Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ShinTenshin]

So Roshi full power is strong and capable enough to seriously injure possibly kill tien..
That's a pretty good jump from even rof

Don't give filler too much importance.... That's like saying Krilin and Yamcha are as strong as Paikuhan or Popo is far stronger than Trunks SSJ. Take only Toriyama's work/script for canon ! We need to wait for Toyotaro's version to know if all this is official !

And Tenshinhan hasn't used Kikoho so.....

[Ki Breaker]

So Roshi full power is strong and capable enough to seriously injure possibly kill tien..
That's a pretty good jump from even rof

Don't give filler too much importance.... That's like saying Krilin and Yamcha are as strong as Paikuhan or Popo is far stronger than Trunks SSJ. Take only Toriyama's work/script for canon l.

There is no filler in super, super anime is the full continuation and is the official canon, we cannot pretend copy Vegeta never happened neither that tien didn't get his ass kicked..
Tien didn't use kiokho because roshi didn't let him, he was beaten hands down..

[namekiansaiyan]

We will see the real Tien next episode and in the tournament. He will almost certainly do good in the tag battle next episode.

I still think that Roshi's Thunder Shock Surprise attack played a big role in the fight. That attack was described as lethal and Roshi didn't even want to use it against Goku back in the 21st TB. Goku only escaped it because of the Oozaru transformation. All those years of training could have amplified the attack to great heights.

The attack maybe had an effect on what happened but this episode was disgraceful towards Tien. Tien should have been the one to stop Roshi.

Also why does Roshi get a power up but not Tien?

[ShinTenshin]

So Roshi full power is strong and capable enough to seriously injure possibly kill tien..
That's a pretty good jump from even rof

Don't give filler too much importance.... That's like saying Krilin and Yamcha are as strong as Paikuhan or Popo is far stronger than Trunks SSJ. Take only Toriyama's work/script for canon l.

There is no filler in super, super anime is the full continuation and is the official canon, we cannot pretend copy Vegeta never happened neither that tien didn't get his ass kicked..
Tien didn't use kiokho because roshi didn't let him, he was beaten hands down..

Like EVERY animé WE have fillers. Copy Vegeta arc has nothing to do with Toriyama script ! Toriyama is the canon, his work is the canon !! Toei adapt it for TV, Toyotaro for Manga. If Tenshinhan dojo with Yurin isn't from Toriyama, that's as relevant as DBGT.
If you follow the true Toriyama canon with the Manga original, only Toyotaro work is the way to go.
It's the DBSUPER that Toriyama love and WE have to trust him.

[emperior]

Tenshinan probably expected to easily handle Roshi and was caught by surprise. It's not like he got his ass handed to him, he was just knocked to the ground.
Roshi also seemed to imply in the RoF arc that watching good fighters fight is useful to improve, which is perfectly reasonable to me. Just by watching Goku vs Golden Freezer and the Champa tournament the earthlings probably improved, or at least were able to make better gains by training. It has always been like this in Dragon Ball considering everyone surpassed Raditz in a year while Goku and Piccolo who spent 5 years training after 23rd BT were vastly inferior to Raditz.

[Ki Breaker]

Don't give filler too much importance.... That's like saying Krilin and Yamcha are as strong as Paikuhan or Popo is far stronger than Trunks SSJ. Take only Toriyama's work/script for canon l.

There is no filler in super, super anime is the full continuation and is the official canon, we cannot pretend copy Vegeta never happened neither that tien didn't get his ass kicked..
Tien didn't use kiokho because roshi didn't let him, he was beaten hands down..

Like EVERY animé WE have fillers. Copy Vegeta arc has nothing to do with Toriyama script ! Toriyama is the canon, his work is the canon !! Toei adapt it for TV, Toyotaro for Manga. If Tenshinhan dojo with Yurin isn't from Toriyama, that's as relevant as DBGT.
If you follow the true Toriyama canon with the Manga original, only Toyotaro work is the way to go.
It's the DBSUPER that Toriyama love and WE have to trust him.

Buddy, that was in z and DB, Super anime is the official canon, Toriyama only provides bare ones outline, its not even the story, if that's what you consider canon , first you would be wrong second the only thing that would be canon will be plot points, not even fights..

You can choose what you want to believe, but remember, someone believing the earth is flat dosen't make it so, take you pick

[ShinTenshin]

There is no filler in super, super anime is the full continuation and is the official canon, we cannot pretend copy Vegeta never happened neither that tien didn't get his ass kicked..
Tien didn't use kiokho because roshi didn't let him, he was beaten hands down..

Like EVERY animé WE have fillers. Copy Vegeta arc has nothing to do with Toriyama script ! Toriyama is the canon, his work is the canon !! Toei adapt it for TV, Toyotaro for Manga. If Tenshinhan dojo with Yurin isn't from Toriyama, that's as relevant as DBGT.
If you follow the true Toriyama canon with the Manga original, only Toyotaro work is the way to go.
It's the DBSUPER that Toriyama love and WE have to trust him.

Buddy, that was in z and DB, Super anime is the official canon, Toriyama only provides bare ones outline, its not even the story, if that's what you consider canon , first you would be wrong second the only thing that would be canon will be plot points, not even fights..

You can choose what you want to believe, but remember, someone believing the earth is flat dosen't make it so, take you pick

If you want, DBSUPER of Toei is the continuity of DBZ (Gregory, Garlic, Popo Vs Kids SSJ, Goku SSJ vs Gohan Mystic etc...).
DBSUPER Manga is the continuity of the Toriyama's Manga.

[Basako]

Buddy, that was in z and DB, Super anime is the official canon, Toriyama only provides bare ones outline, its not even the story, if that's what you consider canon , first you would be wrong second the only thing that would be canon will be plot points, not even fights..

You can choose what you want to believe, but remember, someone believing the earth is flat dosen't make it so, take you pick

Aren't you choosing what you want to believe too? I feel you as the one saying the Earth is flat. Your statement is wrong, there is no official canon, so Super anime is not the official canon.

Saying some content is filler in this context can be understood as content added to the drafts provided by Toriyama. We know Toei expands, there is nothing wrong with that per se. I think those episodes are filler in that sense too. Being good or bad is another thing and matter of opinion.

Sorry for the off topic, just this comment, promise.

[OLKv3]

Going by this episode, Krillin is still the strongest earthling. Krillin was able to keep up with Base Goku and force him into SSJ. Base Goku handled Roshi with ease, the same Roshi who easily beat down Tien

My boy Kril styling on those earthling clowns

I wouldn't call Goku having to use one of his one of his most powerful techniques winning with "ease".

He didn't use it at full power. He played around, then said "I'm having fun but I gotta end it"

Then he jumped up and used enough to knock him down. He didn't struggle in the slightest. He didn't even transform or power up much

[Ki Breaker]

I will say it one last time, the anime events can't be ignored and considered filler, the anime is the full continuation..

canon argument is pretty up in the air due to various people liking various things that it's ignored there is an obvious unspoken canon which the writers follow..

I am done with the canon conversation

[TheMikado]

Like EVERY animé WE have fillers. Copy Vegeta arc has nothing to do with Toriyama script ! Toriyama is the canon, his work is the canon !! Toei adapt it for TV, Toyotaro for Manga. If Tenshinhan dojo with Yurin isn't from Toriyama, that's as relevant as DBGT.
If you follow the true Toriyama canon with the Manga original, only Toyotaro work is the way to go.
It's the DBSUPER that Toriyama love and WE have to trust him.

Buddy, that was in z and DB, Super anime is the official canon, Toriyama only provides bare ones outline, its not even the story, if that's what you consider canon , first you would be wrong second the only thing that would be canon will be plot points, not even fights..

You can choose what you want to believe, but remember, someone believing the earth is flat dosen't make it so, take you pick

If you want, DBSUPER of Toei is the continuity of DBZ (Gregory, Garlic, Popo Vs Kids SSJ, Goku SSJ vs Gohan Mystic etc...).
DBSUPER Manga is the continuity of the Toriyama's Manga.

Umm I love the manga but that's not how it works, they are both based off of the outline but the anime is the main product. And this is fair worse than GT as we have no idea what is Toriyamas and what's Toei, plus to make matters worse we have the movie and manga interpretations, plus retcons, incredibly power writing/power scaling, a rabbid and often uninformed fan base which has created incredibly confusion on how strong the protagonist are supposed to be in an anime themed around power. This has all been very messy and I understand your confusion but you have to take everything in Super at face value like it or not, it's Toei product, not Toriyamas.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So, Roshi's been training in secret, powering up to the point that one of his most powerful techniques, the Thunder Shock Surprise. He used it against Goku back in the original Dragon Ball, and only because Goku was strong enough that it wouldn't be lethal.

Tenshinhan was floored, but he wasn't totally demolished like people seem to make it out to be.

Roshi is at the very least approaching Tenshinhan's level, which is a surprise, but a pleasant one for me.

The NEP is interesting, seeing SS(2) Goku fight against Ultimate Gohan. It'll certainly be interesting to see how that plays out.

[TheMikado]

So, Roshi's been training in secret, powering up to the point that one of his most powerful techniques, the Thunder Shock Surprise. He used it against Goku back in the original Dragon Ball, and only because Goku was strong enough that it wouldn't be lethal.

Tenshinhan was floored, but he wasn't totally demolished like people seem to make it out to be.

Roshi is at the very least approaching Tenshinhan's level, which is a surprise, but a pleasant one for me.

The NEP is interesting, seeing SS(2) Goku fight against Ultimate Gohan. It'll certainly be interesting to see how that plays out.

The problem is Roshis last official power level was 139. He's been one of the strongest martial artists for decades at that point and was pretty much retired. He hasn't had any special training or masters since nor RoSaT or anything. But some how his secret training as a retired old man who Krillin and 18 live with went unnoticed. And he's got to be in the 100,000s if not millions against Tien from a lowly 139 power level which was the best he could achieve in his entire lifetime as a martial artist.

Sigh

[ShinTenshin]

I will say it one last time, the anime events can't be ignored and considered filler, the anime is the full continuation..

canon argument is pretty up in the air due to various people liking various things that it's ignored there is an obvious unspoken canon which the writers follow..

I am done with the canon conversation

About TOYOTARO :


Did you ever think you'd be working for Shueisha on the OFFICIAL sequel to Dragon Ball? Was that ever the goal? 

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/intervi ... ou/.107579

Toriyama :

"I’m really grateful to you. I never thought an artist like you would come along to draw the CONTINUATION OF MY STORY"

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... k-version/

[MisteryOne]

I bet Roshi was secretly working in 17's island or he trained with Frieza before ROF , or with Piccolo after the Champa arc, or all together, and that way he archieved a higher power than Tien, who never stop training. Its the most logical reason. That or as Goku said he never used his full power. Roshi, you bitch!

Since her brother could sense Ki, I suppose Caulifla can too, but she wasn't afraid of SS Cabba. Interesting, is she U6's Gohan?

I will say it one last time, the anime events can't be ignored and considered filler, the anime is the full continuation..

canon argument is pretty up in the air due to various people liking various things that it's ignored there is an obvious unspoken canon which the writers follow..

I am done with the canon conversation

I seriously doubt the anime staff if following the original manga version when Gregory and other filler characters exist. And the original manga is the only thing that can't be considered canon. Definetly the most «canon» version of Super is the manga, trough any of rhe two is really canon if by «canon» you undestand «written by Toriyama» because in that case the canon stopped with ROF. If you are speaking about the anime continuity, then yes, there is not filler, but with canon people usually refer to the manga one.

[LowRyder2005]

I'm conflicted. With the talisman the still-unable-to-master-ki dojo fighters could fly, became apparently able to repel Chiaotzu's attack (someone who's at least in the low thousands), and Tien of all people also needed to exert some force to physically restrain them - which really wouldn't make much sense, since we'd be talking about DB-level Budokai fighters.

I had the striking impression that it gave them some kind of sizable power-up, which could have been magnified in the case of Roshi.
That being said, I agree it would seem odd for Goku to continually comment about how great Roshi's power was, though. Unless he could still deduce it? Thinking it's bound to become a debate.

[Basako]

The problem is Roshis last official power level was 139. He's been one of the strongest martial artists for decades at that point and was pretty much retired. He hasn't had any special training or masters since nor RoSaT or anything. But some how his secret training as a retired old man who Krillin and 18 live with went unnoticed. And he's got to be in the 100,000s if not millions against Tien from a lowly 139 power level which was the best he could achieve in his entire lifetime as a martial artist.

Sigh

In his defense I will say that 139 was relaxed, Roshi buffed should be stronger. He could also blow the moon, that's not anything. Even though, Roshi's power up will be difficult to justify, I hope they don't take it too far.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I'm conflicted. With the talisman the still-unable-to-master-ki dojo fighters could fly, became apparently able to repel Chiaotzu's attack (someone who's at least in the low thousands), and Tien of all people also needed to exert some force to physically restrain them - which really wouldn't make much sense, since we'd be talking about DB-level Budokai fighters.

I had the striking impression that it gave them some kind of sizable power-up, which could have been magnified in the case of Roshi.
That being said, I agree it would seem odd for Goku to continually comment about how great Roshi's power was, though. Unless he could still deduce it? Thinking it's bound to become a debate.

With Chiatzou, at least, it was stated in the episode that his telekinetic abilities didn't work on them, you know, things like restraining their bodies and whatnot.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

I'm reconciling everything rather feasibly with the story and the article.
You, on the other hand, keep adding unsubstantiated claims, arbitrarily mixing sources and indirectly contradicting the article's words as the end result anyway. Notwithstanding the problem with your attitude, I'm afraid you just aren't very convincing.

Nah, everything I said like Goku uses SSJ in BOG and needing to keep his ki from leaking in Super to invoke SSB are both shown.
Meanwhile you have to make things up like the power "cooking", while everything I claim is blatantly stated or shown.
You want to pretend that the article supports your point, completely disregarding BOG and the additional requirements to invoke SSB shown in Super that supplement the blurb, as well as Goku going SSJ all throughout Super. The article gives the very basic same explanation given in the movie and Super and despite that we come to the current events in the series. Reconciling every source together, not just cherrypicking them, leads to my conclusion.
Ridiculous post as usual coming from a joke poster. Nothing more to see here.

[ekrolo2]

So, if Goku only uses SS2 against Gohan, how much does that fuck with the two-base thing the magazine from F seemingly reinforced?