folks get the role because that is what is there. Your post comes off more as "angry at the white man" and that is disturbing. Hollywood has plenty of non white actors in prominent roles.


Anyway I'm moving on from this.

Back on topic. For me Steph N. Is THE voice of English Son Goku and Son Gohan. She hits that vocal range and brings that emotion to the role. Although the voice actress who plays the roles now is fine.

Nadolny's voice is nails on a chalkboard to me. No character she has voiced has ever done much for me, and even if the dialog during Gohan's SSJ2 transformation weren't awful, she'd still ruin the moment.

[MasenkoHA]

Master Mutato being a minor character should not factor into it. If he is white skinned in the cartoon then he should be cast as a white skinned guy (I'm not sure if Mutato is supposed to be Asian or Caucasian) in the live action version. (It should not be a requirement but a heavy consideration) While I agree that live action Son Goku should be cast as Chinese man who acts well it should not be a requirement but rather a consideration.

Hollywood has white people so it makes sense that some white people would get movie roles. If you go to Japan then Japanese folks get the role because that is what is there. Your post comes off more as "angry at the white man" and that is disturbing. Hollywood has plenty of non white actors in prominent roles.


Anyway I'm moving on from this.

Back on topic. For me Steph N. Is THE voice of English Son Goku and Son Gohan. She hits that vocal range and brings that emotion to the role. Although the voice actress who plays the roles now is fine.

Nadolny's voice is nails on a chalkboard to me. No character she has voiced has ever done much for me, and even if the dialog during Gohan's SSJ2 transformation weren't awful, she'd still ruin the moment.

Even setting aside her voice, her acting is pretty goddamn bad. Part of it is probably bad direction but I think a lot of it is just a lack of talent.

I do recall her being especially bad during the Cell Games portion, probably because she had to keep maintaining that stupid "Clint Eastwood" voice


To not be completely negative, I will say she does a pretty decent job at playing Goku the naive simpleton

[Scsigs]

When it comes to Nadolny, I can see why people hate her as Gohan, but I don't agree that she was completely terrible. I think she was an ok voice for Gohan, but I do agree that the voice she used for him was a bit harsh. I also don't understand when some of the members of TFS say she sounds like Bobby Hill. I don't detect any hints of a Southern accent in her voice for Gohan or Goku personally & certainly not Bobby Hill-level if it IS there. She sounds like she was trying to do something similar to what Tara Strong did for Ben 10, only it doesn't quite fit for Gohan. I do think it had to do mainly with the voice direction of the original Z dub. We also have to remember that she was mainly cast because she did a voice that was close enough to the Canadian actress' voice for him & she was instructed to do that voice during the recording sessions sessions. I've listened to many clips of the Z dub & the whole Buu Saga & the voice direction is...extremely poor most of the time. Sometimes you'll get ok voice acting, but due to a mix of the poor voice direction & the cast being newbies, a lot of it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Even for the lines that aren't necessarily bad, or were even decently translated, the voice acting lets them down. I've seen clips of the continued Ocean dub that used largely the same scripts that are just so much better to listen to, even with the bad translations & scripting choices because the cast was more experienced & the voice direction seemed to be better, or at least more consistent.
The scene where 16 dies completely kills me every time with how bad it is. Mainly with the additional inner monologue they gave Gohan. As if the lack of one in the original Japanese version didn't allow you to feel something & the kid audience was too stupid to have the right emotional reaction to what was going on. Nadolny isn't to blame for it, but it's still worth mentioning.
She's definitely a better fit for kid Goku.

I'll say that at this point, I prefer Clinkenbeard's take on Gohan. The more quiet & reserved portrayal is better for kid Gohan. I don't like that it's basically a younger, less stuffed up version of her Luffy voice, but it's different enough that I can get passed it. Now, I don't like her playing kid Goku. Why? She uses the same exact voice for him that she used to use for Luffy before she deepened it after the timeskip for some reason that I hate (which still sticks around for newer material they dub that takes place BEFORE the timeskip for some reason). The voice completely takes me out of the moment in the games when I see kid Goku & I hear Monkey D. Luffy. I know that the Toei writers have a bad habit of writing Goku like he's Luffy because for some reason they think they're the same person, but that's NOT the feeling I should be getting from Goku in the dub. I get that it's just easier to get Clinkenbeard to do the voice acting, but it's not like Nadolny didn't make a distinction between them back when she played them.
Neither is best for both characters, sadly. Nadolny was better as kid Goku while Clinkenbeard's a better kid Gohan. If only they could find someone who could do both well.

I'll say, though, Nadolny's biggest saving grace is her screaming ability. Just like Sean Schemmel, I think she has some of the most powerful screams out of anyone in the main English dub cast, both past & present. She did extremely well with the SS2 scream & the one in Bojack where Gohan fired a Kamehameha at him, as well as the video games. Clinkenbeard's screams aren't half bad either, but Nadolny's to me have so much more power to them to me.

[MasenkoHA]

Now, I don't like her playing kid Goku. Why? She uses the same exact voice for him that she used to use for Luffy

I don't get this argument at all. Voice actors recycle voices all the time. Who cares if her Luffy and Goku voice sound the same? They don't interact on screen together. She's not obligated to come up with a completely different voice everytime she voices a new character. Tara Strong, for exampe, basically has one boy voice that she uses for nearly every male character around the age of 8-12.

but it's not like Nadolny didn't make a distinction between them back when she played them.

She made a distinction at first but after she started voicing Gohan again after having voiced Goku (i.e pretty much all the movies sans Lord Slug, the Saiyan and Namek saga in-house redub, and the partial redub for the Orange Bricks before Funi got lazy) she uses literally the exact same voice for Gohan that she had been using for Goku https://youtu.be/4gk0R9sSf0M?si=bgOUw8T2KfpoxaXr and that's a-okay since her Goku voice is much better than her "smokes 20 packs a day since he was 3 years old" Gohan voice. Didn't change the fact that she can't act, but at least the voice itself was less grating.

[Scsigs]

Now, I don't like her playing kid Goku. Why? She uses the same exact voice for him that she used to use for Luffy

I don't get this argument at all. Voice actors recycle voices all the time. Who cares if her Luffy and Goku voice sound the same? They don't interact on screen together. She's not obligated to come up with a completely different voice every time she voices a new character. Tara Strong, for example, basically has one boy voice that she uses for nearly every male character around the age of 8-12.

My particular problem is that I have a love/hate relationship with her Luffy voice. I don't think she's a bad cast (though I've heard that they wanted to cast a male ass Luffy, but Toei wouldn't let them), but the way she plays him more emphasizes Luffy being stupid rather than just high energy ADHD-brained, naive, & hopeful like Mayumi Tanaka plays him. But, I think the voice tone is fine in of itself for Luffy, I just would change how she approaches the voice, but we're almost 20 years removed from when FUNi's dub started recording, so it's a bit late for that. Point is, when she uses it for Goku as well, I have a hard time not getting distracted by it.
Tara, I would say, has more vocal range than Clinkenbeard. Yes, she has only 1 real voice tone, but the way she plays characters with it changes depending on what's needed. I can watch Ben 10 & not hear Timmy Turner. Timmy & Ben are both 10 years old, but I wouldn't say they have the same voice tone. Timmy's more high-pitched than Ben, probably owing to the fact that Ben exists in a world that's more reality-based than Timmy, whose world is definitely a cartoon world. Hell, even within the Ben 10 franchise, Tara's played multiple 10-year-old Bens & tried to differentiate them in her performances. Ben 23, she (at first at least) had a quirk to his voice where it keeps cracking at times because he's 13 & going through puberty. Ben in the reboot apparently also has a slightly higher-pitched voice compared to classic Ben. From what I've heard, Clinkenbearrd doesn't have a lot of ways she usually makes her "boy" voice.
And if I can compare her too another VA in anime, Yuri Lowenthal. He has a good range even if he tends too use the same few voice tones over & over again. I don't think Sasuke sounds like Ben Tennyson, or his Peter Parker. Hell, his voices are just variations on his normal speaking voice too. Although, it DOES get distracting at times. Like, because he has only a few variations of his voice he primarily uses when voice acting, it CAN get distracting. Like, the voice he uses for Johnny in the English dub of FFVII Remake isn't much different from the voice he used for whoever his character was in Bleach. Mainly, it's probably his performance being "high energy, zany, weird guy" that I don't think he does very well. It's a lot like Sean Schemmel when he tries to do the high-pitched comedic bits as Goku.

[GurixDr34]

I do not like Super version of Vegeta
Gohan is overrated
Buu was a weak Villain but better than Super Villains
GT Baby saga is underrated
Original Bardock and Broly were much better

[Noah]

I love Kikuchi score, but I feel like his score in the anime could use some more variety. There are tons of overused tracks.

Late reply but the original DB was fantastic because it followed the right convention of actually making theme suites around in-show characters.
Z unquestionably lost its way when Toei began spamming (mostly) formulaic rehash movies twice a year (to say nothing of the Hit Song Collections) and then directing all score composition towards that (where it worked much better than in the series). Had the effect of, again, rehashes of moments in the series getting scores that could have been done better had they been done for the characters and moments they were originally based on.

I made a thread on how his movie work in Z was genius, but the fact is it was no longer being focused on the series itself. The only TV material was made at the beginning of a new OP/ED set's debut and nothing beyond that it seems.

My thoughts exactly. In DB, despite using the movie music as usual, there were also several soundtracks composed for the series itself. But in DBZ? I only remember the initial Saiyan arc episodes having original tracks, a few episodes later are just movie scores and I find it kinda crazy to think that neither the Freeza nor the Cell arcs had many original tracks, the Boo arc did, and I thought that was great and I wonder what could be if the series didn't rely so much on the movie scores.

[PowerPhantom245]

I like Goku better with blue than orange.
I know that orange is color for Goku's Gi, which has been staple for the franchise, but I personally think blue looks better for him.
I'm not saying I HATE orange nor his Gi; I still like the design and color.
As I grew older, I sometime can't help but feeling what would have been like if he stuck with blue outfit for rest of franchise.
Then again, once Vegeta showed up, who wore blue for most of the series, it would be weird to see blue outfit fights each other, so I guess having brighter color like orange and darker color of blue clashing together, make better images.
I like that it was brought back at end of manga/Z, where he wore blue that resembles earlier part of franchise.
It was also nice that Goku wore blue outfit for entire run of GT, even though I didn't like yellow pants design.

On an interesting note, I really like what they did for Goku outfit for Dragonball Evolution.
Despite its issue, I really like the design of the Gi, where top was orange and bottom was blue, essentially a combination of the two, which was good match.
I kind of wish we got to see that in manga and anime form.

[Noah]

I like Goku better with blue than orange.

I agree, I know orange is his more iconic style, but blue looks cool on him. I would love a series with Goku using his EoZ e.g

[sunsetshimmer]

That's a late reply, but i hardly ever visit this site nowadays

I do not like Super version of Vegeta
Gohan is overrated
Buu was a weak Villain but better than Super Villains
GT Baby saga is underrated
Original Bardock and Broly were much better

-I have mixed feelings about DBS Vegeta. In some cases he feels like a good character development. In others, he feels like a parody. Running around in armor all the time doesn't help.

-I wouldn't say Gohan is overrated. I'd say he's misunderstood. Cause i assume what you refer as overrated is Gohan SSJ2 from Cell games etc. People assume that was "real Gohan". No, he wasn't. I hate that version. Fake Gohan is overrated. Real Gohan isn't.

-I think Buu was fun villain. Interesting. He had no personality but it's not like every villain needs it. My biggest problem with him or his saga in general is how random it feels. Maybe if supreme kais were introduced earlier it would make more sense. But we just randomly meet some even higher gods and hear about some demon being ressurected. It doesn't feel like story is connected to DB lore in any way and as a final arc of main DB story it just disappoints.

-GT was underrated. But if there is something that is universally considered at least decent then it's Baby arc. Still underrated for sure, but i'd say Black Star saga is way more underrated. It gets far worse reception than it deserves. (let's not forget episodes with Rildo are part of first arc, not Baby arc like Funimation claimed it to be)

-Agreed 100%. I find it funny how so many people claim that "new Broly is something more than a screaming savage" when in reality it's opposite if we look at FIRST movie where Broly after transforming is actually pretty calm and talks a lot. New Broly doesn't scream "Kakarotto" all the times. He just screams.

[MasenkoHA]

I like Goku better with blue than orange.

I would love a series with Goku using his EoZ e.g

[Cure Dragon 255]

I like Goku better with blue than orange.

I would love a series with Goku using his EoZ e.g

Is it just me or did they Toonzai'd his eye? Its really weird. It looks like shit.

[nickzambuto]

Goku is a hero. Just because he enjoys the fighting does not diminish his moral compass.

Goku will help a complete stranger and dedicate his whole day to them if they ask. He is also willing to stand still and take a beating if someone is being held hostage. So preserving life means even more to him than winning the fight. He will lose the fight if it means saving someone AKA he is selfless.

[FortuneSSJ]

I like Goku better with blue than orange.

Me too. And I also like the red version of his gi that DB anime used more than the orange version.

[AliTheZombie13]

-GT was underrated. But if there is something that is universally considered at least decent then it's Baby arc. Still underrated for sure, but i'd say Black Star saga is way more underrated. It gets far worse reception than it deserves. (let's not forget episodes with Rildo are part of first arc, not Baby arc like Funimation claimed it to be)

Eyup. The Black Star saga was actually enjoyable and I will forever die on this hill, reminds me a lot of Digimon Adventure and Sailor Moon. I don't understand how someone can go "But it's too childish and unserious for Dragon Ball" when things like the Dr. Slump crossovers and the Ginyu Force exist. Super #17 and the Evil Dragons are the actual "WTF is this writing?!" arcs of GT.

[Koitsukai]

I'll go out on a limb here and say the Black Star Saga is my favourite arc of GT.
It suffers from never-ending big boss' revelations that becomes dull soon enough, sure, but it has mystery, adventure, fights and non-repetitive scenarios, which is great because DB has always been so keen on spending 20 episodes on a wasteland.
We don't get to see all of the cast, but the three we get don't ever make you miss the others.

Constant change of scenery, constant change of adventure (they fight big worms, then they fight a robot, then a machine mutant, then Goku is a dentist, etc).

There are more bad things I can say about the other arcs, even from other series, than about the BS saga. It's the only arc that does not rely on SS4 for me to enjoy it.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I don't understand how someone can go "But it's too childish and unserious for Dragon Ball" when things like the Dr. Slump crossovers and the Ginyu Force exist. Super #17 and the Evil Dragons are the actual "WTF is this writing?!" arcs of GT.

It didn't help that a lot of fans in English-speaking territories were introduced to the series with Dragon Ball Z. Starting from Raditz instead of Pilaf gives people unrealistic expectations (which I was guilty of having at one point) of seeing more of what they loved in Dragon Ball Z and less of the slapstick humour in original Dragon Ball.

I suspect a lot of the same fans hate the Boo arc because it was bringing Dragon Ball back to its comedic roots, and GT's writers took the same approach to an even greater extent by also returning to the adventurous aspects of the original series or indeed the early manga volumes. Unsurprisingly a lot of GT's detractors defend the Baby and Evil Dragons arc as they felt more like Dragon Ball Z arcs with major boss villains and the fate of the world at stake (although arguably the Piccolo arc is also more in line with the Saiyan, Freeza and Cell arcs in that respect). The Dr Slump crossovers are likely made with the same mindset as the Boo and Black Star Dragon Ball arcs.

Wacky, absurd humour is Toriyama's bread and butter, its his charm and what initially made Dragon Ball a beloved property in its native Japan and many other countries. I understand it doesn't appeal to everyone, I'm not fond of all of it (my least favourite Dragon Ball character is Bacterian) but if Toriyama didn't write any of that stuff many fans wouldn't have got the more serious aspects of Dragon Ball they loved that came later on.

[JulieYBM]

I can't stand all the creepy shit with Pan and the transmisogynistic shit with Trunks-in-a-dress, so I really don't like the beginning of Dragon Ball GT. I think there's some solid ideas in the other multi-parters, but I really do find that the series doesn't really take their premises anywhere. It's like the series is at war with itself to be both Toriyama-esque empty and also expand on deeper ideas.