Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Pannaliciour]

What are you talking about? Elder Kai unlocked all of Gohan's powers so that in the Buu saga base/mystic Gohan was far stronger than base Goku or Vegeta.

He hasn't trained so Gohan has grown weaker in base form to the point that he's now only somewhat stronger than Piccolo but still obviously stronger than base Goku or Vegeta at the start of Super being that they're weaker than Freeza.

That's not a fan theory, it's what the show presented to us.

Really? How do you know that?

[Hugo Boss]

I'm also asking me the same question. I didn't see anyone in Dragon Ball Super implying Base Gohan is stronger than Base Goku, Base Vegeta or Freeza, at any point. The only thing that I saw was Bulma saying Gohan could easily defeat Freeza, but that naturally would include him going Super Saiyan, since Freeza now doesn't even need to transform to defeat a regular Super Saiyan.

[ZombieVito]

I'm also asking me the same question. I didn't see anyone in Dragon Ball Super implying Base Gohan is stronger than Base Goku, Base Vegeta or Freeza, at any point. The only thing that I saw was Bulma saying Gohan could easily defeat Freeza, but that naturally would include him going Super Saiyan, since Freeza now doesn't even need to transform to defeat a regular Super Saiyan.

You need to see episode 22. It's clear as day Gohan is stronger than Goku and Vegeta in base (Pre God stuff).

[Hugo Boss]

Can't you be more clear about that? Which scene in Episode #22 implies that? Or do you mean Super Saiyan Gohan is stronger than Base Goku and Base Vegeta? Until now, the only person that compares Gohan to Freeza is Bulma and she isn't clear about which form Gohan would use, so to defeat Freeza you could say he probably wouldn't need Super Saiyan anymore! Though, I think Gohan mentioning he can still go Super Saiyan counters that point.

[ZombieVito]

Gohan says Tagoma is on par with his base form and Tagoma decimated Piccolo.

[Hugo Boss]

And how that implies Base Gohan is stronger than Freeza was back in the day?! The only thing that it implies is Base Gohan being stronger than Piccolo. Piccolo himself is stronger than some mooks, stronger than Kuririn and fought evenly with Shisami in the movie. Nothing compares him or Gohan to Goku and Vegeta at all.

[Blackstripe]

And how that implies Base Gohan is stronger than Freeza was back in the day?! The only thing that it implies is Base Gohan being stronger than Piccolo. Piccolo himself is stronger than some mooks, stronger than Kuririn and fought evenly with Shisami in the movie. Nothing compares him or Gohan to Goku and Vegeta at all.

Wat.

Piccolo > 100% Freeza on Namek. This...isn't new information.

[Sandubadear]

And how that implies Base Gohan is stronger than Freeza was back in the day?! The only thing that it implies is Base Gohan being stronger than Piccolo. Piccolo himself is stronger than some mooks, stronger than Kuririn and fought evenly with Shisami in the movie. Nothing compares him or Gohan to Goku and Vegeta at all.

Wat.

Piccolo > 100% Freeza on Namek. This...isn't new information.

Super's power scaling does not connect at all to the other series. Ignore Z Freeza and Z Piccolo and think only about the characters in Super. All we have is Freeza > SSJ Gohan > Ginyu >= base Gohan > Piccolo.

[Hugo Boss]

Piccolo was stronger than Freeza in Cell Arc. In Dragon Ball Super he doesn't accomplish anything that puts him anywhere near that level. He is weaker than Tagoma, who is weaker than Aka, who is on par with Freeza. Remember that Aka was able to fight back Gotenks, while Tagoma was done in with one blow.

[Blackstripe]

Super's power scaling does not connect at all to the other series. Ignore Z Freeza and Z Piccolo and think only about the characters in Super. All we have is Freeza > SSJ Gohan > Ginyu >= base Gohan > Piccolo.

Oh, I see. You've decided nothing makes sense, and are trying to pass that off as an irrefutable fact.

See, that's not how it works, though. There's nothing to indicate that Piccolo's weaker than 100% Freeza on Namek in Super, and evidence in the previous series that clearly proves otherwise. So therefore, the burden of proof lays with you to prove that Piccolo is weaker than Freeza on Namek.

Just because Super doesn't follow a bunch of fan theories doesn't mean it's garbage. There's plenty of things to be upset about in that series, but I hate it when people take on such a conceited, self-important attitude about it.

Piccolo was stronger than Freeza in Cell Arc. In Dragon Ball Super he doesn't accomplish anything that puts him anywhere near that level. He is weaker than Tagoma, who is weaker than Aka, who is on par with Freeza. Remember that Aka was able to fight back Gotenks, while Tagoma was done in with one blow.

Oh, now I know you're just being bitter.

Aka got his ass kicked by BASE Gotenks, and you know it. None of his attacks, including his "Wahaha no ha" or whatever was too much for base Gotenks to handle. Yes, he got back up from a punch from Super Gotenks...but said punch wasn't to the balls, and Gotenks was obviously toying with him. Tagoma got a flying headbutt to the nuts. It was also pretty much a gag scene.

By the way, Piccolo easily deflected Aka's blast in that special.

[xmysticgohanx]

I'm also asking me the same question. I didn't see anyone in Dragon Ball Super implying Base Gohan is stronger than Base Goku, Base Vegeta or Freeza, at any point. The only thing that I saw was Bulma saying Gohan could easily defeat Freeza, but that naturally would include him going Super Saiyan, since Freeza now doesn't even need to transform to defeat a regular Super Saiyan.

You need to see episode 22. It's clear as day Gohan is stronger than Goku and Vegeta in base (Pre God stuff).

Gohan is a weakling, you're using circular logic

[Neon Z]

I'm also asking me the same question. I didn't see anyone in Dragon Ball Super implying Base Gohan is stronger than Base Goku, Base Vegeta or Freeza, at any point. The only thing that I saw was Bulma saying Gohan could easily defeat Freeza, but that naturally would include him going Super Saiyan, since Freeza now doesn't even need to transform to defeat a regular Super Saiyan.

You need to see episode 22. It's clear as day Gohan is stronger than Goku and Vegeta in base (Pre God stuff).

Gohan is a weakling, you're using circular logic

He's probably referencing Beerus' statement about Base Goku being unable to take on Freeza (and Goku's answer to that being turning into a SSJ, rather than just powering up in base).

[Bullza]

Really? How do you know that?

Well he'd have to be. If base Gohan is stronger than Piccolo, Piccolo is stronger than Frieza and Frieza is stronger than base Goku who'd be about the same as base Vegeta then yeah

Base Gohan > Base Goku/Vegeta

[Khin]

Whats the problem with Base Gohan being stronger than Base Goku/Vegeta? there is really no problem with it,just people making things complicated.

[Hugo Boss]

The problem is that nowhere in Dragon Ball Super it is implied Piccolo or Base Gohan can defeat Freeza. We only have one statement about Gohan being able to do this and the statement alone isn't clear about in which form Gohan could do it. As far as the scene goes Gohan is the only one of the 5-men group that could defeat Freeza if the latter hadn't powered up so much. Even Tagoma, who became the strongest warrior of Freeza's army for minutes, didn't get a clear statement about how he compares to Freeza's old self, we just have him as superior to Ginyu Force. Things get complicated when associating the current strength chart with that of previous arcs. Really, if people have Piccolo or Gohan in high regard in terms of strength they should avoid Dragon Ball Super.

[Birusu16]

Whats the problem with Base Gohan being stronger than Base Goku/Vegeta? there is really no problem with it,just people making things complicated.

There is no problem. It's just people complaining because it doesn't align with their own views.

[AvatarReiko]

It seems to me that power levels in Super are all over the place.

On a side note, what is this I am hearing about Ginyu Togama? Wasn't Ginyu a frog the last time we saw him? Better yet, how on earth is he able to go up against MSSJ Gohan? I am guessing he is a prodigy as well?

[LightBing]

The problem is that nowhere in Dragon Ball Super it is implied Piccolo or Base Gohan can defeat Freeza. We only have one statement about Gohan being able to do this and the statement alone isn't clear about in which form Gohan could do it. As far as the scene goes Gohan is the only one of the 5-men group that could defeat Freeza if the latter hadn't powered up so much. Even Tagoma, who became the strongest warrior of Freeza's army for minutes, didn't get a clear statement about how he compares to Freeza's old self, we just have him as superior to Ginyu Force. Things get complicated when associating the current strength chart with that of previous arcs. Really, if people have Piccolo or Gohan in high regard in terms of strength they should avoid Dragon Ball Super.

You can't isolate Super from the rest of the series. The story picks up after the Boo Saga, unless said otherwise the characters still have(at least) the power they had before. We know for a fact Piccolo is stronger than Freeza before his training. Tagoma defeats Piccolo easily, that's a statement of strength that puts him above Freeza previous strength.

It seems to me that power levels in Super are all over the place.

On a side note, what is this I am hearing about Ginyu Togama? Wasn't Ginyu a frog the last time we saw him? Better yet, how on earth is he able to go up against MSSJ Gohan? I am guessing he is a prodigy as well?

Apparently Ginyu powered up Tagoma's body even more after changing with him. Jaco mentions something like Ginyu being able to bring one's power out, something like that. When Herms updates the Facts thread, the line will probably be there.

[Bullza]

All Ginyu did was bring out Tagoma's full powers which he was previously hiding when he fought Piccolo.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Things get complicated when associating the current strength chart with that of previous arcs.

What are you talking about? Piccolo is probably stronger than 2nd Form Cell since the Cell Games, and he never stopped training according to Toriyama, so he didn't get weaker. Base Goku pre-SSG was weaker than Full Power Freeza, while Piccolo was much, much stronger than Full Power Freeza. Tagoma was at Zarbon & Dodoria level, but after his training, he became much stronger than Piccolo, and as strong as FnF base Gohan. So, FnF Gohan is stronger than Piccolo, as well as base Goku & Vegeta from the beginning of BoG.

Nothing here is complicated. Super isn't a reboot, it's the continuation of the Majin Boo arc, which is why everything from the manga/anime still applies in Super.