Unpopular DB opinions

[Tian]

The Big Green dub isn't awful. The problem with a lot of the voices is that they are unfitting and rushed, not necessarily bad.

I think it could've been a better dub, only if they hadn't voice-matched the French dub voices and AB Groupe cared enough to give the cast and staff some context of the franchise.

David Gasman could've been a somewhat decent Goku, as heard briefly in Z movie 2
and in the GT special.

But unfortunately, he had to voice-match Patrick Borg's deep voice in most of the dub (Curiously enough, in the French dub of the GT special, Goku was voiced by the late Thierry Mercier, which explains why David sounds REALLY different there.)

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

But unfortunately, he had to voice-match Patrick Borg's deep voice in most of the dub

Yeah, as Funimation showed with their original season 3 dub voice matching is never a good idea, as it comes off unnatural and forced. Karl Willems said in one of the Anime Time Machine livestreams he goes for a character match rather than a voice match, which I think is the better approach. As you say context for the characters is important because that way the actor can find a voice that's natural to them and true to the character they are playing.

Curiously enough, in the French dub of the GT special, Goku was voiced by the late Thierry Mercier, which explains why David sounds REALLY different there.)

Oh, I didn't know this. I've actually been curious about the French dub of the GT special because Big Green's dub differs from the rest of their work on Dragon Ball in other ways. For example Goku and Vegeta's race is referred to as saiyans rather than "space warriors" and is ironically pronounced correctly.

I unfortunately don't know any French, but I'd be interested in seeing the scripts for their dub of the special translated to see how similar it is to the Big Green dub's dialogue. I suspect they would be quite similar though.

Funnily enough I've always thought David Gasman's Goku in the GT special sounded a lot like Lex Lang in the Bang Zoom dub of Super, which is some coincidence considering how obscure both dubs are and the fact they were made over 10 years apart from one another.

[Hellspawn28]

I think Goku killing Baby Vegeta would have been interesting. Having Goku kill Vegeta because there was no choice. Unless their souls got split off, I don't think Porunga could bring back Vegeta without Baby inside his body.

[Scsigs]

So......like the first chapter?

You know what I mean. You're right though. I should've probably specified when the series introduced the more overt focus on the martial arts since it WAS there from the beginning.

The more overt focus on martial arts was still the second arc. I dunno, even if people didn't think Dragon Ball "got good" until the switch to more martial arts that's still pretty early into the series run.

True. It just goes to show that some people don't know what they're talking about.

But unfortunately, he had to voice-match Patrick Borg's deep voice in most of the dub

Yeah, as Funimation showed with their original season 3 dub voice matching is never a good idea, as it comes off unnatural and forced. Karl Willems said in one of the Anime Time Machine livestreams he goes for a character match rather than a voice match, which I think is the better approach. As you say context for the characters is important because that way the actor can find a voice that's natural to them and true to the character they are playing.

I think this is the best approach to character dubbing as well. I mean, Franky in One Piece has a very different voice tone in English compared with the Japanese & it still works because it fits him. Dragon Ball also has more examples in the English dubs of the shows & movies than just the original version of the season 3 DBZ dub than just changing from the Canadian cast tot he Texas one. Chris Ayres has been my favorite recast of the Kai dub because his voice fits Freeza a LOT better than Linda Young's voice for him (which was just a voice match to the Canadian actress, which was also a miscast, imo) because he fits the character so much better. To the point where Daman Mills' voice for Freeza is an impersonation of Ayres' voice with a slight twist on it with taking influence from some of the other actors as well in terms of performance. Both took a bit to grow into the role, but when they perfected their voices for it, they fit so well.

Curiously enough, in the French dub of the GT special, Goku was voiced by the late Thierry Mercier, which explains why David sounds REALLY different there.)

Oh, I didn't know this. I've actually been curious about the French dub of the GT special because Big Green's dub differs from the rest of their work on Dragon Ball in other ways. For example Goku and Vegeta's race is referred to as saiyans rather than "space warriors" and is ironically pronounced correctly.

I unfortunately don't know any French, but I'd be interested in seeing the scripts for their dub of the special translated to see how similar it is to the Big Green dub's dialogue. I suspect they would be quite similar though.

Funnily enough I've always thought David Gasman's Goku in the GT special sounded a lot like Lex Lang in the Bang Zoom dub of Super, which is some coincidence considering how obscure both dubs are and the fact they were made over 10 years apart from one another.

The Big Green dub is, largely, a translation of the French dub with English speaking actors based in France from what I know. Though, there was clearly a rushedness to it as the scripts were over-stuffed with dialogue with no care for timing or lipflaps, the actors weren't great & got bad voice direction, & the production was clearly just done to capitalize on Z's growing fanbase in the English-speaking markets. I'm pretty surprised that AB didn't farm out the dubbing of the movies & specials to Canada like they did the rest of Z to save money on licensing the Texas dub.
And, in the dubs, they usually translated "Saiyans" as "Saiya people." I think this is a remnant of the French dub, but it may just be a more literally translation of "Saiya-jin," with the "jin" suffix meaning "people."

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I'm pretty surprised that AB didn't farm out the dubbing of the movies & specials to Canada like they did the rest of Z to save money on licensing the Texas dub.

AB had nothing to do with the Westwood dub's production, they only distributed it in Europe. Its a common misconception that AB were involved with the creation of that dub, but there's really no evidence they were.

The AB Distribution logo appeared at the end of the Westwood dub's credits in Europe but that was never the case in Canada. In fact the UK broadcasts featured AB's logo at the end of the credits for all of Dragon Ball Z including the Saban and inhouse dubs, but that was because they were the European license holder, not the producer of all these dubs.

Conversely everything points to Ocean being behind the Westwood dub as that dub uses music and sound effects from their library, Funimation-based scripts (which were likely a perk of the working business relationship both companies had). If AB had anything to do with the Westwood dub's production it probably would have the Kikuchi score and scripts and voices based on the French dub, like Big Green, but Westwood Z has none of that, because it was a separate production AB acquired the rights to.

We also know when it came time to dub original Dragon Ball and GT it was Ken Morrison (the head of Ocean) not anyone from AB's decision to farm the voicework out to Calgary, because ultimately it was a production of the Ocean Group recorded mainly at Airwave Sound Design.

[BernardoCairo]

I think Orange Piccolo is a great transformation. While it's not as interesting as Super Saiyan or Ultra Instinct, it's a solid upgrade for Piccolo. The design is unique and stands out, unlike some other forms from Super, and the way he achieved it is fitting. If anyone deserves to use the Dragon Balls for power, it’s Piccolo. Plus, it creates an interesting contrast between the Piccolo we know now, who sought strength to protect others, and Piccolo Daimaoh, who selfishly used the Dragon Balls to gain power. Think about it: Piccolo Daimaoh made a selfish wish and killed Shenron, while present-day Piccolo made a selfless wish and was respected by Shenron, who granted him more power in return. I like that.
People don’t like Beast Gohan, and I understand that, but I don’t think it’s fair to lump Orange Piccolo in with him. In fact, Super Hero could have been much better if they had stuck with the original idea and not chosen to share Piccolo's spotlight with Gohan.

[Zephyr]

I think Orange Piccolo is a great transformation. While it's not as interesting as Super Saiyan or Ultra Instinct, it's a solid upgrade for Piccolo. The design is unique and stands out, unlike some other forms from Super, and the way he achieved it is fitting. If anyone deserves to use the Dragon Balls for power, it’s Piccolo. Plus, it creates an interesting contrast between the Piccolo we know now, who sought strength to protect others, and Piccolo Daimaoh, who selfishly used the Dragon Balls to gain power. Think about it: Piccolo Daimaoh made a selfish wish and killed Shenron, while present-day Piccolo made a selfless wish and was respected by Shenron, who granted him more power in return. I like that.
People don’t like Beast Gohan, and I understand that, but I don’t think it’s fair to lump Orange Piccolo in with him. In fact, Super Hero could have been much better if they had stuck with the original idea and not chosen to share Piccolo's spotlight with Gohan.

The only criticism of the form that I do agree with is that Piccolo simply asking for a powerup is kinda lame. It would be more fun if this was the fruit of all of the training he'd been doing. Or, something that just not popped into my head, if his wish was still the same, but he had to battle many powerful foes along the way in order to acquire the Dragon Balls to make the wish in the first place.

[sunsetshimmer]

I like Piccolo getting some new form after all these years, but i don't like:
-How he got it without effort, just by literally asking for it
-How strong he randomly became, just like every Super character with bs power up. Apparently all these years of Goku & Vegeta training means nothing cause everyone including Frieza can easily catch up with little to no effort
-How it's randomly orange. Would be better if he simply got bulkier or ligther/more yellowish like his "form" between base and orange. That color change was totally random and just like previous issue - applies to entire Super. Everyone just randomly changing colors and getting power ups

Piccolo becoming stronger by fusing with other namekians was perfect and fitting for him. Although i realize it wouldn't make sense to just randomly keep him fusing with new namekians all the time. Still, there were better ways to introduce new form to him.

[BernardoCairo]

The only criticism of the form that I do agree with is that Piccolo simply asking for a powerup is kinda lame. It would be more fun if this was the fruit of all of the training he'd been doing. Or, something that just not popped into my head, if his wish was still the same, but he had to battle many powerful foes along the way in order to acquire the Dragon Balls to make the wish in the first place.

I don’t really mind the wish since it parallels Piccolo Daimaoh, as I mentioned earlier. Still, it would have been interesting to see him fight for the Dragon Balls. Imagine him sneaking into the Red Ribbon Army base to retrieve the last one. That could have been really cool.
He’s the only character I’m okay with using the Dragon Balls for that, though. Granolah and Gas, on the other hand, were both terrible in this regard.

-How strong he randomly became, just like every Super character with bs power up. Apparently all these years of Goku & Vegeta training means nothing cause everyone including Frieza can easily catch up with little to no effort
-How it's randomly orange. Would be better if he simply got bulkier or ligther/more yellowish like his "form" between base and orange. That color change was totally random and just like previous issue - applies to entire Super. Everyone just randomly changing colors and getting power ups

Piccolo being that strong just makes sense to me. He’s the Super Namekian, never stopped training, never had his potential fully unlocked before, and is essentially a "fusion". It doesn’t make sense for anyone on Earth, outside of Goku and Vegeta, to be stronger than him, especially 17 and Gohan.
If you follow the manga, he’s been getting stronger with each arc. We saw that he was already on a whole other level of power after training with Gohan in the Moro arc.
About the orange color, I don’t mind it. In fact, I think it looks better than most Saiyajin forms in terms of visuals. Plus, it’s tied to the Dragon Balls themselves, which adds a nice layer. The transition from green to yellowish to orange is a cool touch. Honestly, I don’t think a buffed green Piccolo would have been as exciting.

[Zephyr]

The only criticism of the form that I do agree with is that Piccolo simply asking for a powerup is kinda lame. It would be more fun if this was the fruit of all of the training he'd been doing. Or, something that just not popped into my head, if his wish was still the same, but he had to battle many powerful foes along the way in order to acquire the Dragon Balls to make the wish in the first place.

I don’t really mind the wish since it parallels Piccolo Daimaoh, as I mentioned earlier. Still, it would have been interesting to see him fight for the Dragon Balls. Imagine him sneaking into the Red Ribbon Army base to retrieve the last one. That could have been really cool.
He’s the only character I’m okay with using the Dragon Balls for that, though. Granolah and Gas, on the other hand, were both terrible in this regard.

That is true with the Daimao parallels. I don't mind the wish in and of itself, since he is simply asking for thing that the Namekian Grand Elder does for people. Namekians doing Namekian things, and all that.

I don't mind it as much with Granola and Gas since they were never Goku's primary martial arts rival, so them seeking a free powerup doesn't feel like as much of a betrayal of their former drive. They're just new guys who want revenge, and are doing the bidding of their older brother, respectively.

[WittyUsername]

I’d argue that characters like Gohan and Piccolo more or less go refute the supposed theme of the series about the importance of hard work. Gohan in particular
is established as someone who regularly neglects his training, but his genes and anger issues more than make up for it. Meanwhile, a character like Tenshinhan seemingly trains his ass off on a regular basis, but he’s apparently not even the strongest Earthling in the series.

Of course, even Goku and Vegeta in the original manga were no strangers to receiving convenient power-ups that didn’t require any actual training. The Ultra Divine Water and the “zenkai boosts” during the Freeza arc come to mind.

[MasenkoHA]

I’d argue that characters like Gohan and Piccolo more or less go refute the supposed theme of the series about the importance of hard work. Gohan in particular
is established as someone who regularly neglects his training, but his genes and anger issues more than make up for it. Meanwhile, a character like Tenshinhan seemingly trains his ass off on a regular basis, but he’s apparently not even the strongest Earthling in the series.

Of course, even Goku and Vegeta in the original manga were no strangers to receiving convenient power-ups that didn’t require any actual training. The Ultra Divine Water and the “zenkai boosts” during the Freeza arc come to mind.

Eh not really though.

The fandom overblows this stuff. The series consistently show natural talents, being genetically blessed, and getting free handouts only gets a character so far.

Gohan may be naturally more stronger than his father because he's a Saiyan/Earthling hybrid but he still had to train with Piccolo for a year to be a useful asset to the Dragon Team. Even when his anger unlocks Super Saiyan 2 there's no reason to think he would have gotten to that point without his 3 year training with his dad and Piccolo and then one year in one day training with his dad. When he stops training he gets significantly weaker at 16 than he was at age 10 and even when an Elder Kaioshin Machina puts him back on top he's almost immediately discarded by Majin Boo figuring out how to one up him.

The Zenkai boost only got Goku and Vegeta so far. Goku figured out how to exploit them but he still trained his body hard to get to that point. Vegeta relied solely on zenkai boost and once he gets his shit rocked by Freeza he learns he should start training and not solely rely on being a Saiyan Elite.

Even the Super God Water, by far the worst example of the original manga handing a character the win button on a golden platter, is followed up by Goku getting clowned by God's Minstrel Show and realizing he'll need to actually train to stand a chance against Piccolo's reincarnation.

It's really no different than someone being naturally athletic or artistic but they still need to work hard to hone those skills.

[John Pannozzi]

Does anyone think the High School/Great Saiyaman Arc-era filler storyline about the kidnapped baby pterodactyl/kaiju named Chibi ( "Chobi" in the FUNimation dub) might be inspired by the 1967 Japanese monster movie Gappa?

I swear, Chibi and his parents even sort look like the Gappas.

[BernardoCairo]

I don't mind it as much with Granola and Gas since they were never Goku's primary martial arts rival, so them seeking a free powerup doesn't feel like as much of a betrayal of their former drive. They're just new guys who want revenge, and are doing the bidding of their older brother, respectively.

For me, the main issue with them is that they didn’t wish for more power, they wished to be the strongest. This sets a bad precedent where anyone could make the same wish and become unbeatable. But I guess the point was that, unlike Piccolo’s, their wish was shallow and selfish, which ultimately led to their defeat and, in Gas’s case, his demise.

I’d argue that characters like Gohan and Piccolo more or less go refute the supposed theme of the series about the importance of hard work.

How so? Piccolo never stopped training and clearly shares Goku and Vegeta's mindset of constantly striving to get stronger. He had just as much potential as they did, yet he went years without a single transformation or major power-up, just regular training.

[WittyUsername]

I’d argue that characters like Gohan and Piccolo more or less go refute the supposed theme of the series about the importance of hard work. Gohan in particular
is established as someone who regularly neglects his training, but his genes and anger issues more than make up for it. Meanwhile, a character like Tenshinhan seemingly trains his ass off on a regular basis, but he’s apparently not even the strongest Earthling in the series.

Of course, even Goku and Vegeta in the original manga were no strangers to receiving convenient power-ups that didn’t require any actual training. The Ultra Divine Water and the “zenkai boosts” during the Freeza arc come to mind.

Eh not really though.

The fandom overblows this stuff. The series consistently show natural talents, being genetically blessed, and getting free handouts only gets a character so far.

Gohan may be naturally more stronger than his father because he's a Saiyan/Earthling hybrid but he still had to train with Piccolo for a year to be a useful asset to the Dragon Team. Even when his anger unlocks Super Saiyan 2 there's no reason to think he would have gotten to that point without his 3 year training with his dad and Piccolo and then one year in one day training with his dad. When he stops training he gets significantly weaker at 16 than he was at age 10 and even when an Elder Kaioshin Machina puts him back on top he's almost immediately discarded by Majin Boo figuring out how to one up him.

The Zenkai boost only got Goku and Vegeta so far. Goku figured out how to exploit them but he still trained his body hard to get to that point. Vegeta relied solely on zenkai boost and once he gets his shit rocked by Freeza he learns he should start training and not solely rely on being a Saiyan Elite.

Even the Super God Water, by far the worst example of the original manga handing a character the win button on a golden platter, is followed up by Goku getting clowned by God's Minstrel Show and realizing he'll need to actually train to stand a chance against Piccolo's reincarnation.

It's really no different than someone being naturally athletic or artistic but they still need to work hard to hone those skills.

Ok, but even following that line of reasoning, I’d argue that SH pretty much invalidates all of that. Piccolo just casually uses the Dragon Balls to obtain godlike power, and Gohan suddenly gets his own extremely powerful (and ridiculous looking) transformation simply by getting mad, even though the film established that he had once again been neglecting his training.

[ABED]

That wasn't my reading. I don't think it was saying Gohan was neglecting his training. He's just not doing it from sun up to sundown.

[MasenkoHA]

That wasn't my reading. I don't think it was saying Gohan was neglecting his training. He's just not doing it from sun up to sundown.

Right I was under the impression it was still following ToP which had a whole character arc of Gohan realizing he can be a scholar and a warrior. He was just more invested in the former

At any rate whenever a character in Dragon Ball gets a free handout its pretty much always followed up with them soon realizing they still need to train or getting their ass handed to them by someone stronger looping back to still needing to train. Or in Gohan's case, if we're still running on Super being canon to the epilogue, he'll neglect his training again and go back to being weak hidden anger power ups be damned.

[Dbzk1999]

That wasn't my reading. I don't think it was saying Gohan was neglecting his training. He's just not doing it from sun up to sundown.

That’s similar to what I got out of it. Gohan was doing enough training to keep his body in shape and wasn’t weaker but his warrior mindset/instinct was becoming a bit dulled (and I’d say that’s more related to Gohan’s general personality). He pretty much says he’s been training still (when he catches Piccolo’s first punch and revealed he’s been teaching himself the Makankosappo at the end of the film)

[Majin Buu]

Yeah. The big twist at the end of the film is that he actually wasn't neglecting his training as he was teaching himself the Makankosappo in secret.

[TheMikado]

Oh we’re back to do this again?

Unpopular opinion, Toriyama left to his own devices sans editors was not a very good writer. Character designs in general remain timeless regardless of story.

I believe he’s an ideas and concepts guy, not necessarily make great literary connections and themes type.